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Clubspectom

Traditional to Modelled

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Hi, I'm in the process of getting a flex fuel tune completed, but my tuner is new to Link. He had done a complete tune on Traditional for pump fuel (instead of modelled), but said he had trouble starting the car when switching to the modelled equation once we knew it was required. 

I've been researching a lot the last few days to help, and realise the importance of adding in the injector data before firing and knowing the tune will now be VE based. With the fuel table that is "left over" from the traditional tune, is there some generic multiplier you can use across the whole table to get started for modelled tuning, or can you leave it the same to start? 

It's a V3-4 ecu / WRX. 

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Did the exact same , went from traditional to modeled, nothing was transferable nor did anything in the main maps-fuel- work.In my case it was starting from scratch besides ign. that I could transfer.

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I've also recently switched from Traditional to Modelled.

I used one of the Basemaps that comes with PC Link (maybe the Monsoon one) as a starting point. I am road tuning, though, so having a basemap with roughly the right shape helped a little - if you're dyno tuning then it's probably almost as quick to start from scratch again.

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You will be starting from scratch. 
First off you want to choose either modelled, or modelled - multi-fuel. For flex you would want multi-fuel
The fuel main setup is very important. You want to enter your base fuel pressure value whatever your actual fuel rail pressure is. (vacuum source to regulator disconnected and adjusted)
The more injector information, the better. ie - short pulse width adder table, dead times, etc. Be sure your injector rated fuel pressure is the correct value for the supplied short pulse width and dead time data. (those values change with different base fuel pressures) 
Usually warm up enrichment is set to "0" when you have your charge temp aprox. table setup correctly. 
Be sure your multi fuel setup information is correct for the fuel you will be using. 
Other then those basics, you will be starting from scratch on the VE table. 

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As others have said its a start from scratch scenario.  In traditional mode the fuel map represents fuel flow with a few other dynamic factors "baked in" to the numbers.  In modelled mode the fuel table represents air flow.  Although the two will have a similar shape they will usually be a completely different range of numbers.

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Thank you for the replies everyone. I'll let him know to use the Monsoon base map, as i just checked and it is modelled to start with. The V3/V4 base map is traditional.

I also have a set of ID1050X injectors, so all the info is available from Injector Dynamics, and I'm confident my base fuel rail pressure is 300KPA.

I spoke with my tuner yesterday and realised a few problems, and why I thought he was having issues. First off, he was trying to start the base tune (pump 98 fuel) on modelled multi, I'm sure this would have caused issues in itself having the extra tables available, as well as the blend ratio tables suddenly active (please let me know if this is wrong, as this is my interpretation);  he also wasn't aware that it was now a VE based tune. As soon as I told him you need to start with a full tune on modelled prior to going to multi, and that it is VE based, it made a lot more sense to him. I'm sure it will be a piece of cake with that info!

With the boost, ignition and AFR tables from the traditional tune, can these be carried over? This is more for my knowledge.

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7 minutes ago, Clubspectom said:

With the boost, ignition and AFR tables from the traditional tune, can these be carried over

Yes with a couple of assumptions. Changing traditional to modelled only affects fuel delivery, so as long as you re-tune fuelling to the same point, all other things will be equal. Eg it doesnt matter how you calculated the amount of fuel to add, X fuel at Y boost pressure is still safe at Z degrees of ignition. Unless you changed mechanical components of the engine/turbo/etc, those tables relate mostly to what is good/safe on your engine, not how much fuel it needs.

The bit where you have to at least think about what you are doing though, is that to start with, your fuelling will be off, and so whatever ignition values you had previously used might be potentially dangerous if you are initially running a bit leaner while re-tuning.

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18 minutes ago, cj said:

Unless you changed mechanical components of the engine/turbo/etc, those tables relate mostly to what is good/safe on your engine, not how much fuel it needs.

The bit where you have to at least think about what you are doing though, is that to start with, your fuelling will be off, and so whatever ignition values you had previously used might be potentially dangerous if you are initially running a bit leaner while re-tuning.

Thanks cj.

No mechanical changes at this point. I had a full fuel system upgrade (ready for a flex tune) just prior to this, but my tuner did a traditional tune on 98 pump fuel before he was alerted to the requirement for modelled when doing a flex tune.

I've been watching the HP Academy videos on doing a G4+ Flex Fuel setup, so I think I've got my head around the process software wise - I think this was my tuners biggest issue, not knowing the process for set up of PCLink. Sort of like going from a Windows PC to a Mac. 

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4 hours ago, Clubspectom said:

I'll let him know to use the Monsoon base map, as i just checked and it is modelled to start with

I suggest just export/import the Monsoon fuel table.  Keep the rest of your map as is.

 

3 hours ago, Clubspectom said:

so I think I've got my head around the process software wise - I think this was my tuners biggest issue, not knowing the process for set up of PCLink. Sort of like going from a Windows PC to a Mac. 

Tell him he should be using the help file if in doubt, the settings and process is pretty well explained.  You can hit F1 for an context sensitive help on almost any setting in the ecu or software.  I will paste a copy of the multi-fuel set up and tuning guide below.

jCDXrfk.png

 

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Got it all up and running tonight, started making good progress on the fuel table...then the ignition started to breakdown :( new coil pack and plugs ordered. 

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