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Running Subaru Dual AVCS Heads


scifisubi

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I've setup the trigger values as indicated by the online help for subaru quad avcs and checked those many times but I'll give it another look.   I'll try and search the forum again to try and find the other person who is having this problem that you are helping with, sorry you are having to do things twice for two different people. 

Dont just go off the offset values quote in help as all engines vary a bit.  There is a "Cam Angle Test" function in the software to determine the correct values for your engine.  Use a test pulse count of 3 for the intake cams and 2 for the exhaust cams test.  The procedure is well explained in the help file.  

The other user I was working with is via our tech support system.  I cant remember all the details but it feels similar.

 

Update:

Today I ran a completely new set of wires to the RH Intake AVCS Cam Sensor all the way from the sensor to the ecu...still no dice though.  Is it possible that if the timing were off a tooth or so I would get a "no signal" error on the ecu?  I would think it would still be seeing a signal if this were the case.  I swapped the sensor for a known good one so that should rule that out.  This is most puzzling.  Thanks for the help.

The "no signal" error means exactly that - the ECU is not seeing any signal. If it is seeing the signal but the wrong timing or number of teeth etc, then you will get the "cannot sync" error.

I dont know these engines well, but take a look at the picture linked in this post: http://forums.linkecu.com/index.php?/topic/4931-wiring-camshaft-angle-sensor-subaru-ej25/&do=findComment&comment=29659  Its pretty odd this picture shows a different pinout on the LH vs RH sensor.  Do you know anyone with an oscilloscope?  Where abouts are you in the world?

 

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I am the other person with similar problems

i have my LH intake wired as trigger 2

My RH intake is wired as D2 ( D1 used as ignition shut down deals to re set the idle motor)

The RH intake seems to work fine.    The actual follows the planned and the solenoid % changes

the LH (trigger 2) shows no movement

the exhaust are doing the same thing you are getting

one no signal and one bounces back and forth between no sync and a green screen

all of these are 3 wire sensors and at least the exhaust are magnetic as they will pick

up metal shavings

 

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I'm in the United States.  I actually saw that wiring picture when I was browsing last evening looking for a solution but the way I read that they actually don't appear to be going to different positions as the pins are still numbered the same, they are just re-ordered possibly so that the wires could be drawn more neatly?  Here is the diagram I've been using and it corresponds with the factory wiring harness that I have in my possession, Pin 1 is always power, and pin 3 is always ground, the middle pin 2 is signal,  the post omitted the bottom part of the diagram where the actual plug is shown.  Joemobile, thanks for joining in my thread!  I was trying to find you last night so I could compare notes...maybe between you and I and Adam we can all get this figured out together.  Please keep posting if you have any progress and I'll do the same.

Steve

Gen IV - Wiring 225.pdf

Edit:  Joe, since you are having problems with your LH Trigger and I am having problems with my RH DI why don't you look at the base configuration I posted above and see if it is the same as yours because that is working on mine.

Edited by scifisubi
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Now have 3 of 4 cam sensors working

inlet LT as trigger 2

inlet RT resister on falling

exhaust L H resistor on and rising. Still no signal

exhaust RH resistor on and rising. Now have signal

still no actual variation on inlet LT showing

the solenoid input in run time values stays at 60 %

could be solenoid not working?

still cannot put negative values in the exhaust table.    Was told a flaw in the G4 programming made you put them in positive but the actual movement is negative

do not know how to test this concept. 

I believe my 2008 heads have all optical/hall sensors rather than the optical/hall intakes and reluctor exhaust on the Subaru quad AVCS system Link forces us to use.

I assume there is only one inlet table for both inlets and only one for both exhaust ?

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Now have 3 of 4 cam sensors working

inlet LT as trigger 2

inlet RT resister on falling

exhaust L H resistor on and rising. Still no signal

exhaust RH resistor on and rising. Now have signal

I would try swapping the wires at the ECU for your Ex Lh & Ex RH, dont change any settings just swap the wires at the ECU pins.  If the "no signal" error moves from Ex LH to Ex RH than it confirms wiring/sensor issue.

 

 

still no actual variation on inlet LT showing

I think I have already mentioned this on to you via tech support - assuming all electrical/mechanical hardware is working, then this could possibly be your offset set wrong.    

still cannot put negative values in the exhaust table.    Was told a flaw in the G4 programming made you put them in positive but the actual movement is negative

do not know how to test this concept. 

It works for me.  You might have to be connected to an ECU (and make sure it is on 4.10.2 firmware):

YV2pkAp.png

 

I believe my 2008 heads have all optical/hall sensors rather than the optical/hall intakes and reluctor exhaust on the Subaru quad AVCS system Link forces us to use

We dont "force" you to use anything.  Optical, hall or reluctor or any mix of either are perfectly acceptable.

 

 

I assume there is only one inlet table for both inlets and only one for both exhaust ?

Yes.  Do you really want to tune the left side of the engine different to the right?

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I am not being forced, I agree, I was referring to reading that no maps for the 2008  Subaru STI with 4 hall type sensors had been developed.

No I don't want to run them differently but in trying to find out why my trigger 2 advance was not working I was wondering if I needed a separate table for each cam-----Mt tables were all 0s and I was wondering if I needed 4 tables or just the 2.  I am showing the sensor working and the desired table settings moving with rpm but no change in the actual angle and the solenoid is at 60%-----sounds like the signal is going out but no reaction from the solenoid, no oil pressure, or a stuck cam advance mechanism.

Checking wiring, sensors and coil continuities now.

Thanks for replies

Joe

 

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Exciting Update!  After spending most of the weekend with my multimeter checking wiring I have finally gotten the avcs completely working!  Unfortunately this might not help you Joe but here's what I did:

1st:  To fix the intake problem, I found out that I most likely have a burned out pin on my ecu.  I was using DI2...for the intake RH sensor and never getting a signal...I really had a hard time troubleshooting this because of the way vts software seems to handle the runtime display...the way I would trouble shoot is to swap the wires, and then start up the ecu and see if the error persisted, and it always did.  What I didn't realize is that if you reconfigure the ecu inputs it doesn't reset the runtime values until you cycle the power, so for instance, if you have DI2 as vvt intake lh and then swap it to vvt intake rh it will still say vvt intake lh no signal even though it should say vvt rh no signal.  I don't know if the link software behaves like this but I learned the hard way that you need to cycle the power on the ecu after changing the settings and before checking the wiring.

2nd:  To fix the exhaust problem was easy but tedious, I checked every wire I had run with a multimeter from the sensor pigtail to the ecu...I found out that I had mislabeled the right and the left sensors on the harness...doh!!!  So this was easy to fix by simply re-configuring the ecu.  

Like I said earlier, this may not really help you out, but maybe you can use this to try and find your solution.  I am going to continue to monitor this thread so if you keep posting I'll try and help you out if I have any ideas.  

In the mean time I was using pin number 46 as digital input 2...either this is the wrong pin or mine is burned out, Adam, can you confirm that this is the correct pin?  I'm hoping maybe I had the wrong pin but I guess if it's wrecked then I can live with it.  

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Adam, can you confirm that this is the correct pin?  I'm hoping maybe I had the wrong pin but I guess if it's wrecked then I can live with it.  

Sorry, I missed the fact you were using a plugin.  Maybe some confusion with Joe's similar problem...

DI2 on that ecu has special hardware connected internally (a strong pull down resistor) which is to detect the A/C request switch that is normally connected to that pin.  It can possibly still be used for switch type inputs but that pin will not function correctly for frequency type inputs as you have learnt.

@joemobile  Is your ECU a plugin too? 

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No.   Mine is a stand alone

last night I switched the intake solenoid and still have the RT working and the LT not showing movement

tonight I will loosen the oil line bolt slightly and see if there is any seepage.  Don't remember if I have a filter screen in that line

tapped the back of the cam sprocket a couple times with a screw driver in case it is stuck

still have not found problem with the one exhaust sensor that does not work

started re entering the offset changes on the three that do work but the rt intake did not stay changed 

was late so I must not have gotten a proper store or I need to do a power off to lock it

will send update if I find anything tonight

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Latest

had high hopes   Pulled banjo bolt on left oil control valve to check the tiny filter and found it with a small amount of dirt and a collapsed screen

pulled it and semi tightened bolt turned engine over a few seconds and got plenty of oil flow

still no movement shown on the LH intake cam on trigger 2

the other problem is the LT exhaust that is not sensing.   The signal wire is in center and the 12 v + in on one side.  Trying to find which side in the plug should be + for a 3wire hall sensor

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Joe,  

Check out this diagram...it shows the location of the positive and negative and signal wires on the sensors.  Have you tried to use the "test pwm" function for your solenoids?  If not maybe give that a try...you should hear a low pitched hum/clicking when you engage each one, at least then you might be able to rule out some items there.  

plugs.PNG

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Just a thought...what heads are you using?  W25, W20, Z20?  I know on mine that when I removed the cam sprockets one of the springs popped out of the pin...if the spring isn't seated correctly the system won't work.  Might be worth thinking about.  

cam gear.jpg

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All the sensors show they are working (switched power and ground on one sensor plug.

Drilled and tapped the banjo bolts to install a pressure gauge-----80 PSI when oil is cool (70 degree F)

Ran the PWM test at frequency of 20----all 4 solenoids clicked-------reset to 250

then set the trigger LT intake to 20 with engine running and when I throttled to 1600 RPM I could feel it working.

This had brought me to the likely hood that something mechanical is keeping the gear itself from working.

Same for the exhaust on the left side.

So I have both the right working but both the left are not the LT intake shows 1-2 degrees movement when the RT intake is at 12 table and actual.

I read where one of the tuners in the US says the cam gears are not designed perfectly and if the outer bolts are tightened with the parts very slightly miss aligned the gear advance will bind and prevent movement.

The other software problem remains-----the exhaust will NOT allow negative numbers to be entered.  A link dealer in the US said he remembered a situation with the G$ extreme where the programming forced you to put in positive numbers but they would act as negatives---any one ever heard this?

It's time to pull an engine--possibly drill some bolts and resolve an issue.

 

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The other software problem remains-----the exhaust will NOT allow negative numbers to be entered.  A link dealer in the US said he remembered a situation with the G$ extreme where the programming forced you to put in positive numbers but they would act as negatives---any one ever heard this?

I have attached a screenshot a few posts further up this page that shows the G4 exhaust target table will accept -ve numbers.  Can you attach your map so I can take a look at it?

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Adam,

Could you clarify how the cam test angle function works?  I went through the steps in the guide but I'm a little confused about how the test pulse count works.  I set it to 1, but I get varying numbers on the display, as I increase this, about 3 the numbers start to steady out so I can read them.  If I am looking at the runtime display should I be reading the offset via cam angle #1 (ATDC)?  For instance I am selecting LH Inlet cam test, which is trigger 2, at 3 test pulse count I have numbers in cam angle #1-3 but am not sure which one is the offset value.  I am thinking that my offsets must be wrong because I am green across the board in the vvt runtime list until I start revving the engine, then I start to get error flags and my vvt test function is always lit in red.  Thanks for the help.

Edit:  Looks like I need to always use the lowest value in the list of values...

Edited by scifisubi
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The "test pulse count" is the number of teeth on the cam seen by the sensor.  Up the top of this page i said:

 Use a test pulse count of 3 for the intake cams and 2 for the exhaust cams test.  The procedure is well explained in the help file.  

 

You choose the lowest value reported in the cam angle test as the value to input as your offset for the Trig 2 VVT or DI.

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Thanks Adam!

Sorry to make you quote yourself...I guess my reading and listening skills haven't been that good lately.  

Joe:  Any luck on your front?  Did you end up pulling the whole motor out?  I was thinking you might be able to get away with simply pulling the timing covers off and removing the metal covers for the cam gears that way.  

 

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I got the vvt triggers all calibrated but I'm still getting an intermittent error from one of them.  Everything is green during idle and revving, but as soon as the rpms decrease and the motor gets close to idle again I sometimes get an error on the LH Intake VVT.  Would this be indicative of a sensor issue?  Thanks.

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I got the vvt triggers all calibrated but I'm still getting an intermittent error from one of them.  Everything is green during idle and revving, but as soon as the rpms decrease and the motor gets close to idle again I sometimes get an error on the LH Intake VVT.  Would this be indicative of a sensor issue?  Thanks.

Give us a map and PC Log.

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I do see the LH intake error you are talking about popping up quite randomly but it doesnt seem to upset anything - the camshaft control is still tracking target quite well.  I would just ignore it if I were you, it may not be something we can fix easily.

 

Below I have marked the LH Intake errors but if you look at the position and target directly underneath there is no problem.

2FUB0kX.png

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