Apex Speed Tech

Hey guys, I'm not getting anywhere with this UTC. I followed these directions exactly, all I get is the Lambda1 value flickering occasionally from 0 to 6550 and back. Any ideas? Its a brand new LTC from MOTEC, a brand new AtomX from Link. Checked wiring, there are term resistors at both ends, nothing else on the bus, its at 55ohms.

Also could the 9.4V under cranking compound the issue? I have plenty of cars that crank around 10V but you have to be diligent with your dwell & inj battery offset settings.....

Thanks Adam. It was rock solid once we fixed the intake leak and re-sync'd the throttle bodies, I probably ran the car for another 30 min like that. They do share power with a 3 wire IAC value, but the controllers are conveniently mounted right next to the battery. So I'll just add a relay and fuse directly to the battery and use the existing +12V that's shared with the IAC on the term 85 side, with the term 86 side to ground. See any issues with that? Cheers, Neel

Nope, even easier. The car has individual throttle bodies with idle bleeds going to a common manifold. The mechanic who assembled everything left a large (8mm) vacuum port open under bank 1 which caused a huge leak, which he compensated for by adjusting the blades so one bank was completely sealed off while the other was drawing air through the leak. That bank was getting so much air the car still idled at 1500 RPM with 0 degrees of timing only running on 1/2 its cylinders. I got thrown off because I didn't realize the lambda heaters needed exhaust temp to help them get to 780 before they'd time out. Either way I learned something today: A non-firing bank on Link won't just read "off the scale lean" but will not allow the heater to reach temp in time. Cheers, Neel

My turn to ask a question! Edit: figured it out, see the reply below. In short, Link's working fine, but still learned something today! On this new installation with a G2 Xtreme and twin CAN-Lambdas, Lambda worked for a full 5 minutes, they stopped reporting and started throwing up errors. Here's the situation. Voltage across Power and Ground on CAN-Lambda devices: Solid 13V+ at all times. No CAN bus errors. Bus resistance is 70ohm with a 120ohm resistor at each end. Seems a bit high - I would expect closer to 60 but again no errors. On both Lambda 1 and Lambda 2, I get alternating 16 "Heated too long" and 33 "Open Circuit APE-IPE" errors. While error 16 is present, both report roughly 500C sensor temps (I understand they should run about 780) which climb and then fail. Sensor are mounted properly; pointed down vertically. Sensors and Lambda/CAN devices are brand new from Link, ordered in the last 2 months, never used before. The motor has probably run with the sensors in it for 20 minutes. Current ECU firmware information ----------------------- ECU firmware version : 5.6.6.3602 Bootcode Version : 1.9 Board S/N : 53842 ECU type : 12 Can-Lambdas are PCB Rev 1.2 UPDATE: Upgraded firmware to 5.6.7, same issues. Update 2: for no apparent reason they both got to 780 finally, but Lambda 1 is.... wack: Ideas? Log file attached Thanks, Neel apex speed technology lambda issue 9146.llg

I've had to do this a few times when adapting other harnesses to a Link ECU, and I've not had issues. As they say, your mileage my vary.....

Relays, coils and backfeeding can send you down a wormhole of trying to diagnose things with a volt meter. When there's no load on these outputs, when they're open circuit, there are many things that can make for odd voltage readings. Let's forget about your voltages for a second. Simple test: Pull the wire going to Aux 6 (pin 26) out of the Monsoon ECU connector, then with everything powered up as normal, ground that wire to the chassis. Does the fuel pump operate as normal? Then disconnect that wire at the relay (in Bosch speak, terminal 86) and reconnect it at Pin 26. Put your volt meter on the wire from Aux 6 (no longer connected to the relay) and the other side at the relay input 12V (in Bosch Speak, terminal 30) then power cycle the ECU. Does the voltage go to VBATT for the duration that the prime is on? If so, it would seem to me that the ECU is working properly and the problem is somewhere with your relay or wiring. -Neel Vasavada apex speed technology @apexspeedtech

Happy to help, gives me something to do during this quarantine. And Adam, thanks for letting me play "tech support dude" in your sandbox! -Neel

I'm not sure where you're from brother, but where i am from an appropriate response might be: Does a bear shit in the woods? In my opinion Timing calibration and setup is one of the MOST important parts of setting up a new ECU. I always run through the basic calibration procedure, even if its a plug in, even if I have a base map. If I'm tuning a car setup by someone else, at the first sign of something being amiss, I check this. I'd recommend you read the "Wiring Information > First Time Setup > Trigger Calibration" section of the Link Help file. Try and understand the Trigger Setup, Trigger Offset and using the Trigger Scope functions, and then feel free to ask questions. Since you have a base map that should match your trigger setup, you might want to post a "trigger scope capture" for us to make sure the polarity is correct. Also make sure your injectors and ignitions are wired up in cylinder number order, not firing order. Use the injector test and ignition test functions to verify this. Cheers, Neel Vasavada Apex Speed Technology

Your battery voltage is only 10.3V under cranking, can we do better? I've had plenty a car which showed a big voltage drop under cranking even though the starter motor itself ran fine. I might suggest, if you can't improve this with a booster of some sort, temporarily power the ECU off an external battery, just to see. Have you confirmed with a light or a scope you're getting an injector pulse? Because according to this data, it sure looks likes its commanding the outputs, though I could be missing something. -Neel

That's 90 minutes of an ECU logging with the engine off. Got a dataset with you cranking or something? I don't see anything too obvious in your map, though for good measure I'd set Chassis and Body/Anti Theft/Allow CAN Anti-Theft Request to OFF.

Sorry, I don't have the documentation for that project anymore, but I don't remember it being particularly challenging. If you want to start with the Link documentation and post questions here, I'm happy to try and help! Cheers, Neel

We did a Charger with a new 5.7 in 2013 with a Vi-Pec, was a pretty car. From what I recall the software didn't support any alternator control yet but we got it going with an open loop PWM table just fine. Wish I had a better picture.

Yep, double that request. There's likely a parameter causing a commanded cut and it should be easy enough to sort out.

I can concur with Adam, I didn't check before but the datasheets I found for the 0261230340 match the temp cal for the 026. For a Bosch 026 sensor, 1 ohm is between 120 and 130C. Are you reading those values across the sensor not plugged into anything? http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/content/downloads/Raceparts/Resources/pdf/Data sheet_70101387_Temperature_Sensor_NTC_M12.pdf Where is your dash reading from?

Hi There, Share your map so I can see more, but one place to start is to ask yourself why TP (main) and (sub) don't mirror more precisely. 1. No evidence the ECU is asking the throttle to move around like this. You're not in idle mode (Status is "Hold - Speed", ISC Trip & offset are both flat, and e-throttle 1 target (%) is flat) 2. TP(Sub) doesn't move as much as TP(Main). That could be a smoking gun. 3. E-Throttle 1 Motor DC (%) mirrors TP Sub much better than Main. Is there a way, mechanically, your TP1 sensor has backlash or other installation issues?

I wouldn't put a lot into not seeing 5V on the ignition outputs until we'll confirmed the most basic thing: Is the ECU actually trying to trigger the coil? 1. No trigger errors? 2. Do you have injector pulse when cranking? 3. Do you have an oscilloscope or access to one? Thanks, Neel

Yes. At the end of the day, this is 2 resistors in parallel, nothing more. So if you have a CAN bus and its supposed to have a 120ohm (100 works in my experience too but 120 is the spec) then: So 1/(1/120 + 1/120) = 60. This means only 1 side of your bus is terminated. CAN is one of those weird things that, in my personal experience, works sometimes even when it well, shouldn't. You can "get away" with no terminal resistors or 1 terminal resistor sometimes... then stuff just stops working. So I'd fix the bus resistance for good measure anyway.

Actually, you should be at about 60ohm if its terminated properly at both ends.

Before you do that, do you have any Analog Temp inputs available? I may be mistaken as I haven't done it myself, but can't Cal Table 1 be set to Ohms so you can use the internal pullups? The calibration for that part number in Ohms vs Degrees C is easily google-able, though again I haven't tried it myself. If you are using a standard analog input and have a 0-5V calibration with a 4.6k pullup to 5V that you want to use, then as you said, terminate 1 end of your 4.6k resistor to sensor signal and the other to +5V. Cheers, Neel

Hi there, Here are my steps for diagnosing no-spark in almost any ECU: Power - is there 12V at the coil? There should be 12V between the inner and outer pins on an LS3 Coil Connector Power - is there 12V at the ECU? There should be 12V between Pin 5 and both pins 25 & 34 on the Atom ECU Comms - you can communicate with the ECU, correct? Triggers - Are you reading Engine RPM during cranking? Triggers - Do you have any errors on Trigger 1 or Trigger 2 which increment under cranking? What is your trigger setup? Would you like to post the map that you are using, I'll be happy to look. Cheers, Neel

We've done a lot of Vi-PECs in the last several years, from Porsches to BMWs to Minis and Dodge Hemis. But this is one of the prettiest yet: Apex worked with Hasselgren Engineering on this project. Having worked with Cosworth & Bosch ECUs building race-winning motors for Formula Atlantic & Grand Am, they're very impressed with the power of the Vi-PECs. Apex built custom, mil-spec harnesses that were low profile and hidden to maximize the car's visual presentation. More on our Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/apexspeedtech?ref=nf

Jimmy, I'm happy to go over it with you online when you have a moment - the likely cause is a crank sensor issue of some sort. Have you been able to verify that the other sensor inputs read reasonable values? -Neel

I think we'll have to get Vi-PEC to write the trigger profile for it. -Neel.

Unfortunately, the S62 is a real I/O hungry motor and there are few ECUs that can handle them. It has dual drive-by-wire throttles, and the V88 can only handle one. Each cam requires 2 drivers, so VANOS alone sucks up 8 aux outputs. Does Vi-PEC even support the cam triggers for the S62? -Neel