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Mercedes e55 no start (help please )

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Hi to all ,

i wired extreme g4 to 98 Mercedes w210 E55 but the car doesn't start . I got weak spark at cranking .

my plan is direct spark + sequential injection so i wired the Mercedes coils (dual plugs) as driver 1 = cylinder 1 , driver 2=cylinder 2 ,......

trigger 1 is reluctor sensor(crank sensor)         trigger 2 is hall sensor (cam sensor )    flywheel is 60-2

i am keeping the stock ecu to make transmission ecu happy so ect , iat in share with link ecu still not calibrated properly .

i am not sure where is the problem , settings or may be the Mercedes Bosch coils although when i test the coils i got strong spark .

please i need help .

i attached the tune file .thank you w210 e55.pclr

٢٠٢٠٠٢٢٤_١٣٠١٠٧.jpg

٢٠٢٠٠٢٢٤_١٣٠١٠٧.jpg

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Are the coils smart coils that have the igniter built in? To check measure the resistance between the signal wire and the 12V supply.

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8 hours ago, Simon said:

Are the coils smart coils that have the igniter built in? To check measure the resistance between the signal wire and the 12V supply.

hello dear simon ,

the resistance is .5 ohms .

can you please check my current settings at the tune file as well ?

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1 hour ago, mohammed said:

the resistance is .5 ohms .

Those are non-amplified coils, you will need to wire in ignitors or change to coils with built-in amplifiers.

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42 minutes ago, Adamw said:

Those are non-amplified coils, you will need to wire in ignitors or change to coils with built-in amplifiers.

THANK YOU adamw. 

But How i know the suitable coils? 

How about the video that show the triggers that no proper synch Taking place While cranking, seems cam signal interupting or not consistant? Is it normal? 

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Smart coils will have 3 or more wires and the resistance between power and signal will ne in the k to m ohms range.

The coils you have will be fine if you fit an igniter in between the ECU and the coils.

Trig 2 will often flash at cranking speed as it is only a single pulse in two turns of the crank.

But basic set up should be I am not able to open your file for some reason.

 

Trig.PNG

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Hi again ,

i replaced the coils with smart ones , now i am getting good spark at cranking but still the car not working !!

i checked everything but still stuck . i put some fuel at intake manifold also no luck , my suspect the car flood of fuel may be ?

 

M.R simon , i sent you my tune file to your email and please have a look perhaps you find the fix .  beside i attached it here again .

thanks to all .

w210 e55.pclr

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Your trigger settings do not match what Simon gave you above.  Fix the ones highlighted in pink to match Simons example.

yYdphsu.png

 

I would also suggest you change these two cells in your trigger 1 arming threshold table:

a4dJV8t.png

 

Have you confirmed that ignition timing is correct with a timing light when cranking?  If so and your 234deg trigger offset gives correct timing then you can also try subtracting 360deg (so try -126deg).

 

The next step is to do a log when it is cranking and attach that here.  How to do log: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P1LRANeO4A

And also do a trigger scope when cranking and attach here.  How to do trigger scope: https://1drv.ms/v/s!AiYbYlZQuRHPmidU5V2CmTcv6t2y?e=kc5yTL

 

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On 3/5/2020 at 1:12 AM, Simon said:

Smart coils will have 3 or more wires and the resistance between power and signal will ne in the k to m ohms range.

The coils you have will be fine if you fit an igniter in between the ECU and the coils.

Trig 2 will often flash at cranking speed as it is only a single pulse in two turns of the crank.

But basic set up should be I am not able to open your file for some reason.

 

Trig.PNG

 

8 hours ago, Adamw said:

Your trigger settings do not match what Simon gave you above.  Fix the ones highlighted in pink to match Simons example.

ok i will adjust that , for trigger 2 pull-up i leave it off because the camshaft sensor still connected to the oem ecu i only tab the trigger 2 input wire to the link ecu , can that make the problem ?

yYdphsu.png

 

I would also suggest you change these two cells in your trigger 1 arming threshold table:

what numbers should i put ?

a4dJV8t.png

 

Have you confirmed that ignition timing is correct with a timing light when cranking?  If so and your 234deg trigger offset gives correct timing then you can also try subtracting 360deg (so try -126deg).   No i haven't confirmed timing , it was difficult to reach crank pulley for reading timing with light , other way to check ?

and where i find trigger offset setup ?

 

The next step is to do a log when it is cranking and attach that here.  How to do log: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P1LRANeO4A

And also do a trigger scope when cranking and attach here.  How to do trigger scope: https://1drv.ms/v/s!AiYbYlZQuRHPmidU5V2CmTcv6t2y?e=kc5yTL

 

 

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29 minutes ago, mohammed said:

ok i will adjust that , for trigger 2 pull-up i leave it off because the camshaft sensor still connected to the oem ecu i only tab the trigger 2 input wire to the link ecu , can that make the problem ?

Pull-up off is fine in this case.

 

30 minutes ago, mohammed said:

what numbers should i put ?

Copy the red numbers from my picture.

 

31 minutes ago, mohammed said:

No i haven't confirmed timing , it was difficult to reach crank pulley for reading timing with light , other way to check ?

and where i find trigger offset setup ?

You need to confirm with a timing light, there is no other option.  You may be able to paint a new TDC mark on the pulley underneath or somewhere where it is easier to see.  Triggers>calibrate>set base timing.

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1 hour ago, Adamw said:

Pull-up off is fine in this case.

 

Copy the red numbers from my picture.  ok dear .

 

You need to confirm with a timing light, there is no other option.  You may be able to paint a new TDC mark on the pulley underneath or somewhere where it is easier to see. that what i am going to do .

i will do some logs and scopes then report back .

  Triggers>calibrate>set base timing.

 

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On 3/7/2020 at 1:01 AM, Adamw said:

Your trigger settings do not match what Simon gave you above.  Fix the ones highlighted in pink to match Simons example.

yYdphsu.png

 

I would also suggest you change these two cells in your trigger 1 arming threshold table:

a4dJV8t.png

 

Have you confirmed that ignition timing is correct with a timing light when cranking?  If so and your 234deg trigger offset gives correct timing then you can also try subtracting 360deg (so try -126deg).

 

The next step is to do a log when it is cranking and attach that here.  How to do log: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P1LRANeO4A

And also do a trigger scope when cranking and attach here.  How to do trigger scope: https://1drv.ms/v/s!AiYbYlZQuRHPmidU5V2CmTcv6t2y?e=kc5yTL

 

Hi, 

I checked by Timing light but nothing appeared at crank pully!! 

So i tried to adjust the triggers offset at calibrate section also doesnt work. When i input the value - 126 and pressed (done) nothing changed, How should adjusted?! 

Beside the scope doesnt record any signal, i pressed capture but also nothing!! 

My osciliscope does record the signals. 

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I decides to open Holden v6 base map and guess what !?

the car stars and idle !!!   May be it is related to trigger offset .

now , the trigger settings are different , how it starts ?! and i can rev up the engine , i tried to adjust ignition timing and there is a respond from engine.

i attached log file and the tune file . please i need explanation 

my w210 e55 start.pclr after start.llg log 1 trigger issue.llg

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17 hours ago, mohammed said:

So i tried to adjust the triggers offset at calibrate section also doesnt work. When i input the value - 126 and pressed (done) nothing changed, How should adjusted?! 

You need to hit the enter key, you should see the number turn a blue colour when the change is applied.

 

17 hours ago, mohammed said:

Beside the scope doesnt record any signal, i pressed capture but also nothing!! 

Did you click capture when the engine is turning?

 

14 hours ago, mohammed said:

I decides to open Holden v6 base map and guess what !?

the car stars and idle !!!   May be it is related to trigger offset .

now , the trigger settings are different , how it starts ?! and i can rev up the engine , i tried to adjust ignition timing and there is a respond from engine.

The holden trigger mode is pretty similar to what you where using before except it has 4 teeth on the cam - I suspect it run just because the offset must be closer than what you where using before.

Because the 4 teeth on the cam shaft it will only start sometimes and other times the timing will be off by 360 deg so you will need to change back to the multitooth/missing mode and do the offset calibration.  If you get timing correct but it still wont start then you just need to add or subtract 360deg from your offset.

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1 hour ago, Adamw said:

You need to hit the enter key, you should see the number turn a blue colour when the change is applied.  i missed that .

 

 

Did you click capture when the engine is turning?  yes i did . attached 

 

The holden trigger mode is pretty similar to what you where using before except it has 4 teeth on the cam - I suspect it run just because the offset must be closer than what you where using before.

Because the 4 teeth on the cam shaft it will only start sometimes and other times the timing will be off by 360 deg so you will need to change back to the multitooth/missing mode and do the offset calibration.  If you get timing correct but it still wont start then you just need to add or subtract 360deg from your offset. I really need some more explanation for trigger offset , i dont understand the concept very well . what number should i put and why ?

 

crank -cam mercedes e55.jpg

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Hello, 

Can you please tell me what numbers should i put at calibrate (triger offset)? 

I mean thr numbers close to my condition, just estimation? 

Should i try numbers above 360 or lower? 

Positve or negative? I am really lost here. 

THANK YOU 

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20 hours ago, mohammed said:

Did you click capture when the engine is turning?  yes i did . attached 

The triggerscope you attached shows you had Trigger 1 set to optical/hall rather than reluctor when you captured that scope so check that you have now correctly set trigger 1 to reluctor.

 

9 hours ago, mohammed said:

Can you please tell me what numbers should i put at calibrate (triger offset)? 

I mean thr numbers close to my condition, just estimation? 

Should i try numbers above 360 or lower? 

Positve or negative? I am really lost here. 

I have no idea as I have never touched one of these engines before.  Since the Holden mode worked then try starting about 275 or -85.  You just need to adjust the trigger offset until the timing marks on the pulley line up.  If you cant even see the timing marks that adjust in larger steps like 30deg until you can see the mark, then move in smaller increments when it gets closer. Once you have the marks lined up then if it doesnt start you then need to add or subtract 360deg from that value (as there is no way to know if you are sparking at TDC compression or TDC exhaust stroke when checking with a timing light).

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2 hours ago, Adamw said:

The triggerscope you attached shows you had Trigger 1 set to optical/hall rather than reluctor when you captured that scope so check that you have now correctly set trigger 1 to reluctor.

 

I have no idea as I have never touched one of these engines before.  Since the Holden mode worked then try starting about 275 or -85.  You just need to adjust the trigger offset until the timing marks on the pulley line up.  If you cant even see the timing marks that adjust in larger steps like 30deg until you can see the mark, then move in smaller increments when it gets closer. Once you have the marks lined up then if it doesnt start you then need to add or subtract 360deg from that value (as there is no way to know if you are sparking at TDC compression or TDC exhaust stroke when checking with a timing light).

Got it sir. 

I tried again with holden triger and doesnt work as you told, it was coincindent. 

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10 hours ago, mohammed said:

Got it sir. 

I tried again with holden triger and doesnt work as you told, it was coincindent. 

Hi, 

I become to a point that tried various numbers offsets but i was not lucky to find the correct Timing i even not see the Timing marks !. 

Then i load the holden triger this time i switched to reluctor as trigger 1, the vhichle starts fine as usual but when i calibrate the trigger offset i can see 10 degree by the gun light as i increase to 20 degree at the spark table i noticed that Timing marks goes toward 0 dtc is that normal at this stage? 

By the way, when i was programming the oem ecu there is negative values at spark tables. 

Should i keep the holden triger settings and starts from their? 

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I still need help here please. 

On 3/10/2020 at 2:18 PM, mohammed said:

Got it sir. 

I tried again with holden triger and doesnt work as you told, it was coincindent. 

Hi, 

I become to a point that tried various numbers offsets but i was not lucky to find the correct Timing i even not see the Timing marks !. 

Then i load the holden triger this time i switched to reluctor as trigger 1, the vhichle starts fine as usual but when i calibrate the trigger offset i can see 10 degree by the gun light as i increase to 20 degree at the spark table i noticed that Timing marks goes toward 0 dtc is that normal at this stage? 

By the way, when i was programming the oem ecu there is negative values at spark tables. 

Should i keep the holden triger settings and starts from their? 

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Finally i see the marks at the pully flactuating between 10 - 20! WITH OFFSET 145, now what number should i put at middle value? 

And HOW YOU CALCULATE IT? 

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When in calibrate mode the timing should be stable and not move. If you are seeing movement that would indicate something is not happy.

Can please do a trigger capture with the Trig one set as reluctor and post here

 

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8 hours ago, Simon said:

When in calibrate mode the timing should be stable and not move. If you are seeing movement that would indicate something is not happy.

Can please do a trigger capture with the Trig one set as reluctor and post here

Of course, first i need to replace the starter motor. 2 damaged since now. 

 

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Hello ,

 

car starts at -83 trigger offset and the timing light was reporting 10 degree , but when i shut off the car then try to start it again it doesn't starts at same trigger offset !! this is strange ? 

here is crank/cam scope and the tune file .

cranking.jpg

idling.jpg

starts finally.pclr

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20 hours ago, mohammed said:

car starts at -83 trigger offset and the timing light was reporting 10 degree , but when i shut off the car then try to start it again it doesn't starts at same trigger offset !! this is strange ? 

Did you perform a store before shutting off?  

 

20 hours ago, mohammed said:

here is crank/cam scope and the tune file .

Scope looks good.  

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