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  1. Thanks
    iliasfyntanidis reacted to Adamw in RPM Activating Early   
    Ok, I can see why it is not happy, one of the cam teeth edges is sitting right on top of the crank edge that the ecu uses to sync.  Something a bit weird with the position of your cam teeth compared to our internal records and all pics I can find online.  Has this engine been apart?  What do they have for teeth on the cam - are the teeth part of the camshaft or are they on a disk that can be moved?  
    Here's a pic from the FSM, notice the cam teeth are nicely sitting in an un-toothed area on the crank:

    Compare to yours, the raising edge on the cam is very close to a rising edge on the crank:

    One thing I would like you to try - switch back to the "OBD2" trigger mode, but change trigger 2 to rising instead of falling.  
  2. Thanks
    iliasfyntanidis reacted to Adamw in RPM Activating Early   
    The triggerscope will not change, this is just showing you the signals that the ecu is receiving from the crank and cam.
    The VVT trigger mode since it is designed for an engine where the camshaft can move in relation to the crank, uses a more complex "sync test" which allows a larger margin on where the ecu expects the cam teeth to be.
    On the non-vvt trigger mode the cam teeth are expected to be near the factory location and only allow a smaller deviation from the expected factory position.   Your cam teeth are not in the normal factory position.
  3. Thanks
    iliasfyntanidis reacted to Davidv in Knock Setup on G4+ Plug in - EVO 6   
    Okay so there are a few stages to setting it up.
    1. Wiring
    Run one wire to the knock1 or knock2 wire on the link loom, and one to sensor earth, polarity unimportant. must must must must use shielded wire. The knock sensor outputs a very low voltage signal that's prone to interference.
    2. Initial settings
    Since you are using the 'wideband' knock sensor and an engine with an ~86mm bore has a knock frequency in the ~6khz range select your Freq Channel as 4-10khz Wide Band.
    Set Ignition Retard limit to 0 degrees.
    Set the RPM high and low lockouts however you like. (500rpm likely not ideal for the low setting)


    3. Cylinder balancing
    Your knock sensor is mounted closer to one cylinder than the others. It picks up vibrations, so the vibrations from that one cylinder will give a stronger signal than the others.
    So what you need to do, is hold the motor at say 4000rpm (no load) and check the signal strength of each cylinder.
    You can check the signal strength by pressing F12 to get to the runtime values screen and looking at these numbers, knock level cyl 1/2/34

    See how in that example above, the numbers are 235 / 160 / 255 /145. You need to get these numbers as balanced / equal as possible.

    You can adjust the values up or down by tweaking the numbers up and down in Knock control > Cyl setup > Cyl 1/2/34 knk level gain

    Best to start with a value of 1 for the cylinder that's closest to the knock sensor, and increase the other values to suit. If one of the values reaches '2' (maximum) you can reduce some of the other numbers to less than 1.
    4. Non knock noise levels
    Since the knock sensor picks up vibrations, there are of course vibrations happening even when there's no knock. As RPM increases, the amount of 'natural' background noise increases too.
    The ECU can tell that knock is happening, because there's an unexpected large spike in the 'noise' from the motor around the time of the iginition event. Soooo, you need to find out what the background noise level is for your engine.
    According to the manual, a 2 row table with full throttle and 0 throttle is sufficient but this is up to you and how long you want to spend on it haha.
    So head to Knock control > Knock target, right click on the table and select Axis setup to define your table similar to this (if you want)

    Then you need to run a datalog through the rpm range at full throttle to see what the values are for this table. (and coast back down off throttle for the zero TP target, although I'm guessing not much knock happens at 0% throttle)
    Open the datalog and bring up a screen to show engine rpm and the knock level global.
    Knock level global has a maximum value of '1000'. If you find that you are hitting 1000, you need to reduce the Gain Channel number on the main knock sensing setup page to something a bit lower and try again. Remember that the '1000' has to be the maximum even including allowance for knock which is much stronger signal than the background noise so you need to allow headroom for that too.

    Once you've established these background noise levels for the motor in your table, increase all of the numbers in the table by 20% to give it a bit of a margin against picking up normal engine noise as knock.
    At this point, because you've set the maximum ignition retard to 0 degrees in your first step, the ECU isnt taking any action against knock.
    Now that you've got everything setup though (unless I've missed a step here, haha) you can turn the knock sensing on by setting an ignition retard limit here, to say 3 degrees or 5 degrees or whatever you want:

    Then as per reccomendations from the manual, it's best to test that knock sensing is working under a scenario that minimises risk of damage to your engine.
    So you could drive along at low load / low rpm and induce knock by creeping the timing forward until it knocks and you can see from the runtime values table (F12) that it's working.
    From here, it should all be working awesomely. (No responsibility taken for blown up motor though! This is just what has worked for me)

    Hopefully it all makes sense though
    Where are you based / what is the car used for? 
    Keen to hear how you get on.
  4. Thanks
    iliasfyntanidis reacted to Adamw in knock amp for ECU   
    Sorry Im not sure I understand what you are asking.  All of our G4+ ECU's that have knock control functionality in the firmware (such as Storm, Xtreme etc) already have the audio hardware built in, you connect the knock sensor directly to the dedicated knock input pin(s) on the ECU, no extra hardware is needed.  
  5. Thanks
    iliasfyntanidis reacted to Simon in MAP Sensor Calibration Failed   
    Check the ground and power supply to the sensor is good. 
  6. Thanks
    iliasfyntanidis reacted to cj in Over run fuel cut clarification   
    In this particular circumstance I have seen this happen before. The car is warm, sits powered off for some time, and while the water in the radiator cools down quickly (especially if you have the key on and therfore probably the fan running), the water in the engine absorbs the heat from the hot engine however. If your sensor is on the way "out" of the engine, what you see is immedaitely on cranking, the temp increases 4 or 5 deg as the hot water in the engine goes out past the sensor, then it drop by 10 or 20 as the cool water from the radiator makes it way through the engine to the ECT sensor. 
    There are however some weird things going on the the confguration of the sensors...
    There are 2x coolant temp sensors defined, and both seem to be working (they are within a couple deg of each other but sometimes they diverge, so they are clearly not 2x signals from the same sensor) The Temp3 values align with ECT so it looks like temp4 is just being ignored, but having 2x sensors defined as the same things is asking for trouble. Same thing is configured for IAT - Temp1 is being used, and temp2 is being ignored. If these extras are just for logging you should define them as GP Temp and just label them, rather than telling the ECU you have 2x IAT's and 2x ECT sensors.
    There is something odd going on with the oil pressure sensor. It reads ~115 kpa with the engine off. Is this an absolute pressure sensor rather than a gauge sensor? if so, you should offset the calibration by 100kpa so it reads ~0 when the engine is off. Otherwise any safety's you set up will be wrong by ~100kpa.
    Is it the same type of sensor as the oil pressure, and its wired up but not installed in the fuel line? I think you have the same gauge vs absolute thing going on here too. 120kpa is a bit co-incidental of a value for it to stick on for no reason. If so, you need to do the same thing with offsetting the calibration.
    The reason you need to set up open loop before closed loop for most systems is that the closed loop logic is something like "use the open loop value, +/- a small correction based on feedback from sensors". If the open loop values are completely off, the "start" point for any closed loop control is way off and it may not be allowed to go that far away from baseline, and it will take some time to learn this "error" each time you start up (or return to idle for idle control) so it will run badly for a bit until it figures out what realistic values should be for the various control systems.
    The various "lockout" values only apply to the system they are set for. Idle lockouts control when the idle systems kick in. They have no bearing on other systems (ie overrun fuel cut). If you add the value "overrun fuel cut status" to a log view you can see when this kicks in. In your log about -5:00 you can see if coming on and off at the upper end of the idle range, but it is giving you the fuel back below ~1400rpm. Any stalling behaviour is caused by soemthing else as fuel isnt being cut below 1400rpm.
    I'm suspicsou you might have an intake leak. Your MAP is at ~95kpa at -2:30 in your log. I'm guess you have ITB's or huge cams but thats still very low vacuum. If you set it to open loop idle does it run OK? It seems off that the idle solenoid can be reporting 60% DC and yet you still only have 600rpm and bascially atmospheric MAP. Is the throttle screw on the TPS set correctly so you have a slightly low but passable idle with the idle solenoid disconnected?
  7. Like
    iliasfyntanidis reacted to Adamw in Tuning Considerations   
    Attached is an ignition table from a BP engine I tuned.  It had ITB's and higher compression but it will be safe for you.
    To use this, right click on your ignition table, >import/export>import from file.
    Ignition Table 1 (+ °BTDC, -- °ATDC).lte
  8. Thanks
    iliasfyntanidis reacted to Adamw in Tuning Considerations   
    This just appears to be because you have a lumpy idle and a low resolution trigger wheel.  The timing bounces around because the RPM is rapidly changing.  As you notice this effect will smooth out at higher RPM.
    I think that will be a good idea, load source = BAP and use TP as the load axis on the fuel table.  Then the unstable MAP has no effect on the amount of fuel injected.
    MGP can keep fueling more consistant over large altitude changes.  This is often not relevant for many users, but more important for hill climbs and aircraft.
    You can use either on the ignition table, but if you are going to change the fuel table to TP then I would do the same for the ignition table.
    You Zeitronix shows -ve 85-170, so that is reading MGP, not MAP.  Standard atmosheric pressure at sea level is 760mmHg absolute, so your zeitronix reading "-170mmHg" would mean 760-170= 590mmHg or 79KPa absolute (MAP)
    Most parameters will get a default value assigned if there is no input set up. This is not so important for stuff like oil pressure but if you think of inputs such as fuel temp or air temp for instance that is used in the fuel calculation the ECU needs a realistic number to use if there is no input assigned.
  9. Thanks
    iliasfyntanidis reacted to Adamw in Tuning Considerations   
    Same as your fuel table, so TP would be my suggestion.
  10. Like
    iliasfyntanidis reacted to Adamw in Tuning Considerations   
    I actually think *3338 shouldnt be on the website still.  *3338b is the correct one.  From memory *3338 had problems connecting to old firmware.
    For best resolution it is better to have a smaller master and bigger values in the fuel table.  The main thing you want to avoid is really small numbers in the fuel table - say if your biggest number is 30% you are going to struggle to tune idle.
    The general advice is pick a master fuel that gives you numbers around 50% in the middle of your fuel table.
    Correct, they are basically the same, just using the trim you can get a finer adjustment.
  11. Like
    iliasfyntanidis reacted to Adamw in Tuning Considerations   
    Yes, the same setting is available in two different places, you only need to adjust one and the other will change at the same time.
    It depends if you are using open loop or closed loop.  If using open loop the base position table tells the idle valve how far open to be, the idle target table has no effect.  In open loop mode the idle target table is only used for idle ignition control.
    In closed loop mode the base position table is the starting position that the idle valve jumps to when idle conditions are first met, then the closed loop control will take over and adjust the valve position further if needed to make the RPM match the idle target.  The idea is the base position table can quickly get the idle valve somewhere close to where it needs to be then the closed loop only needs to make small corrections.  There are instructions in the help file how to tune idle control.  I suggest you start in open loop mode to build a good base position table.  Follow this page in help:  G4+ ECU Tuning Functions > Idle Speed Control >Open Loop ISC.
    Are you seeing this drift when the "set base timing" screen is open (so timing is locked)?  What ECU do you have?
  12. Thanks
    iliasfyntanidis reacted to Adamw in Knock Sensors Hookup Wire,Location,Performance?   
    You can use either.  Gnd out & Shield/gnd are effectively the same thing - they are both connected to sensor ground inside the ecu.
  13. Like
    iliasfyntanidis reacted to Adamw in Vipec i88 wiring   
    3A would have been the ground the ECU connects to the injectors when the injector drives are "on".  3C would be the ground the ECU connects to aux outputs.  
    Assuming both of these are decent sized wires I would use these two as the main "power grounds"
    Connect 3A to one of the i88 main grounds.  Connect 3C to the other i88 main ground.  Dont bother connecting 3B to anything.
  14. Like
    iliasfyntanidis reacted to beemn in IVts software   
    problem solved, thanks to Ross from tech support...magician/wizzard
  15. Like
    iliasfyntanidis reacted to Dave Kriedeman in Fuel table y axis   
    Hi turbodailydan,
    is this the same ECU and vehicle you are having the MAP sensor issues on.
    Blowing black smoke running super rich etc.
    If so then this is your problem, these engines have a very weak vacuum signal from what little plenum/vacuum chamber they have behind the throttle blades.
    If you have your fuel table set to MAP on they axis it will read very close to 100 kpa at idle, this will make the ecu think it is under load and therefore run on the 100 kpa fuel row, causing excessively rich mixtures.
    Most people make the mistake of hooking up the MAP sensor hose the  FPR hose port with a T piece.
    I have even seen one setup where the inlet plenum was drilled into and had a vacuum hose barb fitted, this will only read boost as the vacuum signal comes from behind the butterflies.
    I have attached 2 screen shot of how to set up a multi throttle low vacuum sourced engine.
    1. is a basic set up
    2. Is a more advanced set up incorporating a 4D fuel table that in boost is tuned as an extra % on top of the fuel cell number in the main fuel table which uses TPS as it's load reference .
    This table will only allow an extra 60% of fuel to your table.
    If you find this is not enough,you can adjust the FUEL MASTER VALUE or if you have a good fuel pump with plenty of flow crank the fuel pressure up.
    See how you go.

  16. Like
    iliasfyntanidis reacted to Adamw in Greddy 3 Bar Map Sensor   
    You should be fine but you wont know until you try.  You wont have a "resolution problem" but if you may find that you have an erratic or weak MAP signal due to the cams and no longer gives a good indication of load.  If that is the case you can just change the axis on your fuel table to TP.
    I think you might be confusing Absolute pressure with Gauge pressure.  If you use MAP (manifold absolute pressure) then full vacuum is zero.  If you use MGP (manifold gauge pressure) then zero means atmospheric pressure, negative means vacuum and positive means boost.  Our general recommendation is to use MGP as it compensates for changes in altitude or baro better.  A fuel table axis like the example below would be a good starting point.

  17. Like
    iliasfyntanidis reacted to Dave Kriedeman in AEM MAP and IAT Sensor   
    I haven't forgot about this project.
    I have been very unwell with extreme pain for the last couple of weeks.
    I am on large doses of very powerful pain medication, so my brain doesn't work correctly while under the influence and it makes me sleep a lot.
    I have just come back from the doctors again for different medication again, tonight.
    I have been working on the PCL file for this along with a few other jobs.
    I needed to know how much boost he wants to run for many reasons, boost cuts, boost control target tables etc, working out what his final fuel pressure will be with static pressure plus full boost pressure etc.
    Spanning the Y axis on Fuel and Ignition tables and any other tables that will be MAP,MGP etc based AXIS.
    The more information I can gather the easier it is to set things up.
    Setting up PCL files for cars that aren't in front of you is quite difficult hence for the many questions.
    Yes , you are all correct, I DO NOT WORK FOR ViPEC.
    I enjoy helping others where possible.
    When I first started I could only ask a random question here or there, I didn't have the luxury of FORUMS or the Internet for help.
    99% of what I know I have taught myself through testing , reading and studying etc.
    It is something you never stop learning.
    I have been doing this stuff for close to 20 years and there is still so much more to learn, I had many frustrating times trying to sort out issues etc.
    This is why I try to HELP where possible.
    I also strongly believe in the product and love it's capabilities.
    Sure there maybe some things people wish for that aren't possible in earlier versions etc.
    But for a very fairly priced ECU it sure is loaded with some very impressive features.
    There are also many ways to control devices under certain operating conditions etc.
    So by getting involved and helping those out seeking help, I in return learn as well.
    No one has ever done everything.
    So having a go at everything that crosses your path will expand your knowledge base 10 fold.
    So in the process of helping you, at times I am learning also.
    That is what this FORUM is about, NO BULL$%@T, just cold hard facts and many suggestions to help you all in the long run.
  18. Like
    iliasfyntanidis reacted to Dave Kriedeman in AEM MAP and IAT Sensor   
    Hi Shadow,
    firstly looking at your data logs etc, you need to setup the properties of anything to do with your MAP sensor as a min and maximum setting.
    Right click on the data log page or anywhere that the AEM MAP sensor data will be displayed such as a value list etc.
    You need to set the MAP parameter up as MANUAL not AUTOMATIC.
    Set your MINIMUM value to - 15 and your MAXIMUM to 60.
    To change the output reading of a gauge such as LAMBDA to AFR, you need to go to the OPTIONS tab at the top of the page,
    Go to the UNITS page and you will have METRIC, IMPERIAL or OPTIONS.
    Select options and in both the Metric and Imperial setup tabs, select AFR instead of Lambda.
    Or if you press the "U" key on any page it will convert the displays from METRIC to IMPERIAL and vice versa.
    Also check your Target AFR /Lambda table as you have started it at 2.9 psi positive pressure with target values of14.7 all the way up to 10.2 psi positive pressure.
    You need to rescale you Y axis back to -ve values also, otherwise your AFR is dangerously lean.
    I had surgery yesterday and I am in a lot of pain, but I am going to run your PCL up on my i88 and simulator to test the boost gauge setup and outputs etc.
    As for it running very rich, firstly you need to confirm what manifold vacuum or PSI, MGP, MGP PSI your MAIN FUEL TABLE is running at.
    What value is the Y axis and how many rpm is the engine idling at.
    Have you carried out a TPS and MAP sensor calibration and pressed F4 to save these values to the ECU.
    As for the idle speed, until you get the idle mixtures etc under control I wouldn't bother with that at all.
    However you can try adjusting the IDLE BASE POSITION TABLE values to start with.
    I will create PCL file for you to try with your injectors etc setup.
    Give me some time however, on lots of pain killers so I am a little slow today.
  19. Like
    iliasfyntanidis reacted to Simon in Greddy 3 Bar Map Sensor   
    You will need to select map sensor type as CAL4,5 or 6
    And then set up matching cal as per image.

  20. Like
    iliasfyntanidis reacted to Scott in Knock Sensors Hookup Wire,Location,Performance?   
    The cable to a knock sensor should be standard automotive cable that is shielded. If you have a 2 pin knock sensor the shielded cable should contain two wires.
    The narrowband sensor fitted to the engine from the factory is selected to match the expected frequency that knock will occur at in the engine. Engine modifications can shift the frequency that knock will occur at, especially modifications that change the bore of the cylinder. For this reason it is often better to use a wideband (donut) type knock sensor, and then use the ECUs selectable frequency filters.
    In terms of setting up knock control, apart from selecting the frequency filter the process is the same for a narrowband or wideband type sensor. So I wouldn't say one is more user friendly than the other.
    Here is some guidance on knock sensor location from the G4 KnockBlock manual:

  21. Like
    iliasfyntanidis got a reaction from Ramantanis Dimitris in Wideband and Narrowband wiring?   
    Hi there.
    I am in the process of bulding my harness.I am planning on using 3 oxygen sensors.2 widebands and the OEM narrowband.
    They will be located as follows.
    The 2 widebands in exhaust ports 1-4,2-3 and the OEM norrowband just before the cat.
    The purpose is to keep AFR readings as accurate by splitting the readings in the exhaust ports as mentioned above and the OEM narrowband will be kept on order to help me tune in CLL.
    I believe that monitoring the AFR target values with one wideband doesn't mean that all the injectors spray the same.Especially under WOT.
    My questions are
    1)Is the narrowband better than a wideband,in means of fuel economy and accuracy being more accurate in the stoich area?
    My 2 widebands are user programmable.Does this mean that i can make them act just like the OEM narrowband,on not?
    2)How can i wire in the 2 Bosch LSU wideband sensors to my i88 Vipec?According to Bosch the pin out is the following.
    Pin 1 Pump current APE / IP
    Pin 2 Virtual ground IPN / VM
    Pin 3 Heater voltage H- / Uh-
    Pin 4 Heater voltage H+ / Uh+
    Pin 5 Trim resistor RT / IA
    Pin 6 Nernst voltage UN / RE
  22. Like
    iliasfyntanidis reacted to Scott in Wideband and Narrowband wiring?   
    The controllers will have have at least 1 analog output that needs to be connected to an Analog Volt channel on the Link ECU. Often you can re-program the controllers to output a particular calibration, but as Link ECUs have some built in calibrations, and also contain custom calibration tables there is probably little point in doing this.
  23. Like
    iliasfyntanidis reacted to Scott in Vipec i88 wiring   
    Yes, it's fine to share the 12v+ supply to different devices, so long as the wire (relay, and fuse also) can provide sufficient current. This is often how the OEM wiring is organised also.
    The downsides of using 1 source for multiple devices:
    If a short circuit happens in one device, the others devices will lose power also. It is more difficult to control the devices separately from each other, you will normally have to control the ground to each device to do this. Advantages of using 1 source for multiple devices include:
    Less cables, so a more simple system. Less cables, so reduction in weight and cost. Scott.
  24. Like
    iliasfyntanidis reacted to Scott in Vipec i88 wiring   
    Generally the supplies are able to provide a fair bit more current than is required by the system, so adding some additional load is ok. If the current draw is too much after adding the solenoid then the most likely thing to happen is that the fuse protecting the circuit will blow. I would expect the current draw of the solenoid to be quite low, you could measure the resistance of the winding and work it out if you want to. If you want to be certain that no problems will occur you could fit a relay that takes power from the battery positive (via an appropriately sized fuse) and then supplies the idle solenoid. You would have one pin of the relay's activation coil to ground, and the other pin connected to an ignition switched +12V.
  25. Like
    iliasfyntanidis reacted to Scott in Vipec i88 wiring   
    Hi, well done on what you have don so far.
    For the ISC solenoid, pin 3M will go to an ignition switched +12V, pin 3Q will go to an Aux Output channel (from 1 to 8). The Ignition switched +12V could be the one used to power the ECU, or you can use one from somewhere else, possibly the supply for the ignition coils or injectors. Just make sure that the supply you use can handle the additional load. You don't want to use a supply out of the ECU for this.
    Pin 1A is not needed by the Vi-PEC. Some ECUs use this for shutting down safely or saving data after the key is switched off. All the other pins will not be needed by you (thanks to your alternator swap). Pin 3K is not required, but if the signal goes from 0v to 5v you could consider connecting it to a spare AN Volt channel for interests sake.
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