JZX110 start up base map issue

[Hermit]

Hi all

So basically I've repined my jzx110 to run the link p&p altezza ecu and I'm looking to get the car to start up.

I tried to get it to run but it wont fire up. I'm sure I've missed a few things when trying to configure the ecu so I've attached the base map that I'm using hoping someone can have a look at it and point me in the right direction where I'm going wrong

 

Cheers

Toyota Mark II JZX110 1JZ VVTI.pclr 

[Adamw]

Do you have realistic RPM showing in the software when cranking (~200RPM)?

A couple of things to fix:

1. Trigger offset looks wrong, normally around 200deg on this engine, if you havent already checked with a timing light, set it to 200 and check with timing light.
2. E-throttle target table is all zeros.  Put something like 4% in the top row and interpolate to 100% in the bottom row as a starting point.
3. Idle ign table is messed up.  I suggest you just turn this off for now and fix it once you have it running.
4. IAT sensor is not working.  Fix it or turn it off if it doesnt have one.

Otherwise the rest of it looks like it is close enough to get it to run.

If it doesnt run once the above are fixed then do a short log of it cranking and attach it here.

[cj]

can you post a log of it trying to start please? Need that to give you the "right" answer.

Things that might be a problem just from the tune file

1) you trigger 1 offset is not anywhere near the expected 1jz or 2jz angles, have you checked it with a timing light?

2) your ethrottle target table is all zero's. its also got a  axis of MAP rather than AP%. It *might* start but it wont run well like this.

3) your inlet air temp is showing an error value - maybe its wired wrong?

4) your tp main & tp sub are about 3% apart. have you calibrated this?

[Hermit]

2 hours ago, Adamw said:

Do you have realistic RPM showing in the software when cranking (~200RPM)?

A couple of things to fix:

1. Trigger offset looks wrong, normally around 200deg on this engine, if you havent already checked with a timing light, set it to 200 and check with timing light.
2. E-throttle target table is all zeros.  Put something like 4% in the top row and interpolate to 100% in the bottom row as a starting point.
3. Idle ign table is messed up.  I suggest you just turn this off for now and fix it once you have it running.
4. IAT sensor is not working.  Fix it or turn it off if it doesnt have one.

Otherwise the rest of it looks like it is close enough to get it to run.

If it doesnt run once the above are fixed then do a short log of it cranking and attach it here.

Hi Adam

the RPM doesn’t change when cranking, it’s just as shown. Should this move when cranking?

I thought I had the trigger offset set at 200  but I’ll set it to that and fix the other things and try start it.

I’ll upload a log if I have no luck 

thanks 

2 hours ago, cj said:

can you post a log of it trying to start please? Need that to give you the "right" answer.

Things that might be a problem just from the tune file

1) you trigger 1 offset is not anywhere near the expected 1jz or 2jz angles, have you checked it with a timing light?

2) your ethrottle target table is all zero's. its also got a  axis of MAP rather than AP%. It *might* start but it wont run well like this.

3) your inlet air temp is showing an error value - maybe its wired wrong?

4) your tp main & tp sub are about 3% apart. have you calibrated this?

Hi CJ

yes I had calibrated the E throttle. But I’ll go through it again and fix the other issues you’ve high light and see how it goes.

will up load the log later if have no joy getting it to start 

 

thanks 

[Hermit]

So I've got the car to fire up, just about. doesn't run great and it isn't taking throttle at all really. press the accelerator to the floor and it doesn't rev at all. 

I've attached a log file as asked.

Also noticed when I press the brake pedal the engine fan comes on?  

Thanks

  

 JZX110 Log File.llg

[cj]

What size injectors are you running and what fuel? Its pushing 17ms of fuel at 3-400 rpm so I suspect its running very rich unless they are very small injectors or methanol.

There is something still badly wrong with your ethrottle. In the log, TP Main & Sub do not follow each other (sometimes they are both 100%, sometimes TP main is only 70-80% while sub is at 100%). I see the same pattern with your AP main & sub. Can you check that you have mixed up the pin assignments - ie that both sensors on the pedal are wired to AP main & sub - and NOT something like both AP sensors running to the 2x "sub" signals?

 

[Hermit]

25 minutes ago, cj said:

What size injectors are you running and what fuel? Its pushing 17ms of fuel at 3-400 rpm so I suspect its running very rich unless they are very small injectors or methanol.

There is something still badly wrong with your ethrottle. In the log, TP Main & Sub do not follow each other (sometimes they are both 100%, sometimes TP main is only 70-80% while sub is at 100%). I see the same pattern with your AP main & sub. Can you check that you have mixed up the pin assignments - ie that both sensors on the pedal are wired to AP main & sub - and NOT something like both AP sensors running to the 2x "sub" signals?

 

Hi CJ

Injectors are Denso 570cc and it's just normal pump gas.

do I have to enter the cc of the injectors into the ecu?

when the car runs it does run very very rich. 

I have calibrated the E Throttle serval times. 

Ive it wired like this 
Aux4 is throttle control motor-
Aux9 is throttle control motor+

Aux2 is throttle control motor clutch -

TPS main is to AN VOLT 6
TPS sub is to AN VOLT 5

APS main is to AN Volt 3
APS sub is to AN Volt 2

[cj]

Ah, looking at your tune again, both the TP & AP sub sensors max out at about 65% and are configured this way in the calibration, so those readings are in fact normal on your car. 

In traditional fuel tune (which you have configured) you dont specify the injector size directly, just an arbitrary number of milliseconds as a reference point for all other fuel calculations. In your case this is currently 16ms, and should probably be dropped to 8, then adjust as needed as it warms up to get warm idle at correct lambda. Then work on the rest of your fuel table. There is a guide on this in the help files under "first startup" or similar.

Modelled mode does take into account all the injector parameters, so you need to decide early on which one you will use as the fuel tables are completed different, and a lot of the warmup&compensation tables need different values on a modelled tune

[Hermit]

21 hours ago, cj said:

Ah, looking at your tune again, both the TP & AP sub sensors max out at about 65% and are configured this way in the calibration, so those readings are in fact normal on your car. 

In traditional fuel tune (which you have configured) you dont specify the injector size directly, just an arbitrary number of milliseconds as a reference point for all other fuel calculations. In your case this is currently 16ms, and should probably be dropped to 8, then adjust as needed as it warms up to get warm idle at correct lambda. Then work on the rest of your fuel table. There is a guide on this in the help files under "first startup" or similar.

Modelled mode does take into account all the injector parameters, so you need to decide early on which one you will use as the fuel tables are completed different, and a lot of the warmup&compensation tables need different values on a modelled tune

I’ll change the fuelling to 8ms and see how that goes.

I’ll recheck the wiring. 
Would the polarity of the relay for the E Throttle on Aux 2 affect my E Throttle?

 

[cj]

Yes it would but i'm not familiar enough with the 2JZ throttle wiring to tell you which value is correct. If you have it wrong/off I think you can only get the TPS to move to 40 or 50%. 

Set throttle control to "always run" then press the pedal & watch the throttle blade, does it move all the way open and closed?

[Hermit]

22 minutes ago, cj said:

Yes it would but i'm not familiar enough with the 2JZ throttle wiring to tell you which value is correct. If you have it wrong/off I think you can only get the TPS to move to 40 or 50%. 

Set throttle control to "always run" then press the pedal & watch the throttle blade, does it move all the way open and closed?

It will be a few days before I’m near the car again to check that.

I’ll let you know as soon as I can.

I appreciate all your help mate. 

Cheers   

[Hermit]

So I've managed to get the car to start up and idle but as soon as I press the throttle it wont take the gas at all and nearly stalls.

I've tried to calibrate the E throttle but it says error 16??

Have the log attached of the car running

JZX110 link altezza ecu log.llg

[Adamw]

The throttle is working ok, it still doesnt look like the pedal part is calibrated correctly, but it is close enough for it to start and run ok.

I would say you dont have enough fuel.  Did you try adjusting the master fuel up and down when it is running?  With 570cc injectors I would expect the master fuel to be between 10 & 15ms, but just adjust it by feel - move it up or down until it runs the best.  Have you confirmed base timing with a timing light?

[cj]

can you post the PCLR file you got it running with please? your fuel table seems to have changed quite a lot - the first map showed ~45 in the cell where its idling, but the new log says its using a fuel table value of ~90. If you are still in traditional mode you need to drop the value in the fuel table by quite a lot or you will max out the fuel table under power (max value is 150). Lets say you halve every value in the fuel table, then you need to take on Adam's point above about the master value doubling.

Traditional mode fuel equation is (simplified) injector ms = master fuel value x map value [100kpa = 1, 50= 0.5, etc], x fuel table number. so at 100kpa with a fuel table value of 100 you would get the same pulse width as master fuel. This also means you can double the master value, halve every cell in the fuel table, and still get exactly the same injector pulses. 

When I suggested you drop your master fuel, it was because your startup fuel pulse widths were very high, but I suspect you have changed a lot more than just the master value for that new log.

[Hermit]

On 11/10/2019 at 3:09 AM, cj said:

can you post the PCLR file you got it running with please? your fuel table seems to have changed quite a lot - the first map showed ~45 in the cell where its idling, but the new log says its using a fuel table value of ~90. If you are still in traditional mode you need to drop the value in the fuel table by quite a lot or you will max out the fuel table under power (max value is 150). Lets say you halve every value in the fuel table, then you need to take on Adam's point above about the master value doubling.

Traditional mode fuel equation is (simplified) injector ms = master fuel value x map value [100kpa = 1, 50= 0.5, etc], x fuel table number. so at 100kpa with a fuel table value of 100 you would get the same pulse width as master fuel. This also means you can double the master value, halve every cell in the fuel table, and still get exactly the same injector pulses. 

When I suggested you drop your master fuel, it was because your startup fuel pulse widths were very high, but I suspect you have changed a lot more than just the master value for that new log.

I’ll upload it when I get a chance cj, I’m away with work and won’t get near the car or laptop to do it.

[TNCMAviator]

Sorry to bring up an old thread but how did u manage with your tune? seeing that 2 years have pass I assume u got everything fixed and running? or..

I am also having some issues with my setup.. running JZS171 in my IS300 using the AltezzaLink so our setup should be the same.. however I am on stock injectors and running Modelled Mode. Do u mind sharing your setup with me so I can compare mine?

On 11/11/2019 at 4:05 AM, Hermit said:

I’ll upload it when I get a chance cj, I’m away with work and won’t get near the car or laptop to do it.