3sgte trigger error? 4 days of misery mystery no start

[Chris Simms]

Hi all,

Am Totally at my wits end... could some of you guys please have a look over my logfiles and tell me what im missing...

The situation...

Was running an old LINK G1 with zero issues. Car started any weather first crank and ran ok.

Bought a LINK G4 Atom 2 wire in at a great price. Followed all the instructions to wire it up. However now it will NOT START.

 

Have done an injector and ign test. All good. 

Have checked fuel pressure/flow. All good.

Visually checked plug 1 fire with a big yellow/white spark. All good.

Have tried more/less crank enrichment. No change.

Played with IAC during cranking. No change.

 

The guys i bought it off had a quick look at the cranking log and said the batt voltage looked low. Found the offending earth. Now is 12.6v.

Tried to drop the trigger threshold for trigger one (is seeing it, but comes up error at 0.18v as the lowest threshold is 0.2v)

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE lol someone tell me what im missing. Spent 4 days solid in the cold head scratching and now i give up.

Logfiles are from yesterday. Will try and post the ones from this morning too with the ground fixed.

Thanks alot.

Chris

 

3sgterevstartingissue (1).zip 3sgterevstartingissue.zip log 2 no start g4+ st205 (1).csv

log 4 no start.llglog 3 no start.llgToyota Celica ST205 G4+ Xtreme Plugin#1lf.pclrtrigger log (1).llg

[Chris Simms]

Its an atom 2 wire in ecu btw running the st205 basemap out the basemap folder.

says the ignitions locked on the bademap to 15 btdc. Shouldnt this be 10?

Also triggers in the basemapsay "multitooth" but theres an option for 3sge vvti (3sgte non vvti) would this be closer?

Sorry for dumb questions. Im just baffled. 

Dizzy was set to 10 btdc on the old g1 using a timing gun. Not touched this since installing the new ecu.

Do I need to lock the g4 timing to 0 from 15 and then re adjust the dizzy to 10 btdc?

Thanks

Chris

 

[Brad Burnett]

the timing lock is for the trigger calibration setup.

Have you calibrated the triggers?

You will want the current setting of "multitooth" not the 3sge vvti setting.

Your log has the trigger errors maxed at 255 and spikes from a nice cranking rpm to north of 7k rpm.  

Try calibrating the triggers and see what you get.  I like to calibrate with fuel mode set to off and trigger lock at 0 degrees.

[Chris Simms]

Hi Brad

Really appreciate your help. ive not calibrated the triggers. 

Feel like a douch asking but how do I calibrate the triggers?

Do i..... Set the trigger lock to 0 deg in the software then keep turning the dizzy till thate crank mark matches at 0 with my gun so they are sync'd? 

How far do they have to be out to stop it starting?

Im thinking its gotta be timing too. Still confused tho as to why its so out on the basemap thats spose to get you running. Pls forgive my ignorance :  )

Many many thanks again

Chris

[Adamw]

The trigger is not happy in the logs, its no use doing a trigger calibration until that is sorted.

Does your dizzy still have 24 teeth on the bottom and a single tooth on top? (some dizzys may have been modified for the G1)

Drop your trigger 2 arming threshold down to a similar setting to your trigger 1.

[Chris Simms]

Hi Adam

My dizzys still completely stock mate. Apart from irridium plugs the entire ignition system is stock import st205.

How do i begin to make trigger happy? Strip and clean the dizzy? Started like a champ literally any weather on the G1+ this is why im so confused.

Will try dropping trigger 2 to 0.2v the same s trig 1 tmrw morning and let you know how i go.

What else should i try?

Thanks again

 

Chris

 

 

 

[Brad Burnett]

I would start by pulling the dizzy cap and rotor off and snap a pic.  

I have encountered dizzys in the past that had funny patterns stock and not just the 24 and 1.  Seen some 12 and 2, 24 and 4, etc.

[Chris Simms]

Hi Brad

Thanks for the reply. Will take a pic tmrw. Think I need to take a step back to fully understand all this...

Am I right in thinking because trigger 1 isnt goin above 0.2v and giving a signal to fire the coil this is the starting issue or is the trigger/rpm reading messing up cranking timing etc?

Thanks again

Chris

[Ducie54]

These are the settings from a MR2 file i have. Hope that helps

[Chris Simms]

Ducie54... MUCH MUCH appreciated dude.

Will go try these now and see what happens.

Thanks

Chris

 

[Chris Simms]

Hi all

Just tried to crank her over again with the triggers settings etc above. Still no joy. Wont let me upload the logs either for some reason says they are too big.

Took off the dizzy cap but couldnt get the rotor off, will get some allen keys from work tonight and try again tmrw.

Counted the teeth as best as i could and it looks to be 24. Ive owned he car since 2006 when it was imported bone stock from japan so i know the dizzy etc is still totally stock st205.

Gonna knock up a neighbour now and try to crank her with a timing light on. Will try and get those logs posted asap.

Many thanks

Chris

[Brad Burnett]

Did you happen to also count the teeth on the secondary trigger wheel(trigger 2) while in there?  

[Chris Simms]

Sorry i couldnt see that much Brad then the heavens opened on me  (you gotta love English weather).

When i wired the G4+ into the G1 loom i went.... (As instructed)

Trig 1 and 2 on the G4 to trig 1 and 2 on the G1.

Wired the 2 big earths on the G4 to the 2 bigs earths on the G1

2 sig ground wires on the G1 got spliced together and went to ground out on the G4.

Odd things that dont make sense today...

On both the link ecus neither the SHIELDED GROUNDS pins is used? Been told all the grounds are linked internally in the G4 would this make any diffrence?

Another wierd one... What looks to be the the dizzy G- pin on the st205 patch loom i got with the G1 ages ago (its hard to tell till i double check the origional loom wire colours) looks to go to an ISC wire on the G1?

Summised so far that i might need something goin to the sheilded ground on the G4?

Many thanks

Chris

 

[Adamw]

6 hours ago, Chris Simms said:

What looks to be the the dizzy G- pin on the st205 patch loom i got with the G1 ages ago (its hard to tell till i double check the origional loom wire colours) looks to go to an ISC wire on the G1?

G- is the trigger ground, this needs to be connected to one of the G4+ "Ground out" or "Shield/Gnd" pins.

[Chris Simms]

Gonna ignore the g1 loom tmrw and go shielded ground pin on the G4 direct to the st205 loom and see what gives...

Just had a pal at work with better eyesight than me check over the G1 loom adaptor....

ignore what I said about G- goin to an iac wire...

G- and E1 pins appear to be going to be spliced together and going to one of the sig ground pins on the G1 plug.... AND to the ground out pin on the G4 if this all makes sense...

I left the g1 plugs attached btw just incase this all went t1ts up and I hadda move the car.

if all grounds are connected inernally this should be right? Right?

Thanks

Chris

[PeterHay205]

Hi Chris,

I recently wired in a Storm G4+ into a ST205 and it started straight up on the base map. My trigger wiring (from the distributor plug to the Storm) and trigger config are attached. I don't think the tuner had to change any of the trigger config at all.

When you mentioned that you have left the G1 plugs in place, and added the G4+ plugs on, did you also shield the trigger wires between the G1 plug and G4+ plug? I'm not sure what length of wire you are talking about and the trigger signals are quite low-level. Maybe there is some interference creeping in there?

Hope this helps.

 

[Chris Simms]

Hi Peter,

Thanks so much. Loaded it up and tried it but no joy STILL.

Dizzys off. Can CONFIRM it has 24 teeth and the reluctor air gaps are within spec and i couldnt get a 0.40mm feeler between either of them (trig one voltage only 0.18v even tho in spac). Close em up to 0.25???

Gonna try cleaning the reluctors with connector cleaner n see if i get a better signal. Plug looks ok no sign of corrosion etc.

Have tried to calibrate the crank ith my timing gun and it wasnt far off 0.

Totally at my wits end now. 2 weeks no car nightshift tonight on me bike lol.

 

Thanks

 

Chris

[Adamw]

21 hours ago, Chris Simms said:

(trig one voltage only 0.18v even tho in spac)

How are you measuring this? Do you have an oscilloscope?  The ECU will need a minimum of 0.2V to trigger.  If you spin the distributor with a cordless drill do you get stable RPM showing in the software?

 

[Chris Simms]

Hi Adam

Im going off what my laptops saying. Just done another log but its saying its too big to upload.

Was cranking like it was trying to start. Trig 1 cranking voltage was 0.18v jumping up to 0.29v for a sec. Still loads of trigger 1 errors.

Have repinned the dizzy direct to the ecu and moved the wires away from the coil to eliminate interfence as much as i can..... Ne to trig 1..... G1 to trig 2.... G- to shield ground.

Map readings ok. TPS ok. (both calibrated). iat ok. ect ok. Stableish cranking rpm around 200 - 300 rpm.

Plugs cleaned. Fresh fuel. Fuel return line removed to comfirm loads of flow. FPR set to 45 psi engine off.

New battery fully charged never had a prob cold cranking at 4am etc in the cold but the atom says only 9 - 10v while cranking so gonna feed this from somewhere else. Will pm you the logfile now and maybe try and upload it for me for everyone to have a look over.

2 weeks still nothing. Ready to burn my car.

Many thanks again for helping me. Appreciate everyone and every comment or idea.

Chris

 

[Chris Simms]

 Still trying to upload this log but its still saying its too big and not having it either.

My emails [email protected] if anyone has time to look over this new one for me please, PM me on here or to my email, and ill email you the file.

Bet its summat daft. Def timing related.

Was trying to go this morning so pretty sure im getting a spark... if still intermitent due to trig 1 low threshold errors.

Ive had the dizzy off and crawled all over it.

Car ran and started PERFECT prior to trying to upgrade to the G4 atom 2 for the trusty old G1 plus... made a vid for a pal a few weeks back... excuse my awful accent... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiJegneVgSA. Car was sat at freezing overnight n fired as always first click. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CM-rYxUifk0

 

Even tho ive been without a car now for a fortnight and its silly cold here in the UK biking to work at 4am in the awful weather on a positiveive actually learnt quite a bit in the last 2 weeks listening and learning from other members. This is a great site.

Been daydreaming about her firing up and being able to drive to work tonight lol.

Just PM'd you my latest log Adam - Thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koglfpqLTiw

The log ive sents from a few mins before i took this vid this morning while it was actually trying. Running for a few secs awfully shaking like a sh@tting dog then dying.

REALLY appreciate everyone taking the time to help me.

Many thanks again all

Chris

 

[Adamw]

4 hours ago, Chris Simms said:

Was cranking like it was trying to start. Trig 1 cranking voltage was 0.18v jumping up to 0.29v for a sec.

No where in the software does it show trigger voltage, I suspect you are looking at arming threshold which will just report whatever value you have in your arming threshold table.  So this doesnot tell you anything about your trigger.

 

4 hours ago, Chris Simms said:

Just done another log but its saying its too big to upload.

You can share a link using google drive, onedrive, dropbox, wetransfer etc.

 

4 hours ago, Chris Simms said:

Still loads of trigger 1 errors.

Its not going to run right until that is fixed.  I think you need to get someone to get an oscilloscope on it so we can see what is wrong with the trigger signal.  Another option would be if you know someone with a Storm or Xtreme that you can plug-in to get a triggerscope.

 

Can you attach or share your tune also.

 

[Chris Simms]

Hey Adam

ill try and get hold of a trigger scope. 

Whilst cranking I pressed f12 then went to triggers. Top left hand side it shows a voltage of 0.18v while cranking from trig 1. Thought because this is under 0.20v thats why the coils not firing hence the error (llow voltage error?). 

Soon as im home il post the basemap and settings again. 

Been reading through old posts about people having trig 1 errors and no start due to the dizzy reluctor air gap not being tight enough to produce enough voltage (even tho in spec) to give a clean signal above threshold. Just done five 12 hr night shifts so please excuse me for being fuzzy/dense. Appears my brains not firing either at the mo :  )

Thanks for the fast reply

Chris

[Chris Simms]

 

Random thought...

Its a st205 rev 3 head mated to a forged st185 rev 2 block.

The rev 2/3 belts are slightly diffrent as one has 1 less teeth (think 1 is 89 the others 90 or something from memory) cant remember which one I needed when I built the engine (runs great used the one I was told to on toymods at the time to mate the revs together properly).

Maybe I need tweaked 185 settings even tho both revs share the same 24-1 dizzy.

Im running Ross 8.5:1 piston same CR as the stock st205 not 8.8:1 so virtualy everythings the same except for the block and cambelt (wish I could remember which belt I used)

Would this account for the trigger errors???

st205 map expecting to see X number of teeth per revolution hence the errors???

Many thanks again.

Chris

[Chris Simms]

Hey all

STILL cant get the base timing set.

Could someone please give me some Homer Simpon style instructions on the best way to?

No matter what I do after locking and setting the timing at 0 as soon as I come out the calibration box it shoots advanced n will not run. 

I can pm logs and a basemap if anyone can figure it out. 

No car now since the end of Nov. Im literally about to throw in the towel now. 

Thanks

Chris

[JMP]

are you pressing enter after typing the trigger offset before closing the box?  If you type the number and click into the ignition delay box or even click the "done" button it wont stick.  You have to type the number, press enter, then click the done button and do an ECU store (CTRL-S) before it will stick.  The offset number box will turn blue after you press enter, then it's ready for you to click done and do a store