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Guest |150|

Audi AAN trigger problems

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Guest |150|

Hi,

I´m having problems with a v88 i a audi. the ecu is not compatible with the "trigger scope" function.

60-2 crank mounted Reluctor sensor. oem audi. Tried 2 diffrent sensors

1 open window optical sensor on the cam. oem audi.

i think its trigger related. Engine starts fine, idles just fine, without any trigger errors.

If i lock the ignition, the ecu is not able to keep this locked, it will move when i increase the revs. (the ignition delay time does not affect this, i´ve had it at max while reving the engine, and its still moving.) if we revers the polarity on the crank sensor the ignition will move faster/jump in the same direction.

there are no trigger errors if i stay below 2000rpm. the trigger errors counts starts counting the second i go above 2000rpm.

i´ve tried all the combinations on the triggers that are possible just to eliminate, and the problem is either the same or worse.

I´ve read that the vems has had same kind of rpm related trigger problems due to the sync window not happening at the same time as the -2 missing teeth on the crank. did not think this would affect the vi-pec. it´s the only thing we haven´t tried. could that be the problem or does anyone know what else might cause this?

this ecu was recently upgraded from a very early firmware to the newest in one big step. had to do this twice for the ecu to accept it,...

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Guest Hic

Try to run it without cam sensor, just for testing.

V88 is dead rock solid, i did a lot of audi's.

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Guest |308|

I use 60-2 in my audi s2 AAN, set below values the trigger 1 Arming Threshold

my setup Arming

0.1, 0.2, 1.3, 1.3, 1.3, 1, 0.5, 0.5

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Guest |150|

the car had a haltech previously which could not handle the oem 135 teeth triggering, wich is why it´s set up with 60-2

we moved the cranktrigger today. and used the 135 audi setup.

there are no longer any trigger errors, but it´s not possible to lock the ignition timing.

the higher the revs the more the timing is retarded. the timing is drifting aprox 25-35deg.

when we lock the timing the realtime values displays 10deg regardles of revs.

Is there anyway that a firmware or software might be doing this? i noticed that there is a restore factory settings function in the ecu control tab, does that reset everything back to how it was when it was shipped? this is a old v88.

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Guest Dave-Kriedeman

If you are using a reluctor sensor, is the wiring polarity correct.

Reversed polarity on magnetic reluctor sensors can cause these weird issues.

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My pick would be the reluctor polarity is incorrect. Another one is using the wrong spark edge setting. (this often results in smoked coils though)

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Guest |150|

the spark edge is correct. no smoked coils and settings confirmed with Ben Stian.

the reluctor polarity has been cross checked for in booth the 60-2 and the audi 135 triggering.

in 60-2 it will jump instead of drift(trigger error = counts over 2000rpm)

in 135 it will drift a little more with one vs the other( no trigger errors ,regardless of rpm)

it´s a 3 pin reluctor sensor, would the car run without trigger errors if "sensor ground" and "shield" was mixed up?

does anyone have the pinout on the oem audi sensor? so we can check it against the info we have used.

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Guest |308|

ECU pin:

8 Camshaft Position Sensor (Hall Sender), Pin #2

47 Crankshaft reference position sensor (62 degrees BTDC on cylinder #1)

48 0V reference for crankshaft sensors.

49 Crankshaft speed sensor (135 teeth on flywheel starter ring)

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Guest TVT

hi,

First of all im new to this forum and thank you all for helping me with the Audi S4 project:)

I checked the crank trigger polarity today, black wire to pin1 and white wire to pin2 on the oem reluctor sensor, looks correct. Also disconnected the shield wire from the sensor connector, but didn't help. I also updated to the newest firmware just to try.

With trigger 1 filtering set to level 1 the ignition timing starts to jump big steps when I pass a certain rpm, if I put filtering to level 3 its not jumping big steps but still drifts far away. This is in locked timing mode. I dont see any change from setting ignition delay from 20-200us.

Im not sure what to do next..

I tried to attach the file, but get "The extension pcl is not allowed"

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Guest |308|

use attachment .zip file

Sutup audi 5 cyl 20V OEM triggers:

trigger setup: Audi 135 teeth, Sync Pulse - Cam

trigger 1 - Reluctor, Level 1

trigger 2 - optical/Hall, Level4, pullup ON, Edge - Falling

Callibrate Trigger offset -72 degrees

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Black wire is trigger +(A8) and should be wired to pin 2. Wire pin 1 to A7. Try it and see if there is any change.

Mine ran fine with filter level 1. These are my values. Tested up to 8000 rpm. Timing rock solid.

Arming voltages:

0 - 0.5

1000- 1

2000- 1.5

3000- 1.5

4000- 0.5

5000- 0.2

6000- 0.2

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Guest TVT

I can try to change trigger + (a8) to pin 2, and trigger ground (a7) to pin 1 tomorrow and see. But im sure we allready tried this before.. I can also change the arming voltage and see if that helps. I have different values from 3000rpm and up so maybe that can help me out. I also want rock solid timing!! hehe

I have now attached the file as zip.

audi aan 120312.zip

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Guest |150|
Ignition Drive 6 - Engine Fan? Ignition Drive 7 - Fuel Pump? - I will would not use.

why waste pwm outputs on simple on\off switching?

i use this whenever there are free ign or onj outputs, so i duobt that has anything to do with this.

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Guest TVT

found out somthing stupid today, but then I know for the future... I hocked up the timing light on the low voltage side of the coil for cyl#1 and was thinking that should be just fine since the manual for my previous car (nissan 200sx s14 sr20det)told me so. It had a cable loop sticking out from the valve cover for using a timing light. Since the OEM coils is hidden under the valvecover i had to measure before the coils and did not think i was a big difference.

I took off the coilcover today and ran ignition wires from each coil to the spark plugs and then measured on the high voltage side. Then everything is fine and ignition was around 20degrees out of position. That explaines why the exhasust is so hot and crazy quick turbo spoolup. Did not test much but looks like the trigger setup is working just fine. It was measuring the charging time for the coils and not the actual spark time, so ofcourse it made me crazy in the end!...

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use attachment .zip file

Sutup audi 5 cyl 20V OEM triggers:

trigger setup: Audi 135 teeth, Sync Pulse - Cam

trigger 1 - Reluctor, Level 1

trigger 2 - optical/Hall, Level4, pullup ON, Edge - Falling

Callibrate Trigger offset -72 degrees

I know this is a old thread but  maybe somebody knows why -72 degrees. 

Value for 135th Audi trigger should be -58 degree?

 

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For the offset it just needs to be what is needed to get the timing right.

But things that will effect what its will be the trigger one edge, Trigger 2 edge and its position relative to TDC.

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Thats true and I allways do this but all Audi AAN/ABY/ADU/3B Flywheels have the factory OT Mark on the same position and so the Hall window on camshaft. So the degrees should be in a range of 62-58...   thats why I am asking about the 72...

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3B engine doesnt have a cam sensor like the other, it does have a distributor in rear of the intake cam it take the trig2 from, not in front of cam wheel. Distributor can be rotated which explains why there can be different offset for the 3B vs the other.

The other 3 engines should have the same offset since everything is the same and "locked".

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Yes, thats right...  also the old AAN has hall sensor at the distributor dummy...  maybe thats the reason for the offset because Link does not care about the OT pin on flywheel...   on Motronic, the distributor hall window can not be shiftet that way because it has to match the OT pin...

...to much motronic in my mind :D

in a few weeks we will see what happens when my thunder is going into my first quattro...

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So finally my good old 5 cylinder 20VT is running with my new Link Thunder.

OT Trigger is indeed around -70. Maybe ist because of a shift between hall window on cam sprocket and the flywheel pin.

After doing lots of study and workbench pre-mapping the Link ECU, the engine started up with the first keyturn after 3 seconds.

For now, I am happy with the first 20min of engine runtime :-)

Edited by T4700

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