Setting Base Timing V6 WRX

[MrTatems]

Hi All,

Trying to set the base timing on my 1999 wrx.

So far I have used the trigger calibration locking the timing to 10 BTDC, cranking the engine (Fuel turned off) I have set the trigger offset to 345 to show 10 BTDC on the Crank Pulley with a timing light.

The issue im having setting the trigger delay. 

The car starts and idles (at 10 BTDC) but when revved it drops back to between 20-50 BTDC and i cant seem to fix it with the trigger delay. Am I doing something wrong?

also as a side note, the car idles ok outside the trigger celebration but the timing shown on PClink differs from what I see on the engine. 

 

any help will be much appreciated 

[Adamw]

The delay setting will only account for a couple of degrees.  Was the set base timing screen open when you were revving it?  

Is this a plug-in ecu?

[MrTatems]

Hi Adam, Thanks for your response.

The trigger calibration pop up was on the screen during this  (see photos, one is crank pulley at idle then the other two are while increasing the rpm (pop up still open))

And this is all on the PnP ecu using the supplied (but calibrated) base map.

After talking to some more people there is a thought that this could be caused by the timing belt jumping a tooth, does this sound plausible to you?

Otherwise we're thinking that the ecu is not reading the rpm corectally (faulty cam/crank angle sensor) 

my current plan of attack is to test the timing with the stock ecu with the timing locked (two green plugs under the dash) 

Can you think of anything else to try?

Thank you again for your help with this

[Adamw]

Do us a trigger scope at idle and attach it here.  Here's how:  https://1drv.ms/v/s!AiYbYlZQuRHPmidU5V2CmTcv6t2y?e=UDcotj

[MrTatems]

Heres a Trigger scope at idle (TL2) Im not sure if this works though (followed the instructions in the video) photo TL2(log) is trying to save to trigger scope as a jPeg but it misses most of the screen.

TL1 is a sceenshot of my screen after the trigger scope and Log 2 is just a standard log with slight acceleration in the middle.

Hopefully you can get more out of these than I can.

 

TL2.llg Log2.llg

also as an additional test I set the entire ignition map to 10 and ran it normally, once again It was at 10 when at idle but went increasingly retarded as RPM increased (PC link still show'd 10 BTDC) 

[Adamw]

I dont see anything wrong here.  Is >ignition>ignition setup>ignition main>spark edge set to falling?  

Does it have the factory ignition system?  Stock coils wasted spark?  Is it a dial back timing light?  How is the timing light connected?

Can you attach your map also.

[MrTatems]

Hmm thats interesting, because other than the igniting retarding as revs increase the car does seem to idle well (havent driven it yet)

The main ignition is definitely set to falling

the ignition is not 100% stock, I replaced the factory central coil pack and leads with a coil over plug setup from a GD wrx. I kept the same wasted spark wiring though.

The timing light is a standard inductive timing light from repco: https://www.repco.com.au/en/tools-equipment/workshop-equipment/diagnostic-scan-tools/meco-12v-timing-light/p/A4486161

It is connected by clamping around both the 12v and trigger wire to the #1 coil (front drivers side)

My Map is also attached.

Map 191115.pclr

[Brad Burnett]

Please put a modified spark plug wire between the ignition coil and spark plug and try again. 

Basically cut off the end that would go to the coil, strip back about an inch, fold the stripped section over and shove into coil, then electrical tape into place.  Attach timing light to plug wire.

This is a more accurate method of attaching a timing light.

 

Also i believe that your retard amount may be doubled due to the multiple spark from the wasted setup.  

[Adamw]

Im no subaru guy, but from memory a 99 wrx would have had a dumb coil with separate ignitor originally, you have now changed to coils with ignitiors built in.  Did you remove/bypass the factory ignitor?

[Brad Burnett]

2 hours ago, Adamw said:

Im no subaru guy, but from memory a 99 wrx would have had a dumb coil with separate ignitor originally, you have now changed to coils with ignitiors built in.  Did you remove/bypass the factory ignitor?

did not even think about this.  but ive got money on this.

[MrTatems]

Thanks for the continued help.

Ill try using a standard lead for the timing light,

There is no separate igniter on 1999 wrxs it is built into the coil pack

Swap carried out as per to fix an intermittent spark issue:

http://www.perth-wrx.com/vb/mechanicals/42930-99-00-gc8-coil-pack-gd-coil-plug-conversion.html

[Adamw]

Ok, hopefully it is just a timing light issue then, triggering off the primary side like you have often doesnt work well.  Report back once you have tried triggering from a plug lead.

[MrTatems]

Quick update, using a lead between the coil pack and the spark plug fixed the problem. Thanks for helping out with everything. Cheers

[Stevieturbo]

On 11/15/2019 at 8:10 PM, Adamw said:

Im no subaru guy, but from memory a 99 wrx would have had a dumb coil with separate ignitor originally, you have now changed to coils with ignitiors built in.  Did you remove/bypass the factory ignitor?

99/00 model 4 tower coil has the ignitor built in.

 

earlier cars used external ignitors. So there is no real issue changing to the later COP coils.