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B18CR Turbo start and idling issues


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Hey Guys, 

I have recently got my B18CR turbo EG project somewhat finished and ready to start -  below is a rundown of the basic setup to give you a picture. 

B18CR unopened (11.1-1 CR), t3/t4 turbo,  Skunk 2 70mm TB, 1000cc Xpurt injectors,  500hp Fuel pump, Link IAT pre TB in intercooler pipe, Link 4 bar map sensor, link g4+ PNP (HC96). AEM X series wideband over CAN. NGK BKR7E copper plugs - 0.60mm gapped. 

I have got the stock base tune map and adjusted the MS fuel number from 22 standard to 12 or so. I found the car runs ok here and once warm and the warmup enrichment compensation is not active it idles around Lambda 0.97 - 1.00. I have run through all the normal first start procedure - TPS Cal, MAP Cal and have set the base timing with the light.

The car starts after a bit of cranking but definately isnt smooth or easy and once running i need to keep the throttle slightly open as it just dies as soon as it the revs start to get anywhere near 1000 rpm and trying to restart the car once it is a bit warm is impossible and will not start at all.  Please note the car doesnt and has never run a idle air control solenoid (not sure if this is making things worse or not) as the previous owner has blanked it off and installed a skunk2 70mm throttle body and never had any issues idling on the standard ecu or on the link when it was still non turbo. 

I have attached the log of first start to get it running and obviously it dies. Please note i am messing with the MS fuel number while the cars running (between 11 and 13) to see what it likes and ive also messed with the ignition numbers in the very low load/idle areas to see if that can help it stablize the idle. I have also attached the log of cranking it the second time to try and get it going again with no joy at all. 

I also note the trig count error number is climbing which is obviously a problem also so i have attached a trigger scope pics and logs. 

Any help is much appreciated guys - just want to get it running and idling ok so i can get it out the garage - up the drive and on the trailer. 

Dropbox link to logs etc 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jxaai450ikyn7kj/AAD3Iit4dO7n5EmHhNwpWlpPa?dl=0

Thanks 

Kenian 

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Can you share the tune as well.

Also, the cranking triggerscope looks a bit of a mess with large spikes over it, can you do a couple more while cranking (save as log).  Make sure the engine is turning when you click capture and keep it cranking for about 5 seconds after clicking capture.  

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3 minutes ago, Adamw said:

I also later added a comment asking for more triggerscopes too that you may have missed.

sorry did miss that - will do that shortly - cheers

11 minutes ago, Adamw said:

I also later added a comment asking for more triggerscopes too that you may have missed.

Added to the box - thanks 

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There is some spikes of electrical noise coming through on the trigger signal, you can see it more on trigger two but there is also a similar influence showing on trigger 1.  This is where the trigger errors are coming from as the ECU is receiving more "teeth" than it expects on trigger 2.  

Its hard to guess what would be causing this.  The first thing I would try is disable spark by setting ignition mode to off, then do another triggerscope to see if those spikes disappear.  If so then we can concentrate more on the ignition system.

Is all of the ignition system stock?  Has any of the wiring to the distributor and/or coil been modified?  If still distributor it may also pay to check the rotor phasing, turn the engine over by hand to about 20BTDC and pull the distributor cap off and make sure the rotor is nicely centered under a post.  

ChMVO0N.png

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ahh i see. I will run another trigger scope tommorow morning with the ignition mode off. Yes it it still the stock distributor system and no it has not been modified but the person who did the type R engine conversion really hacked the wiring together and have had some strange electrical issues with sensors getting 12v instead on 5v. Grounding issues, Map sensor signal issues and IAT issues so wouldnt surprise me at all if a wiring issue causes me more headaches. 

Other than the trigger issue is there anything in the tune or logs that stick out as major reasons why the car wouldnt idle well or hot restart? 

Will post the new trigger scope tommorow. 

Cheers

Kenian 

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17 minutes ago, Kenian said:

Other than the trigger issue is there anything in the tune or logs that stick out as major reasons why the car wouldnt idle well or hot restart? 

I suspect the startup issue is due to the trigger issue as dwell is all over the place when you are cranking.  It looked like it was idling close to ok at the end of the log so not sure what you mean by wont idle well.  

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Right ok hopefully can get that trigger issue sorted. Well it wont idle at all without the throttle being open slightly - as soon as i take my foot of the gas it just dies completely. At the end of that log i didnt kill the car it just died as soon as the revs come down below about 1400 rpm or so. 

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I dont see any obvious tune reason for the stall, so it is probably trigger related too, the trigger error counter does clock up one count just before the RPM falls away.  Once the ecu has lost sync it will need to wait until it sees the cam tooth again before it can re-sync and spark again which is potentially 2 revolutions with no spark or fuel. 

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The scope looks quite a bit cleaner now.  So it suggests ignition system is creating some noise or ground offset somewhere.  I would look at the grounds first.  Make sure the ignitor has a clean ground path direct to the block.  Make sure the ecu ground pins have a good ground to the block.  Make sure the battery has a good connection to the block.

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Hi @Adamw

After a bit of investigating i found that under a whole wad of electrical tape was the earthing for the main sheilded bundles that house all the trigger wiring. This had about 3 spade terminals and 3 lengths of wire to get it to the ECU. I seperated them cleaned them up a bit ran one new wire from the ecu earth pin to the 2 sheilded cable earths and terminated those nicely and actually seperated them out from the rest of the loom as who knows wtf else is going on in there that could be causing electrical interferance. Instantly the car started better and revved all the was through the rev range, idles nicely with no throttle input and restarting it once warm is no issue at all. I have added to the dropbox another log and another trigger scope of it now - does this look clean enough or is there still electrical interference that needs addressing further? 
Much appreciated.
Kenian. 

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There is still a little spike every time a spark plug fires but it is looking much better.  I suspect you will be able to get the ecu to ignore these using the arming threshold.  As long as they dont get massively bigger at higher load.  

e7ohPjx.png

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Great - i will go through all the other grounds tommorow and make sure they are all well grounded. Now i know what i am looking for in the trigger scope i can just see if ive made any improvements after checking/cleaning/tightening all the other ground points. 

Thanks Again. 

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