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cj

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cj last won the day on May 21

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  1. cj

    3uz throttle map

    click on the logging tab in pclink. Now when you go to logging > record you can see the log in real time. right click the graphs and select properties, then add/remove/move paramters until you get what you want on the graph. Heaps of things are recorded in the background, you're just choosing what to display at the time. You can click the config or tuning tabs to get back to the default screen at any time without impacting the log capture. It will carry on in the background while you do other things. Just a note that no where in the log file will it show that you changed settings in the middle of the log, the car behaviour will just suddenly be different, so name the log something sensible when/if you save it so that there is some hint that the settings changed in the middle. Not helpful when you're looking for something a week later and your log has unexplained changes in the middle of it.
  2. cj

    Poor Idle

    I think you've got a combination of slightly laggy ethrottle settings and an idle setup that is very low ign angle with a big throttle opening. You can have idle with low throttle opening (1-2%) and lots (20 ish or just over) of timing, or lots of throttle (5-6%) and really low timing (5-8), or any combination in between, and still get idle at the same rpm. You currently have a pretty wide throttle opening and hardly any timing (8 deg at normal idle). At this low of an ignition angle you need a lot of throttle angle change to get any additional HP to pull out of a stall, but with a throttle opening this wide you should be able to have a lot of impact using ignition idle control. To fix the stalling, try editing your ignition idle table so that instead of it reading 7,13,14,15,15 on the high side, it reads 7,13,17,19,21. this will make it add timing more aggressively to increase RPM when its below idle target. regarding the throttle hang side of things, it looks like your ethrottel PID settings arent that sensitive to low amounts of error - eg if its only 1% out from target it takes 2-3 seconds to correct. It would be nice to make this more aggressive and fix this "properly", but you can work around it a bit just by zeroing out the 0% AP row of your ethrottle table for everythign above 1400RPM.
  3. cj

    Subaru EJ20Y cam sensors

    Have a read of this. on a quad AVCS head you will have a position sensor and a solenoid on each cam, plus your crank position sensor. Whether those cam sensors are 3 wire hall or 2 wire VR may depend on the exact engine but they must be there. If you cant find them at all on the front of the engine, check at the rear of the cams. I know the EZ30/36's ran their AVCS control at the back of the engine rather than the front. Maybe the newer EJ20's did too?
  4. cj

    3uz throttle map

    look up the wikipedia article for PID tuning. There is a gif on the page about half way down that changes to show the effect of increasing P, I and D values. Very roughly, P is how quickly it reacts (how quickly it applies motor current), I is the aggressiveness (how much current it applies), and D is like a smoothing filter. None of these descriptions is technically correct but it can be a lot easier to understand to this way than fully understanding the maths behind it. I had noticed that your TPS response was a bit slow in general compared to your AP - about 200-250ms, which has got to be noticeable when driving. Here's the process i've used to tweak ethrottle PID's in the past (in case the 1uz settings dont give you the feel you want, or you just want to understand "why" a bit better): without the engine running, set "run mode when stalled" to "run throttle" set your ethrottle target table so AP0% = TPS20%, then interpolate up to AP100% = TPS80%. ie your TPS will only span between 20% and 80% open with full accel pedal travel. probably store the ECU config at this point. It gives you a safe point to return to if you have to cut power a abort testing later on. go to the logging window in pclink, start a log, and make APS main and TPS main the only 2 parameters visible (or at least the only 2 in one of the groups) press the accel pedal slowly a few times then quickly a few times, then quickly but only to 1/2 or 1/4 pedal travel and notice how much delay you see between the AP line and the TP line. now go to the ethrottle PID numbers and bump up P by 1 and repeat the tests. What you are looking for is minimal delay between the AP line moving and the TP line starting to follow it. At this stage dont worry about overshoot too much, just bump it up towards 8 or 9 until you stop seeing much improvement. dont go past 9 though. Make some notes as you go about what numbers you are testing. If you get the throttle to the point its just oscillating and wont stop after a second or 2, turn the ignition off, start again at slightly less aggressive numbers. Now you basically play D off against I. D you increase or decrease by 1 or 2 points at a time. I by 0.02 or so. If the TP response looks "lazy" - ie its heading towards the AP line but starts to taper off before catching up to it (so TP gets to within 1-2% of AP and the takes a second to get the last bit), lower D until that tapering off point is really close to the AP line. If you see the TP line overshoot the AP line and oscilate a few times before settling down or if it doesnt stop oscillating at all, increase D until you only have no overshoot or maybe a single small overshoot then it stablises at the AP line. To evaluate I, looks at whether the angle of the TP line matches that of the AP line when you press the pedal. If TP isnt a sharp enough angle, ie its heading in the right direction but not steeply enough, increase I (by a tiny bit). If TP likes to overshoot the target/AP by more than a couple percentage points, then lower I a bit. Note: this is why you tweaked the throttle target table to between 20 and 80 - you cant normally see overshoot below 0 or above 100. You'll likely see overshoot worst when making large quick changes, and you'll see lazy response worse when making small slow changes. When you have numbers you are happy with, put the throttle target table back to its normal values and save everything. Regarding the APS and TPS calibration failures, you can do this manually by hooking up all 4x sensors but leaving your existing voltage values in place, setting ethtrottle to "quiet mode" mode, and pull off your intake pipe so you can manually move the throttle blade. start a log, then press the pedal all the way down, hold it for a couple seconds, then release for a couple seconds. repeat 2 or 3 times. Now push the throttl blade all the way open and hold it, then all the way shut (you need to press it shut, they like to sit at 3-4% when left alone), repeat a couple times. Now add parameters to your log view for AN 1, 5, 6, 7 - these are the raw voltages from the APS and TPS sensors. have a look at the min and max values for each sensor and enter these manually into the APS and TPS calibration screens. Also note if either of the SUB sensors doesnt have a full range of travel (ie it flatlines above 70% or something), you need to enter the main% value when the sub% stops increasing if this happens too. You should now be able to switch to "run when stalled" throttle mode and run another log, but this time look at APS main, sub, TPS main, sub, and you should see all 4 tracking between 0 and 100% together (subject to a littel bit of latency in the TP numbers depending on how well your PID's are tuned).
  5. cj

    3uz throttle map

    if normal range is 85psi @3000 then you are right on the edge of it but still just on normal. Couple of places in your log you go through 3000rpm under throttle and oil pressure is mid-high 80's. Was that stutter+throttle cutout before or after you removed the effectively removed the tps sub connection? Some/most of the methods of failure that will trigger an ethrottle cutout will cause the ecu to log a fault code (which are not lost until manually cleared). I take it you did not see any codes when you connected to it afterwards? What troubleshooting did you do to conclude that the tps sub sensor was faulty - ie is it possible this was misdiagnosed and the same fault is still present and affecting the throttle control now?
  6. cj

    3uz throttle map

    Are you sure the APS wiring is being fed from 2 different outputs on the throttle pedal? both AN6 and AN7 (APS main and sub) track EXACTLY the same voltage for your entire log. It would be odd for a pedal to output the same voltage on main and sub sensors, and also odd for them to track 100% perfectly. You'd normally expect fractions of a volt differences between the sensors. Its not immediately urgent though as the numbers from it look normal enough (it goes from 0 to 100 and doesnt look to jump around randomly). Just a slight risk running it this way if the sensor fails to 100%. As a drift car that spends most of its time at high rpm, the good news is that whatever is in your fuel table, it ends up around 0.84 lambda at full throttle which is pretty much right where you want it on an n/a. maybe a little lower if its getting too hot at the end of a run but its a perfectly safe number to start with. Your throttle feel issues mostly seem to be at lower rpm so if its a pure track car you could just ignore them and be safe, even if its not optimal. It goes really rich on throttle tip in - 0.65 ish - but it doesnt stay there so unless you get stutter on acceleration this probably isnt worth trying to fix if you're not comfortable doing it. the VVT table is safe (typically OEM's put mechnical stops in the VVT mechanisms so you cant cause piston>valve interference even if the cams go uncontrolled), it just might feel jumpy around that point. Its low in the rev range though and for a drift car shouldnt really be noticed as I doubt you spend much time at 2000rpm. What is a little more concerning is what looks like PID overshoot causing VVT target oscilations in your log (the wavy line at the bottom between 0:58 and 1:00). the target here is 35 for that whole range but you can see it repeatedly goes over/under target and corrects itself. You can then see one bank (green line) settles quicker than the other, but neither should do this at all. On a factory valve train and pistons you arent likely to have interference from this but its not ideal for power and TBH ive never run a car doing this for long enough to know if it puts added strain on anything, gut feel is its not something you want to leave though. I'm not sure if the 3uz and 1uz VVT solenoids are the same but i'd guess they are slightly different and the default PID settings arent sufficient to control VVT accurately. There are ways to tweak these settings a bit using custom PID values but tuning these is risky and best bet would be see if the link guys can advise if any of their internal docs mention what VVT PID settings work on a 3uz. Maybe you can just select the VVT control algorithm for a similar engine if the link guys can figure out which pre-deifined setting will be best.
  7. cj

    Redtop Beams turbo swap & setting up

    MAF can be useful for VVT tuning - especitally if you're going to street tune it. its one of the few ways you can measure engine efficiency when configuring your VVT targets without having a dyno where you can actually measure the few % points you might gain at each RPM. Even with a dyno its still probably quicker because you dont need to fully tune at each cam angle to measure the HP output - you only need to see the airiflow. You dont use MAF in any of the tuned tables so it doesnt actually matter if its properly cailibrated either, but if you log it and compare runs between different cam positions (say fixed at every 10deg) you can overlay the graphs in excel or something and work out a reasonably optimum cam angle that gives you most airflow (so best VE) at each rpm.
  8. cj

    3uz throttle map

    Just had a thought about the TPS vs APS fuel map. If you feel like playing with excel for a bit, you should be able to take the fuel map you have, and the original APS>target table, and with some calculations work out what the equivalent TPS should be for every cell, and use this to generate a new Fuel map that is TPS based. This will be a lot of excel tweaking but means you can keep your tune and move to TPS based fuel map. Regarding the oil pressure safety - there is a GP RPM limit table set using oil pressure so as long as the sensor is working, your tuner has set up a safety for low oil pressure. The bit that isnt right is that if the sensor itself fails, it will fail to a high oil pressure number rather than low. This is simple enough to fix by changing the error condition in the oil pressure input to 0kpa. (same for fuel). You have both TPS and APS set to single track. If you just have a flaky TPS, you can still run APS with both main+sub sensors so you still get some level of protection against noise/sensor issues. I guess the good bit here is that most of the issues i've pointed out are around near idle performance rather than full throttle, so you should actually be ok to drift it. (once you fix the oil pressure failure condition).
  9. cj

    Engine protection question

    If you dont mind it being a bit harsh, you can "chain" virtual aux's with as many parameters as you want, and set this virtual aux as the trigger for any kind of engine protection you want (either RPM limit, or the trigger to swap to a low power ignition/ethrottle table, etc). Its a straight on/off though so if you want it to fell graceful you have to set up the "safe" table to have something like usable values up to 2-3k rpm or 10% throttle and "limit" values above this.
  10. cj

    3uz throttle map

    There are a few weird things in this map, and not all of them relate to throttle control. Firstly, as Adam pointed out your APS and TPS are both configured to what looks like the same sensor. The upper and lower limits for both main and sub values are the same, and the last running info that ECU saw before you saved the log showed that both the main and sub values were identical (for both APS and TPS). This isnt going to instantly break anything but it means you have no way of catching a failed APS or TPS, or a way to filter out odd inputs from electrical noise as you have nothing to compare to. You should really be running main and sub to separate ECU inputs. You could re-run the APS and TPS calibrations as a starting point and check you get the same high and low values. This is a likely candidate for you throttle faults. Regarding the values in the ethrottle target table, both tables should perform well enough but I guess its personal preference. What could be making it a bit odd is that your ethrottle idle control is set to kick in at anything under 5% throttle/1300rpm (give or take, temperature dependent). This may make it feel like you need to give it quite a bit of gas to get it to respond, especially when combined with the slow ramp up of throttle target postition. You could try dropping the AP% lockout to 2% or so and see if you like the feel of it. If it wants to stall when returning to idle after this then bump it up a bit. Your ignition idle control is also set to the same 5%AP and 1500rpm, and the ignition values from your main table at idle vs those in your ignition idle table are a long way apart (28ish main table vs 15 idle table), again this means there will be a lot less power just off idle and the suddenly have it come on when it drops out of idle control at 5% throttle. There is also a bug floating around in the current ECU code around idle control when you dont have a speed source selected (which you dont). You've also got VVT targets that are TPS based and are 0 below 10% TPS, then jump to 30 deg. Sharp transitions like this can be noticeable depending on the engine, and while having this TPS referenced instead of MAP will still work, its going to make the engine be constantly changing its target vvt angle which isnt instant so you may be "off target" quite a lot of the time. Your main fuel table is referenced to AP% and I'm not sure why. TP% is a reasonable config on some engines, but relatively rare on on cars with a normal throttle plenum. AP% as a fuel reference is asking for trouble given that your AP vs TP table isnt 1:1. It also means that normally harmless changes like you've been making to the AP vs TP target table actually affect your fuel numbers! If you change this to TPS it will still be roughly correct (and will be closer to correct at high load), but it will throw your whole tune off a bit. If you dont "fix" this though, I'm not sure you will be able to make much in the way of ethrottle changes though without screwing your tune anyway. You also have some strange engine protection config. Fuel pressure appears to be configured but is reporting 0kpa in the last runtime values window, and its not referenced in any safety RPM limits etc (maybe its not acutally connected?). Oil pressure is configured on an input and is used as part of the GP RPM limit to protect against oil pressure loss (good), but both sensors have the "error condition" value set to ~1000kpa though - ie if the sensor goes out of range (disconncted, fails, etc), the ecu behaves like its got really high fuel/oil pressure so it wont limit RPM from this.
  11. cj

    Differential Fuel Pressure

    change your fuel system type to FP sensor. Without that, Fuel pressure is not actually used for the various calculations. The way you had it, it tells the ECU to always assume it's 300kpa.
  12. cj

    Nissan 350z oscillating rpm, first startup.

    There are several things here that are a bit off and will be making it misbehave, but I think your oscilating idle is a simple case of not having injector short pulse adders entered, and that fact that setting the fuel numbers to 25.4 everywhere doesnt actually give you a fixed injector pulse width at different RPM and MAP as a few other numbers are multiplied into the fuel number to determine the injector pulse. If you want to use traditional fuel model, change this before you even start trying to tune it. If you want to leave it in modelled mode, set you injector data correctly and copy the fuel table from the monsoon base map as a starting point. Having a flat fuel table like this in modelled mode is never going to behave well as you arent actually telling it to always give the same amount of fuel, you're telling it that engine VE doesnt change with revs or MAP, which is not true You should also run the calibrations for the accel pedal and throttle plate - tps main and sub are nearly 1% apart at most times, and AP is sitting at 3%. If you're holding the pedal open a bit this might be right, but it should read 0% with your foot taken off it. Your idle control lockout is 3% AP, and with it seeing 3.2% AP all the time, idle control isnt doing anything here, the problem is elsewhere in the tune.
  13. with the ECU connected, click save as and put a copy of your map somewhere on your laptop. disconnect your ecu, go to file>open, look in C:\Link G4-565\PCLink G4+\Base Maps or wherever you installed the management software. In that base maps folder are all the default maps. Most of them are a bit old and use traditional fuel map, so you can see the fuel numbers in these look similar to yours. Open the monsoon or thunder base maps files. you can then select all the values in fuel1 table and ctrl+c, then open your saved map select all of fuel table1, and click paste. You may also need to change the values on some of the axis - right click to do this. You can also comapre them directly by opening one map, then going to file>compare and it will show you the differences between 2 maps. Click the 3d button on the fuel table to have a look at the shape, its different between traditional and modelled maps - modelled ones look like a VE table with values of around 100 at 3-4k@100kpa, traditional ones are approximately a linear upwards slope starting at about 25-40 around idle in most cases.
  14. Did you start off with a base map that was in traditional mode then switch it to modelled? That fuel table looks to have very low numbers for a modelled setup. Try copying the entire fuel table1 from the monsoon base map over top of your current fuel table 1. This should give you a much better starting point and might mean you can leave your injector details where they should be (assuming you have entered real numbers and not just guessed/left them on defaults). What Adam has suggested should get it to run, but in modelled mode you want your injector data to be pretty accurate before you start tuning it for real - ie you'll have to set your injector flow rate correctly at some point anyway, not just run a deliberately lower flow rate forever.
  15. cj

    Low Oil Pressure protection strategy question

    The warning light is simple enough - configure an aux output as GP on/off, label it "Oil pressure warning" or similar, and set the condition to "oil pressure < 30kpa" or whatever you decide is a good level. This output will be connected to the ground side of your warning light in most cases. the ignition cut you can do a couple ways but you'll probably end up setting a GP RPM limit (under engine protection). turn on GP limit 1, then in the GP limit 1 table, change the Y axis to "oil pressure". You now set the rpm limit to 10000 or something higher than you ever hit in all cells where you want the engine to run normally, and either zero or your idle rpm in all the "failure" cells (ie the low pressure+high RPM cells). you can also do some logging of normal oil pressure and tweak the table using this so that the threshold for "failure" is just below normal at every RPM. If you set the limit to 0 you will stall the engine. There is a startup lockout timer in the GP limit settings that you may need to set so you can actually get the engine to start and have the oil pressure stabilise before it starts limiting it. If you have e-throttle you have another option of setting a second ethrottle target table where the target value never goes above 5 or 10% (or 0 if you want to stall it). You then set the condition for switching to table 2 to be the status of your warning light. This way you can also add in low fuel pressure or any other protection conditions you want to cover by adding them as conditions for the warning light (which could also be a virtual aux if you want the warning light to use different conditions than the thottle table swap.
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