Audi AAN trigger problems

[T4700]

After a long break, I got back to my LINK Thunder.
The car was firing up with the first keyturn and has stable idle.

After warming up, I was calibrating the trigger with a timing light.
The OT trigger Offset is -70 deg. Reference timing was set to 0 deg.
Timing is stable until 3000 rpm. Above that, trigger starts to jump significant degrees after OT.

Trigger 1 Type Reluctor

Trigger 1 Filtering Level 1 (LOW)

Trigger 1 Aiming Threshold

0 - 0.5

1000- 1

2000- 1.5

3000- 1.5

4000- 0.5

5000- 0.2

6000- 0.2

Trigger 2 Type Optical/Hall

Trigger 2 Filtering Level 4 (High)

Trigger 2 Pullup ON

Trigger 2 Edge Falling

Sync Mode Cam Pulse 1 x

Any Ideas? Wiring and Polarity are checked.

Picture below are on idle.

Edited September 26, 2016 by T4700

[Adamw]

We cant see much in your trigger scope since it is zoomed out so much.  Can you do it again but before you take the screenshot change the time/div setting to something smaller - I forget what settings the software will allow but I think you will need a number more like 5 or 1 ms/Div to get it the image clear enough that we can see the wave form.

[Scott]

Those thin blue lines on Trig 2 are actually not present. This was a bug that only affected the Thunder, if you upgrade PCLink and Firmware you'll find them gone.

Scott.

[T4700]

Thanks for fast reply. I will update software and firmware. (I'm running 5.5.7.3059/3062/FW1.9R6)

But I guess, thats not the reason for my trigger issue.

I will also take a video of the behaviour.

 

Edited September 27, 2016 by T4700

[Scott]

Thanks, could you also put a trigger scope image from above 3000 RPM?

I'm not familiar with OT, what does this mean?

Scott

[T4700]

Thanks, could you also put a trigger scope image from above 3000 RPM?

I'm not familiar with OT, what does this mean?

Scott

Yes - will do this...

OT (oberer Totpunkt) = TDC
UT (unterer Totpunkt) = BDC

[Scott]

Danke!

[T4700]

Was not able to take a video. Above 3000 UPM the white mark on the damper is jumping to the right (yellow)

Changing aming voltage up and down or changing delay does not change anything.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2016 by T4700

[Adamw]

Hi T4700,

I don't see any big problems except that 135 teeth is always going to be difficult to work with for most aftermarket ecus - it will only take a very small amount of cam belt stretch or hamonics etc for the trigger 2 edge to jump across to the next tooth.

I suspect that the odd spike that is visible in some of your scope traces (example below) is probably a software artefact rather than a real problem.  Maybe Link techs will have more experience to share:

Have you tried using rising edge for trigger 2? 

Have you tried swapping polarity on crank trigger?

[T4700]

Hi T4700,

I don't see any big problems except that 135 teeth is always going to be difficult to work with for most aftermarket ecus - it will only take a very small amount of cam belt stretch or hamonics etc for the trigger 2 edge to jump across to the next tooth.

I suspect that the odd spike that is visible in some of your scope traces (example below) is probably a software artefact rather than a real problem.  Maybe Link techs will have more experience to share:

Have you tried using rising edge for trigger 2? 

Have you tried swapping polarity on crank trigger?

I can see the cambelt stretch on Trigger mark, when reving the engine up. The Trigger mark is shifting smooth a very small amount around the TDC mark. Very very small and smooth. But when you go over 3000rpm it is jumping to the yellow mark in one step. If you hold the RPM at the angular point, the mark is jumping forward and backward between those two points.

No, I dont tried to switch polarity or edge. Will try soon.

I heard of some 135th cars, running LINK without issues - I hope this will be possible for me too. 

Seems to be the same issue member "150" described in the top of this topic

Edited September 29, 2016 by T4700

[T4700]

I'm wondering about the LINK help file.

They say Arming Voltage should be half of the peak voltage.  If I follow this, arming voltage would be 10V

[Adamw]

T4700, the arming threshold at 1/2 peak is just a common rule of thumb but in your case since you have big voltage it is probably not necessary to go that high.  It doesn't appear to be a noise issue that you have so  can probably leave your arming voltage alone for now.  If you did want to try something different for arming voltage, I would just set it to a flat 3-5V for all RPM's (provided the voltage at cranking speed is above that).

From your explanation above that timing drifts with RPM, I think there is a good chance that your crank sensor polarity is wrong.  Can you try reversing the wires on they crank sensor.  You will need to redo the trigger cal after you change that.

[T4700]

Yesterday I reversed the polarity on the crank sensor and aligned the trigger cal. The significant 10 deg jump to the right is gone now.

When I rev up, I can see very very short (short like a flash) jumps of the mark to approx. 20 deg after TDC.

Except that, the mark is rock stable without a shift. Only short blips to the right.

I'm not sure if they are really present or if there is something wrong with the strobe signal. Will test this again with my old ECU.

I can confirm, that the arming voltage has no influence to anything, I can change the values from 1 to 3 V without anny difference and without any trigger errors.

I only reved up to 4000 rpm...  will test the full range soon - didnt want to provoke my neighbours yesterday ;-)

 

 

 

[VallyOrent]

Hi..i am a new user here. In my case the crank trigger polarity, black wire to pin1 and white wire to pin2 on the oem reluctor sensor, looks correct. Also disconnected the shield wire from the sensor connector, but didn't help. I also updated to the newest firmware just to try.With trigger 1 filtering set to level 1 the ignition timing starts to jump big steps when I pass a certain rpm, if I put filtering to level 3 its not jumping big steps but still drifts far away. This is in locked timing mode. I dont see any change from setting ignition delay from 20-200us.

https://www.7pcb.com/

[Scott]

Hi..i am a new user here. In my case the crank trigger polarity, black wire to pin1 and white wire to pin2 on the oem reluctor sensor, looks correct. Also disconnected the shield wire from the sensor connector, but didn't help. I also updated to the newest firmware just to try.With trigger 1 filtering set to level 1 the ignition timing starts to jump big steps when I pass a certain rpm, if I put filtering to level 3 its not jumping big steps but still drifts far away. This is in locked timing mode. I dont see any change from setting ignition delay from 20-200us.

Hi,

Please upload a copy of your trigger signals (from oscilloscope or ECU's TriggerScope). You may want to do this on a new forum thread/topic.

Scott

[T4700]

Yesterday I reversed the polarity on the crank sensor and aligned the trigger cal. The significant 10 deg jump to the right is gone now.

When I rev up, I can see very very short (short like a flash) jumps of the mark to approx. 20 deg after TDC.

Except that, the mark is rock stable without a shift. Only short blips to the right.

I'm not sure if they are really present or if there is something wrong with the strobe signal. Will test this again with my old ECU.

I can confirm, that the arming voltage has no influence to anything, I can change the values from 1 to 3 V without anny difference and without any trigger errors.

I only reved up to 4000 rpm...  will test the full range soon - didnt want to provoke my neighbours yesterday ;-)

 

 

 

Season is over now...  had no time to do further testing. Engine will be converted from Auditrigger to 60-2 this winter, so no more investigations necessary. Thanks again for fast support here.