52mm gauge compatibility - Banks iDash or Perfect Tuning or ??

[BenLewisMAV]

Hi Everyone

I've just purchased a Link G4+ Plug in Ecu (with CAN lambda, 3 bar maps sensor, associated cables) to go on my Series 6 FD3S RX-7.

In the process I'm getting rid of my Apexi Power FC, FC datalogit, TechEdge Wideband w/52mm gauge and hopefully most of my Greddy 60mm datalink warning gauges (Boost , Water temp, Oil Temp, Oil Pressure, maybe Single EGT and Fuel Pressure) and Twin 52mm EGT gauge.

What I'd like to do is declutter the dash, maybe keep a couple of the gauges (EGT and Fuel Pressure?) and then use a 52mm 'smart' gauge in the steering column cowl holder that currently sits behind the wheel (shown with a 52mm boost gauge in the image below);

I don't want to go full digi-dash as I want to retain the original cluster (although I have got the NZEFI twin-CAN harness if I change my mind later). The idea being that I can just focus on a few gauges whilst on the track, and then flick between keeping an eye on boost, key temps, pressures, etc during tuning.. And also rely on the warning functions built into the 52mm gauge to warm me if something goes wrong..

What I need to know is - which gauge? I don't need logging (the ECU can take care of that). I think I prefer the Banks iDash 1.8 as it looks a bit neater, but is there a way to make it display the following items?

• AFR from CAN Lambda
• Boost
• Oil Pressure
• Oil Temperature
• Coolant Temperature
• Front Rotor EGT
• Rear Rotor EGT
• Fuel Pressure (maybe not essential if I keep the gauge)

 

I've done a bit of digging and they seem to offer 2 versions :

 

The 66563 Banks iDash 1.8 for aftermarket CAN bus ECU, apparently able to display the following from the Link G4+;

- Which seems to cover everything except EGTs (which is weird because apparently that is put out over the CAN bus as standard by the Link G4+ Plugin?), also I'm assuming that 'Lambda 1' is/could be the same as values from the CAN lambda? 

OR 

The 66560 Banks iDash 1.8 for Universal CAN OBDII Vehicles, that appears to be able to display all of the standard OBDII PIDs.. here is an example;

A lot more channels (but vehicle dependant), neither of them appear to get me exactly where I'd like to be, but close. I'd also like to have the freedom to change/add some later too, such as if I add additional thermocouples for pre and post intercooler (Link G4 Inputs allowing).. I believe it's possible to configure some outputs over CAN (assuming you just create a custom/proprietary PID and assign some translated parameters to it?), but is it possible to configure the value of any parameter to be broadcast on one of the standard PIDs? (e.g. broadcasting a parameter for Water Injection Tank Level % from the ECU on to PID52 'Ethanol Fuel %' ?)

If the above is true, then it seems to makes sense to get the iDash 66560 Universal CAN OBDII gauge and repurpose some of the standard (300+) PIDs, rather than be tied into the 29 values offered on the iDash Aftermarket ECU version (if I understand it correctly?). It's quite likely they might appear on the gauge by a different name (or scale) but I should be able to get it pretty close in most cases.

 

By comparison, the Perfect Tuning Gauge is able to display the following;

• RPM
• MAP (Manifold Air Pressure)
• MGP (Manifold Gauge Pressure)
• Barometer
• TPS
• Injector Duty cycle 1 and 2
• ECT (Coolant temperature)
• IAT (Intake Air temperature)
• Battery voltage
• MAF (Mass air flow)
• Gear
• Injector timing
• Ignition timing
• Cam IN and EX positions
• AFR1 and 2
• ECU error code
• Fuel Pressure
• Oil temperature
• Oil pressure
• Speed sensors of each wheel
• Knock on cylinder 1-8

 

Again, no EGT.. I know in both cases the EGT could be added directly to the gauges themselves, I'm planning on logging EGTs in the ECU so it seems a bit crazy to duplicate. Not entirely sure how configurable the gauge unit is, everything is done via a webpage over Wifi. Whether it would be possible to add channels for custom PIDs I don't know. Certainly would be a big plus if so!

 

Anyway I hope I've explained what I'm trying to achieve and that it makes sense.. Just need to get my head around what the ECU and gauge can do and how to get them to work together before buying them.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Adamw]

There are 2 EGT's available in the OBD2 output, no oil pressure though.  Supported OBD2 PID's are listed in the pic at the bottom.  Be aware that OBD2 is a request/response system so is quite slow compared to continuously broadcast CAN streams that the other options use.  You may get 10Hz max.  

So I would probably tend to avoid the OBD2 options if it were me.

Not many of the common aftermarket ECU's have EGT's in their data stream.  One of the few I can think of would be Haltech.  So you could look at the Haltech version of the Perfect tuning or Banks gauges.  We could then set up the CAN output in the Link to duplicate to Haltech CAN stream.  However the way the Haltech CAN stream is structured uses up the available CAN ID's quickly.  The  RX7 plug-in only has one CAN port so that means you have 6 CAN slots (ID's) to use, the list of channels you want to send will use up 5 of them (as below).  You mentioned also a CAN lambda which will use up the last one.  This leaves you no spare.  Are your EGT's going to be CAN bus or just analog?  

Haltech ID's:

1. Manifold press, RPM, TPS = 0x360
2. Lambda1-4 = 0x368
3. Oil & Fuel press 0x361
4. EGT 1 & 2 = 0x373
5. Oil temp, coolant temp & Air temp =  0x3E0

 

You can also look at http://www.btigauges.com/haltech.html or the Haltech/GaugeArt CAN gauge (I cant find any information on what channels this has available).

Also take a look at the Plex tuning uSDM (https://www.plex-tuning.com/products/new-plex-micro-display/), maybe a little more pricey but it is very nice and has fully user configurable CAN so you can display anything you like and will only use up 1 or 2 CAN slots in the Link.

 

 

 

[BenLewisMAV]

Thank you for the information, very useful, hopefully avoid a few pitfalls! Yes I've seen that PID list before, that's why I was confused that the Banks iDash didn't support EGT (PID78 and PID79).. Perhaps it's set up for an older firmware/version.

After watching some more videos it's looking as though the Banks iDash gauges are generally slower to update (the logging features mentions 10hz but I couldn't find much more info than that). Either way the Plex uSDM gauge is interesting and maybe in a different league, I'm getting some prices locally for it at the moment. It's obviously a departure from the 52mm gauge fitment and style-wise but compatibility/functionality is king!

If I go with the 102-Pro version it has EGT/TC amplifiers and 4 inputs built in (taken from the manual);

 

So I understand it's possible to configure the CAN packets at both the G4+ and the Plex gauge to transmit pretty much any data TO the gauge, but is it possible to transmit the inputs from the Plex uSDM back across the CAN to be logged/acted upon by the ECU? (- I assume this is how Lambda CAN works?). I've seen options for transmit in the Plex software but am not sure how the G4+ deals with this?

If this is possible/sensible then I can also do away with my plans for a separate EGT amp and 0-5v lineariser, and still use the ECU to limit performance if there is a discrepancy between front and rear rotors. Ideally I could also use the inputs for other things such as a boost setting dial/switch without taking up precious I/O on the ECU itself..

 

Thanks again for the help

[Adamw]

Yes the plex device can transmit EGT out and the Link can receive it and use it for whatever you like.  

[Brad Burnett]

OP have you looked into the Toucan display?

[BenLewisMAV]

Thank you to everyone for the help.

No I haven't come across the Toucan display, looks pretty powerful (and made here in the UK too?). I've seen some videos of near OEM looking installs, very tidy if you have a suitable space.

I ended up ordering the Plex uSDM 102pro earlier in the week and it arrived yesterday, pretty impressed so far. Seems to do everything I was hoping so far. Just need to figure out how to use the CAN 'soft button' feature (basically how to set what one of the 4 selectable 'messages' actually does). 

Anyhow here's some pics; 

 

[BenLewisMAV]

the Plex uSDM 102pro hooked up to the Link G4+ plugin (but currently shown just reading from the built-in thermocouple amp);

 

Receiving the top three rows from the ECU over CAN, the bottom from the gauge's built-in TC amp; 

 

Nice and responsive to skin temperature! (sadly not so much when embedded into an EGT or Water temp sensor!.. not the fault of gauges however, just a question of thermal mass!);

 

Also managed to get the CAN set up so that the data from the inputs on the dash are transmitted back to the ECU. The fact PCLink uses the CAN id in Decimal and the Plex software uses Hex caught me out at first ( noob oversight !)    I had set them both to '1001' -  instead of '1001' on PCLink & the '3e9' on the Plex software!:

 

For me this is pretty handy as it means I've got an extra 4 analog/digital inputs and integrated 2-channel EGT amp. Particularly useful on the Series 6 (originally 8-bit) RX-7 Plug-in. 

I also had a little play with the Alarm function on the dash (set at 30degC). The LED flashes red and the screen inverts yellow and black... should be pretty hard to miss when on track!:

So next I need to figure out;

• ..How to configure 'Soft buttons'.. and generally how they work
• ..How to go about creating new parameters (or editing the names of existing ones) to suit the new sensors/switches I'm bringing over CAN to PCLink
• ..The best way of building/controlling 2 modes for the car:  'street' @ 16psi and 'fast/track' @ 22psi w/Water Injection (only have access to 97-99RON UK fuel sadly). I started building a system using a micro to go alongside the (admittedly old school!) Power FC; it used a pre-existing dashboard switch with in-build LED to turn the high boost/WI system on and then blink slowly to show it's been selected, a solid LED-on when the WI pump was active/flowing and a crazy fast blink (and mode returned back to 'street' boost) when a warning signal was received from the WI pressure or tank level switch. I imagine there's a whole bunch of ways I could integrate something similar between the Link and the Plex dash, just got the figure out the most I/O friendly way!

Anyway I've just started working my way through the HPAcademy Link G4+ tutorials so hopefully they will shed some light on the best way to approach these. 

[dx4picco]

nice write up

[BenLewisMAV]

4 hours ago, BenLewisMAV said:

So next I need to figure out;

• ..How to configure 'Soft buttons'.. and generally how they work

So it's not particularly well documented in the manual (maybe not at all?) but I've had a little play around in the software and think I've figured it out.

The fact that the uSDM100 only had 2x messages to choose from;

and the uSDM102 had 4x;

..which helped in figuring it out, as it tallys up with the number of transmits available on each device (102pro shown below);

Each of the selectable messages ('Message 1', etc) in the button configuration drop-down is a line in the Transmit Setup area. To use, setup a CAN message to transmit and to make sure it isn't constantly streaming to the ECU (like the EGT value was), 'ON EVENT' needs to be chosen.

It seems a shame that a simple ON/OFF trigger (such as '00' and '01' for On and Off -  or 'FF' as shown below) could eat up all of the available transmit frames/messages if using the uSDM100, half if using the 102pro.. Unless ofc I'm missing something?  If using the 102pro I imagine most would use an analog/digital input for switching anyway, which would have minimal impact on CAN availability..

..then in the page configuration choose the relevant message to assign to the relevant button. Then setup the Link ECU to listen on that CAN id to use it as an input/trigger.

I just renamed/repurposed one of the existing data CAN data buffer channels (Knock 7 & 8) but I'm sure there's a proper way of doing it where you can create a channel just for the purposes of the button?

Anyway for a micro dash unit it's pretty capable!

 

[BenLewisMAV]

3 hours ago, dx4picco said:

nice write up

Thanks, I appreciate the help so am happy to share my findings (Actually the support is one of the reason I chose Link over the Adaptronic, which is also very popular on UK RX-7s)

If it helps someone else with similar questions that's also a win.

[Adamw]

17 hours ago, BenLewisMAV said:

.How to configure 'Soft buttons'.. and generally how they work

You would receive these as CAN Dig inputs.  You can then use them to turn on/off functions or in virtual auxes etc.

 

17 hours ago, BenLewisMAV said:

How to go about creating new parameters (or editing the names of existing ones) to suit the new sensors/switches I'm bringing over CAN to PCLink

Not really possible.  There are some native inputs that can be assigned as CAN inputs such as oil an fuel pressure, but the list is fairly short.  There are 8 generic "CAN analog inputs" but these can be re-named and cant have units assigned - they will always be displayed as "volts".  You can still use the generic CAN analog inputs for axes on tables or switching things on/off etc but they are a bit less useful when without labels and units.

 

17 hours ago, BenLewisMAV said:

..The best way of building/controlling 2 modes for the car:  'street' @ 16psi and 'fast/track' @ 22psi w/Water Injection (only have access to 97-99RON UK fuel sadly). I started building a system using a micro to go alongside the (admittedly old school!) Power FC; it used a pre-existing dashboard switch with in-build LED to turn the high boost/WI system on and then blink slowly to show it's been selected, a solid LED-on when the WI pump was active/flowing and a crazy fast blink (and mode returned back to 'street' boost) when a warning signal was received from the WI pressure or tank level switch. I imagine there's a whole bunch of ways I could integrate something similar between the Link and the Plex dash, just got the figure out the most I/O friendly way!

As above, you would receive the input as a CAN DI, then you can do whatever you like with that - swap boost/fuel/ign tables, change RPM or boost limits,  turn on WI, flash a light etc.