Wuppet
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Posts posted by Wuppet
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Hoping someone out there might be able to assist.I have a g4+ Thunder - looking to setup water meth injection primarily as a cooling/detonation suppressor - maybe later to allow more HP - it is just a streeter
Engine is a 496 Chrysler (approx 10.2:1) with GM 6/71 and joe blo low profile injector hat (kinda similar to bug catcher with 8 efi injectors inside) currently 3% underdriven and only making map of max 19psi, mgp approx 4.4 - getting very hot and getting some obvious detonation
No kits do what I want so I am going to build from parts - any suggestions on suppliers appreciated.
Plan is
2 injectors - 1 each side in the underside of the hat just behind butterflys - 90 degree adapters to dash 4 connectors, braided line back to T piece
Little lost from there as to whether I need a solenoid that I then PWM via SSR or whether I go straight to pump and pulse it - I cant see that I need to spend bucks on external controller when the ECU should be able to do it all.
AND
what do I do from the ECU to control it - how -what table - etc.
Would appreciate if someone can assist with suppliers and a how to for dummies! maybe an example table???
Cheers!
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Some feedback - I believe my issue was caused by noise on power line, I was drawing from same busbar as among other things the fuel pump.
I have now run power direct from battery via relay and some of the sensors that previously would not reach temp are working, whilst some are not I have had the same two that previously didn't work in it for a reasonable number of road tests and shed tests without failure
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36 minutes ago, Confused said:
I see that "Run when stalled" is disabled, which was my first thought - I've seen many sensors "killed" by sitting with ignition turned on, but not starting the engine, heating up the sensor, then when you finally start the engine, you throw cold, potentially damp air onto a very hot thin ceramic plate, shattering it.
How are the sensors themselves installed? What location, what orientation?
Will check that, these logs were from cold start, pretty sure that the ecu delays heating sensor until engine running
sensors installed just after header collector facing around 2 & 10 oclock downwards
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Hoping for assistance.
I have always had trouble with sensors failing, typically just dead no readings, put a new one in and off she goes again. at a guess 7-8 in last few years on a street car that is driven very little, although I play with combos a lot.
Thunder g4+ ecu
Latest setup is with 6/71 on the 496 - EFI through hat
1 of the sensors was not reporting so I replaced both with "cheapies" after deciding that the genuine (all previous) dont seem great - immediately nothing from both - I put the good one back in and still nothing.
After some research here a suggestion was to add all the error reporting parameters to try and determine what is happening.
Can see that I have probably been throwing good sensors in the bin, just cant see why.
I have again today checked the wiring on both sensors - each wire back to ecu plug (and to ground and each other pin to ensure no short somewhere) and the power is supplied via fused 30amp relay which is switched at ecu power on - checked that it is constant 12v
Got me stuffed!
I have attached map and log file whilst it had 1 dud sensor,another log is after replacing both, third is after putting "known good one" back in - in chronological order
Is the "pulsing on" and off (see lambda tab and log files) an indication that they are damaged?
Hoping you folks can have a look at the logs etc and offer some ideas.
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Wont start
in G4+
2 hours ago, Adamw said:Then your trigger 2 sync position should be set to "After Cyl #2".
Also be aware in "1 tooth per TDC" trigger mode, during cranking the ECU doesnt control advance at all - it fires the spark exactly on every crank trigger edge. This gives very stable spark timing when cranking, but it does mean your magnets/egdes need to be somewhere suitable - say 0-25BTDC would work for most engines. Based on your original offset in multitooth mode being -15, I think this means your crank edge occurs about 15BTDC, so it sounds like it is probably quite well placed for 1/tdc mode.
Once RPM is above 400RPM then the ecu will start controlling advance.
Thank you - was going a little crazy - bit confusing - I initially put the wiring for the coils into the ecu in firing order, then discovered they needed to be just in cylinder order, so I assumed that this would be the same.
I really appreciate your assistance
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Wont start
in G4+
Now Im really confused
Ive changed to 1 tooth per tdc with sync position after cyl#8 (No 2 piston, which is before piston 1)
V8 with Crank wheel with 4 magnets - hall effect sensor - Falling edge,
Cam - hall effect - falling edge - sync mode=cam pulse 1x (this physical unit produces output of "cam level" reading - half high, half low - am i right to think it will simply activate of falling edge as if it is one tooth?)
1 Magnet on trigger wheel aligns with TDC 1
Physical location of cam sensor - the "interrupter" exits the field (changing from 4v to 0) at a point approx 48 degrees BTDC this point is between pistons 2 & 1 in firing order
Physical location of crank sensor is such that the TDC magnet will pass it approx 28 degrees before reaching TDC
I have set base timing to 28 BTDC
It no go!
When I put timing light on the TDC mark is approx 180 from timing mark.
What am i doing wrong??
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Wont start
in G4+
Adam, you are indeed correct - the wiring for the jeep sync sensor is opposite to what is in wiring diagram
I now have running except with odd activation of the RPM limit - I have one log where the RPM limit activated twice in the first example rpm was at 5661 then 0.001sec later at 7500 which is the trigger point for the rpm limit i have set, just no way the RPM climbed that rapidly, I looked for this same jump in the second activation and zoomed right in there is no such jump (went from 5323 to 5366) and yet the activation occurred
Im thinking some sort of trigger issue so would like to check if I am correct in my thinking for the setup - trigger scope attached
I have a purple "cherry" sensor on crank trigger set to rising edge - v8 with 4 magnets on disc
Cam sync set to falling edge
Trigger set to multi-tooth
Timing - i have set cam sync so that breaker is exiting the sensor field as cylinder 1 is approaching TDC - am I correct to think that this is going to provide the falling edge? - oddly the positioning of this would occur approx 50% of the way between crank magnets which is not how it appears in scope.
The crank sensor will be in the window of magnet approx 30 BTDC
When I do the "set base timing" using 0 as reference i need to add -15 as the offset - possibly picking up magnet before but again timings dont make sense to me
Any ideas appreciated!
Could I set this combination trigger mode to 1 Tooth per TDC and set it to "after cylinder 2"???
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Wont start
in G4+
Folks,
Hoping for some assistance, ive looked at this for days and cant see the issue.
440 Mopar
Vehicle has been running fine - then wouldnt start with triggerscope showing no cam sync - previously had issue with dual sync distributor so i decided to replace.
Replaced with crank trigger (cherry unit - set to rising edge), cam sync sensor (stock 4.0 jeep unit - set to falling edge) and IGN1a coil for each plug.
Have tested that each coil fires in test mode.
trigger scope shows both signals although timing may not be ideal
Got to putting timing light on to check timing but not getting any firing.
Ive got to be missing something very basic just cant see it!
Any ideas?
Screen grab of trigger scope attached
Also - when i do a trigger scope and save it I only get part of image - is this due to screen resolution?
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Can anyone advise the manufacturer of the connectors used on the Thunder ECU.
Need to purchase additional pins - almost impossible without know what the connector is.
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Hoping for some advice on setup. G4 thunder 440 v8
Had vehicle running sequential injection with dual sync dizzy, single spark. Previously had turbos so even has fuel map boost dependant.
Just put 6/71 Roots blower on it, fabricated a plate with eight injectors between blower and bird catcher hat.
With the injectors all in close proximity do I need to be changing from sequential to multi-group? My thinking here is that the engine still requires the same amount of fuel just be getting mixed up a bit????
If I need to change what sort of changes should I be making overall to the fuel volume? Assuming that I can't fire injectors at same rate or will over fuel.
Also considering wiring in crank trigger which is already mounted, 4 magnet style which will obviously force the change to group injection, any thoughts or advice on this
Appreciate any words of wisdom
Cheers
Stew
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Where would i find instructions to do triggerscope
The rpm during cranking showing 0
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Hoping for some direction or advice.
Have Thunder running 440 mopar, single ignition output to msd6al2, using a fast dual sync distributor as trigger.
Bit of background that may or may not be related
Have had ongoing issue with msd blaster coils failing ( 4or5 lost count)and while back upgraded coil to ms hvc 2 coil this seemed to solve the issue.
Until yesterday when ignition again failed with no spark, swapped coil and worked again for long enough to get me a short distance before cutting out again.
Towed vehicle home and then tried again and it fired, swapped back to hvc coil and it worked too.
Was suspicious of the 6al2 box and tonight went to do some diagnostic, found car wouldn't start at all, tested the msd box by shorting signal wire and got spark so not it.
Would seem that msd box is not getting trigger signal from ecu and i am trying to figure out why - possibly the ecu not getting signal from the dual sync distributor.
I have logged attempting to start, just not sure how to look at the triggers to see if they are working, i assume that i could see the signal from each of the triggers and our signal to the ignition output - if i knew how
When initially turning over the fuel pump is triggered so thinking one of the triggers is atleast working.
Any assistance is much appreciated
Cheers
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Hoping for some advice, attached are some screen grabs - concerned about the lambda spike after deceleration from boost situation, obviously these are sufficient to activate my protection for high lambda.
What can I do to control such?
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Folks,
Thank you for advice, believe i will take a different course.
Haven't got temp sensor on to know how hot, but hot enough that can't touch lines and could hear fuel bubbling in tank, i assume boiling.
Main issue is underbonnet heat and location of fuel lines running close to headers, cannot see that i can relocate fuel lines which are already wrapped so will investigate wrapping headers. May need to introduce so sort of chiller as well.
Problem has really only presented on insanely hot days on long run, so not major issue
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Folks,
Hoping for assistance - My vehicle is suffering from dramatic fuel overheating and Im trying to figure out best way to limit such.
From instructions it would appear that a closed loop fuel pump control based on pressure would be the way to go, just got no idea how.
Fuel Pump is an intank version of the aeromotive a1000 - currently setup with regulator and return. - motor currently naturally aspirated/port injected 500cube hemi, soon to be boosted.
Can anyone assist with advice as to how to go about this? I have NFI and have looked at a heap of other posts and just cant make sense of them.
If I need an external pump controller, which one should I use?
and how should I wire it and configure ecu to control it?
Appreciate any thoughts.
Cheers
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done - let me know your thoughts
As mentioned this seems very similar to issue posted by Luis "Deceleration problem"
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Folks,
Hope you can assist, I have a seemingly random rpm drop which doesn't occur all the time.
Mainly notice it when coming off acceleration and rpm drops back to about 2000 then there is like a momentary dropout and back again, sometimes it will do this multiple times in reasonably quick succession.
caught it in a log file tonight have a look at log approx. 32:28 you will notice rpm drop - link to log file below
This seems very similar to recent posting from Luis "Deceleration problem" probably related
https://www.dropbox.com/s/u36jm3fmg8rf9dq/Log 2019-08-23 6%3B04%3B38 pm.llg?dl=0
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Adam,
Appreciate your assistance - hope i can request a bit more.
I have nil experience/knowledge of wiring CAN systems and have no idea what to do with physical wiring - can you advise?
I have a single signal wire that goes from the Autometer GPS Speedo interface to the speedometer - this interface module instructions say it is calibrated for 16,000ppm and outputs a 12v square wave
Appreciate any assistance you can offer.
Cheers
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Folks,
Hope you can assist.
I am trying to setup a lockout for Transbrake based on "any speed" to avoid accidental engagement.
Vehicle has Autometer speedo with GPS sensor.
Hoping you can suggest a method:
1.Use the sensor to provide speed input to the ecu (thunder)
2. Provide output for the speedo
3. Lockout the transbrake switch function if any speed detected
Appreciate any thoughts
Cheers
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I must be looking at something wrong.
2 screen grabs below - first is prior to disconnecting and disabling lambda 2, second is after - in both the graphed 5v is all over the place, the value below is stable, is this just "noise" inthe graphi ng
Will move that ground as well
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as the 5v fluctuation is new i looked for any changes, i had plugged the "suspect" o2 sensor back in, so i disabled it in ecu and unplugged it.
TPS on log is now stable, - this is odd as i had only just plugged it in before taking that last log, maybe disabling it in the ecu has done something additional.
will go back across everything related to that sensor line.
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MSD Grounded to post through firewall - as is ecu and relay banks on fuse board - heavy strap from post to engine - engine to battery
have attached latest log and trigger scope grab - are they what you are seeking?
This latest log shows massive fluctuation in the 5v line - if you look at about 2.4 - 3 the TPS at this period was at constant idle, all the jumps to 20% are "erronous"
Also attached photos under bonnet
Wiring enters via 50 deutsch plug to lower right of msd, with heavier wiring via another deutsch just to the left of it - wiring all bound together and stays low at back of engine to the valley, seperates to injectors/oil pressure sensor/idle control motor (disabled currently), rest of loom runs forward to TPS, water temp and dual sync dizzy
Coil is to right with high tension lead running along strut brace to dizzy
I am at a loss to explain the 5v line fluctations as they seem to be new
Any ideas?
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Gents,
I really appreciate your assistance with this thing - im really confused as to what is going on.
That last log was immediately after TPS calibration - have done so again along with map as well - as it did last time if engine isnt running the tps seems to be pretty much as one would expect.
The throttle body is an Aeroflow unit.
After recal of tps i took first log attached from cold engine, so you can see it jump a bit while warming but it pretty much was idling straight away - the big broad jumps in tps were at constant slight pedal. Watching this on "tuning" screen i could see dramatic jumps on the tps bar graph, there was absolutely no throttle movement.
once warmed properly i restarted log file and while running unbolted tps from throttle body (possibly took a few minutes) and this didnt make FA difference to what was happening.
Wiring runs from ecu to firewall into Deutsch 50 pin connector, from there to sensors +everything else, there is a MSD ignition and coil in close proximity (approx 4-6 inch) HV lead runs higher along a metal strut brace to distributor at front of engine.
im kinda stumped - any ideas?
Cheers!
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Believe that i have all idle control and enrichment disabled - please correct me if I'm wrong. Idles fine once warmed up.
The tps signal seems fine when idling and warmed up and has noise at part throttle,
Amy ideas on how to eradicate interference
TPS Delta & Accel Fuel Enrichment
in G4+
Posted
Hoping someone can clarify the time period in which a TPS delta change must occur to enact enrichment tables?
I have just converted from 98 to E85 and really cant get a handle on the Acceleration enrichment - seemed ok previously from a driveability point anyway.
My issue is a most of the time im not getting any enrichment resulting in lean periods until tps stabilises and then it levels to fuel map and seems ok ish - eg TPS change from 24.7 to 31.6% in 0.25 sec does not give any enrichment further climb to 42% over total of 1.1 sec still no enrichment - during this period Lambda climbs to 1.2 before then stabilising back to 0.98 which is pretty close to my target of 0.95 - total RPM change 2770 to 3315
Accel sens - 200
deadband 2%
hold 10
decay 4%
Is it just a case of the tps change isnt sufficiently quick to register as tps delta.
Log attached -great example at 3.34
Any advice appreciated
440 Plymouth Blown Tune - E85 tune 3rd Jan 2024.pclr
Log 2024-01-3 6;33;15 pm.llg