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Vi-Pec V88 With Injector dynamics 2000cc


Bud

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Dear all

i start my mapping on my subaru.

But i had one problem. Now i use injector dynamics 2000cc.

The idle is not stable i try change fuel mapp but nothing . it was stabe when the car is rich nearly at 12-11 AFR but i want 14.7 at the idle impossible. the idle jump up (1500 rpm) to low ( 700rpm)

before i use 1000cc bosch and never i had problem the idle was perfect.

can you help me? some idea?

regards

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Hi Bud,

have you setup your 2000 cc injectors properly in the software, injector dead times etc,etc.

Can you post your PCL file so we can check your settings.

Also what fuel pressure are you running.

Are you planning on running ethanol or some form of race fuel to warrant using such big injectors.

Regards

Dave.

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Hi Bud,

have you setup your 2000 cc injectors properly in the software, injector dead times etc,etc.

Can you post your PCL file so we can check your settings.

Also what fuel pressure are you running.

Are you planning on running ethanol or some form of race fuel to warrant using such big injectors.

Regards

Dave.

Dear Dave

Thank you for your answer.

Normaly yes i made setting.

my plan is made E85 after fuel unlead

i join to my pcl can you check

fuel pressure is 3b or 43.5 psi

regards ludovic

V88 Base Map P1 SP98 2000CC.pcl

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  • 2 weeks later...

It's a small injector pulse width (IPW) issue that the vipec doesn't have a correction table for. I have the same setup. v88, id2000s, e85, 07 sti. You'll have to live with a rich idle on the vipec. The stock ecu (and cobb since it uses the stock ecu) has a small IPW correction table where you can enter data from Injector Dynamics and it will adjust for the non-linear flow of the injectors at such a small pulse width.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi Bud (Ludovic),

in your injector settings the dead times appear to be correct and you have the drivers set to Saturated which is also correct.

However when set to Saturated the ability to set the Peak Amps and Hold Amps is locked.

The default is Peak 8 Amps and 0.1 for Hold Amps.

The ID injectors require Peak amps of 4 amps and a Hold Amps of 1 amp.

However these injectors will still work.

You could also try lowering your fuel pressure to 38 psi and adjust the deadtimes accordingly.

Something else to consider is are those injectors compatible to your engine setup, regarding to spray pattern etc.

Regards

Dave.

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Will there be a update with a table for this?

I really cannot accept unnecessary rich idle or low-load.

Any other solutions to this problem?

Can you post your PCL file so we can have a look for anything unusual and also give us some engine specs etc.

Thanks

Regards

Dave.

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I have not tested my VI-Pec yet, this thread got me worried and it seems that there are several people having this issue.

I really don't want to run dual injectors, and I do really need this amount of fuel.

What's the problem with dual or staged injectors? I am running 1000 + 1200 and no issues.

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Streetcar, needs to look as stealth as possible.

Of course i could mount some on the underside of the intake., but if it is possible to use the ID injectors i will choose that.

I am not sure about how lean it is realistic to get it with the ID2k`s, do anyone have any input on this?

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Streetcar, needs to look as stealth as possible.

Of course i could mount some on the underside of the intake., but if it is possible to use the ID injectors i will choose that.

I am not sure about how lean it is realistic to get it with the ID2k`s, do anyone have any input on this?

I'm not having issues around 11.8-12.2 at 950-1000 rpm. I have ID2000s. 50 psi base fuel pressure. I couldn't go much leaner at 43.5 psi base fuel pressure either. I could. but it would start hunting because it was getting into the non-linear section of the injectors response. I don't really have an issue with idling that rich. Although it would be nice to be in the upper 13s. It's not like it's just dumping a ton of fuel in.

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I'm not having issues around 11.8-12.2 at 950-1000 rpm. I have ID2000s. 50 psi base fuel pressure. I couldn't go much leaner at 43.5 psi base fuel pressure either. I could. but it would start hunting because it was getting into the non-linear section of the injectors response. I don't really have an issue with idling that rich. Although it would be nice to be in the upper 13s. It's not like it's just dumping a ton of fuel in.

What about on low load cruising?

Are you able to lean it out?

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I'm not having issues around 11.8-12.2 at 950-1000 rpm. I have ID2000s. 50 psi base fuel pressure. I couldn't go much leaner at 43.5 psi base fuel pressure either. I could. but it would start hunting because it was getting into the non-linear section of the injectors response. I don't really have an issue with idling that rich. Although it would be nice to be in the upper 13s. It's not like it's just dumping a ton of fuel in.

Hi,

Just an idea, have you optimised your injector timing events around the idle and low load areas.

Set the injector timing map up as a 3D table.

Also are you running any IAT compensations with the fuel trims, WRX's have a nasty habit of having plenty of heat soak at low engine and vehicle speeds that lead to higher IAT which will possibly employ trimming of the fuel in these areas.

Remembering that the hotter the air charge the less air is available so negative IAT fuel trim values are employed, to correct the AFR's

Also if a lower fuel MASTER number is used the fuel cell number required will be higher which will also give better resolution and response to these injectors.

Regards

Dave.

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What about on low load cruising?

Are you able to lean it out?

Yes. no problem while cruising. only idle.

Hi,

Just an idea, have you optimised your injector timing events around the idle and low load areas.

Set the injector timing map up as a 3D table.

Also are you running any IAT compensations with the fuel trims, WRX's have a nasty habit of having plenty of heat soak at low engine and vehicle speeds that lead to higher IAT which will possibly employ trimming of the fuel in these areas.

Remembering that the hotter the air charge the less air is available so negative IAT fuel trim values are employed, to correct the AFR's

Also if a lower fuel MASTER number is used the fuel cell number required will be higher which will also give better resolution and response to these injectors.

Regards

Dave.

I'm at 7% on my master fuel. idle fuel numbers in the mid 20's full boost is around 68 ish. resolution is not an issue for me. I CAN lean out my idle, but it starts to hunt because the vipec is calling for miniscule pulse widths from the id2000s. This puts the injector down below 0.5 ipw and it is not linear that low. It really comes down to the vipec not having a "small ipw compensation" table. it would be ipw vs %compensation. Simon has already said there is no way to set it up as I have already asked in my own thread.

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Hi,

No worries I was just curious where you were with your settings, especially the intake air temp compensations, if it was running in an area where it was commanding less fuel or programmed to do so, it may cause the ECU to pull the injector below the ID's magic 1ms range.

Regards

Dave.

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Dave,

Does the i Series ECU suffer the same faith as the v Series with respect to locked/default amperage values when saturated injector drivers are selected? Or to put it another way, will the i Series ECU eventually offer some flexibility in times to come should the current instances which resemble that of the v Series ECU?

Thanks for your time, cheers!

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In the i and V series the currents are adjustable if you operate in peak and hold mode.

In saturated mode this is not required as the injector effectively limits the current. The ECU just provides a ground with no current limiting.

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Thanks for taking the time to respond Simon.

Can you clarify what was explained previously about the amp ratings for the v series ECU while operating in saturated mode, and effectively how this relates to the described non-linear operational conditions of the ID2000 injectors at idle?

I'm trying to get confirmation on what may have caused or contributed to the end user not being able to have the engine idle at the desired lambda value. I am not pointing fingers and poking short comings, I'm just trying to gain an appreciation for what was described.

Has Vi-PEC or someone within the dealer network tested various Injetor Dynamics injectors on the ECUs? Just to better assist end users who may experience complications like unto that which has been described?

Thanks for your time.

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Oh okay. I think I understand the response now.

Thanks for taking the time follow up. I wonder if the end user who started the thread took the time to follow up with the responses, I hope so as misunderstanding thing could really be bad all around.

Cheers!

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Hello all,

Just a quick follow up to the link posted by Dave, which has a fair bit of critical reading to take in.

In case anyone would prefer a visual translation you can have a look at the following youtube video

It's not a detailed reflection in translation of what you would have read but you can see a demonstration of the basics.

Cheers!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Good day all,

Thanks for the follow up with Injector Dynamics Dave. I should have also mentioned that I spoke with Andrew directly by phone at length about the described problem. Nice guy, quite pleasant in his response.

The YouTube link I posted shows Tony Palo testing some ID2000 on a bone stock B18C1 powered Integra. This motor didn't have any upgrade cam profiles but the engine management calibration was handled by MoTeC so the injector characterization data was pretty accurate, same with the fuel pressure regulation.

As you can clearly see from the PLM display the lambda valve at idle is quite rich but the idle quality is better than stock or at least near to what you would expect for decent motor. You have to remember the air flow at idle for motor with small displacement engines and quite similarly motors with cam profiles which have a high valve overlap or are fairly aggressive profiles. At these operational conditions you have to remember the pulse width operation is quite low, easily under 2 milliseconds.

In the link Simon posted you can see the scaling operation of the ID2000 as released or data logged by Injector Dynamics themselves. You can clearly see that the fuel flow to match the engine air flow for the engine at the described operational condition it is non-linear. However, to have the idle quality displayed the rich fuel mixtures is a small trade off as the injector is working correctly.

In the same breathe the Vi-PEC ECU is working correctly as can be expected, there was no fault with the electronic engine management calibration duties of the Vi-PEC at all. This should be accepted and understood quite clearly as the science (physics) of what was taking place with the described instance of the Subaru user was quite normal. To have the engine idle at a less rich lambda value would have gone deep into the non-linear operation of the injector. Again, actual engine air flow matching the lowest linear pulse width of the ID2000 injector.

Both products operated without fault.

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Can someone post a basic "how to" guide for the setup of these injectors?

I have been reading a lot about it but I'm a newbie at tuning, so it will take some time to sink in.

Running Vi-PEC iSeries Plug-in.

Master Fuel:

Master Fuel Trim:

Injector Dead Time:

ETC...

Where do I find the Peak amp and Hold amp setting?

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