hexdmy
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Posts posted by hexdmy
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I've actually ordered one to have a closer look, but I do know that it has a four wire connector, two of the wires connect to a small brushed DC motor, the other two connect to a switch that closes any time the throttle arm contacts the idle motor. Some time ago I worked on a few vehicles that used these motors and from memory when you opened the throttle this would act as a dashpot, extending and then closing when the throttle arm came in contact the the motor. Mitsubishi cars from the 1980's with throttle body injection also used this type of idle motor but they did have a dedicated idle motor position sensor in addition to the switch that detected when the motor contacted the throttle arm.
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So I'm wondering if it is possible to use a throttle pusher style idle valve instead of stepper or pwm type air bypass valve. Specifically considering this for ITB applications where it is preferable or not possible to have a air bypass valve. These are readily available and were used on many vehicles from the 1980's and 90's. They use a small dc motor, I believe they pull less than an amp to operate. Curious if anyone has tried to do this, or if it is even possible as I'm not quite sure how you could implement this in the software. Looking for any suggestions.
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Bumping this topic... I'm surprised no one else has interest in this. OEM systems I have worked with do this, and it makes sense. At low throttle openings, a change of throttle angle is a better trigger for transient fueling than map for engines that have low / noisy idle vacuum. However, at steady throttle angles, on a turbo engine, as the boost builds, there can be a need for additional fueling, otherwise you get a lean spike. I've noticed this when tuning steady state and then doing transient sweeps, if you tune to the sweep, you get a inverse V in your fuel map.
Certainly this is not reinventing the wheel, just doing what the OEM's have already been doing for many years, and for good reason.
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I've noticed on some of the cars that I've tuned with G4's that it would be good to have both accel fueling strategies available at the same time. Primarily I use tps based accel fueling, but on some turbo engines, you can get a bit of leaness when the turbo spools, and tuning with map based accel fueling alone is not much of an option on engines with decent sized cams.
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Very convenient to be able to see the idle status, however only about the first eight characters are shown ? Is this a bug, or is there a way to correct this ?
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As an update, I've had excellent results using the 3D table option for "Base/Target Table Mode", using the "Idle Target RPM Trim Table" scaling the Y axis with "Engine Running Time" (as it is pre-configured) and scaling the X axis with a timer that I setup to decay over 10 seconds using a "Virtual Aux" that resets when the rpm is less that 2000, and the throttle transitions from open to closed. This works exceptionally well, and I have been able to eliminate any return to idle speed dips, and start up is much improved. Thank you very much for adding this functionality !
The only thing I could add, is that down the road it would nice to be able offset target idle with vehicle speed, which could be done with a second "Idle Targe RPM Trim Table".
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Hello,
What is process to request a new trigger configuration, is there someone I should email at Link or should I post up the request and information relating to the trigger patterns here ?
Thank you.
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First of all, thank you for adding some of this logic to the latest firmware v5.5.6 . I have not been able to try it out yet, but I do have a question. Is there a decay to the 3d target idle offset, or does target idle follow the table. In other words, if I'm looking to add a target idle dashpot function, and left the Y axis as engine run time, but changed the X axis from driven speed to throttle angle, is there a delay or a way to delay the return to zero from the offset added from this table. If not, I think I can accomplish what I'm looking to do, by setting the X axis to a timer channel triggered by a virtual aux out.
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Scott, I understand your point, but I think in in certain areas, such as idle control, it makes sense to explain how all the routines work. Sure, for novice tuners your current approach makes it easier to digest, but what about your dealers or more advanced users who are used to and need full understanding and access to address and resolve tuning issues.
As a start, could we add some additional idle related ram variables:
- base idle valve position
- P, I, D, and anti-stall corrections (I know that there is know description of a Integral gain, I'm just assuming it's undocumented)
- the "hidden" idle position offset
- Chris
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Have now updated a vehicle with 5.5.3.2804, this is a nice feature to have, although having the "fixed" target idle speed is still a handicap. Can't wait to see the update that has some of the other changes to idle control added.
Also noticed that even if I zero the idle up steps, when you go into off idle mode there is a offset to base idle position, so this new constant is in addition to the existing off idle adder ?
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I’ve had a bit of experience working with several G4+ installations now. Something I have noticed is that there are things going on within the ecu that are not documented. An example of this would be the closed loop idle control, you get a certain amount of idle valve opening when the throttle is opened and you exit idle control. I'm guessing this is some sort of dashpot function however there is no mention of it in the user documentation. For lack of a more detailed explanation, and having worked with different stand alone and OEM engine management systems over the years, empirically the G4 runs the engine very well, much better than many other other stand alone engine management systems I’ve used. Yet the user interface is fairly basic which, besides the idle valve adder that I mention, leads me to believe there are other routines besides the idle control that are not documented. This would not be new within the standalone ecu market, as the old APEXi PowerFC’s had a lot of the control routines and related calibration parameters hidden and undocumented. I guess the philosophy could be that the manufacture figures reducing the amount of accessible calibration areas will make the tuning process more straight forward, which will also result in less customer support issues/costs. I would argue that it is a disadvantage, especially to experienced tuners that this information is not documented. I think it would be reasonable to ask Link to at least document these routines even if they are not accessible or editable to the end user within PCLink. It would also be an advantage to end users/dealers who request additional features withing the G4+ ecu.
- Chris
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Just bringing this topic back up, looking back at my laundry list, I know it was quite a bit of things to add. If I had to prioritize two items, they would be the 3d look-up target idle speed, and a 3d (or 2d) lookup throttle vs rpm idle offset with decay and threshold settings, basically some sort of throttle based idle offset, with adjustable decay to both smooth the transition from idle to off idle in situations where the idle spark is considerably lower than MBT, and to slow the return to idle. Certainly this is not necessary on a lot of engines, but I tend to deal with engines that have very lazy idle characteristics (big cam, big intake plenum), and this would help make idle -> off idle -> idle transitions a lot more civilized.
Finally, as a possible way to make more room for what I'm asking for, could there be an option for a PID loop for idle spark control instead of the 3d look-up table that is available now ?
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For installations that did not originally use DBW, does anyone have a recommended DBW throttle and PPS ? I am looking for a throttle suitable for a 3.5-4.0 liter turbocharged engine, and a PPS that could work off of a linkage.Â
Thank you !
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Adam, I am familiar with those three widebands you mentioned however I believe the price point is either too high or the quality is questionable. my thought is that if they could offer a CAN wideband including the sensor with a street price around 250 dollars that utilized the lsu 4.9 sensor, or for about 350 dollars that would support / utilize the NTK sensor (4 or 6 milliamp)they would have a real winner.
Besides eliminating the voltage offset, Link offering their own CAN wide band would allow them to implement warm up strategies that would protect the sensor and reduce sensor failures, in addition they could have more elaborate diagnostic routines that would help protect the motor in case of a lambda failure. With that in mind you could also comfortably run closed loop lambda all the time.
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I know that link recommends the Innovate wideband, however I've had very poor success with these in the past. I would like to see a reasonably priced Link wide band with CAN communication, and support for at least the LSU 4.9, even better to support the L2H2 (NTK # LZA-09-E1) and/or production NTK sensor (NTK # Â LZA-08-H6). Any plans along these lines ?
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After tuning a few Link G4/Vipecs , I am thinking that although the idle control is ok, it could use some additional control logic and flexibility. I would suggest based on my experience various other systems, with the first four being the most important :
3d look-up target idle speed, Â ect (or charge temp) vs. engine run time or revolutions (add axis to existing 2d table)
3d look-up Idle valve position, ect (or charge temp) vs engine run time or revolutions (add axis to existing 2d table)
3d lookup throttle vs rpm idle valve offset table with variable decay (new table)
3d lookup fuel adder, idle valve position vs tps (new table)
3d tables for closed loop proportional gain ect vs idle target error, one for negative, one for positive (add axis to existing 2d table)
2d rolling speed -> target idle speed adder (new table)
2d TPS -> target idle speed adder (new table)
2d target idle speed adder -> idle valve position adder (new table)
Thank you.
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Looking into it a bit further, it will not be acceptable to run bank to bank, it would have to be either group fire or semi-sequential in the same order as we group the waste spark setup ( 1&4, 6&3, 2&5 ). The trigger wheel is a 60-2, I have no cam sensor installed. Is it possible to run semi-sequential , or am I stuck with group fire. Would adding a cam trigger be of any help in this situation ?
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Hello,
I'm in the planning stages of installing an Atom G4+ on a six cylinder engine with a firing order of 1-6-2-4-3-5. Looking through the manual, it appears that the Link ecu cannot run in semi-sequential, but rather a group mode ? So, my question is, do I wire the injectors in the same order as the waste spark ignition ( 1&4, 6&3, 2&5 ) or do I need to only use two injector drives, one for band one and one for band two, or is there another option? Any help is appretiated !
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I was wondering if anyone knows where I can buy, or could give a specification, for the wire type that is used in the flying lead harnesses. I'm in the US, TXL and GXL wire is common here, as is mil spec, but the stuff that's used in these Link harnesses appears to be PVC, and looks similar to the wire that is used on a lot of Japanese vehicles.
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cam crank support for BMW K1200 R motorcycle engine
in G4x
Posted
As it states, does anyone know if Link will support the cam / crank triggers for the K1200 R (2004-08) engine ?
Thank you.