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paulr33

EVO 8 V44 plugin - no knock or speed input?

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Hi Paul,

You could set it up as in the attached image. You would have to specify a level of knock. Unfortunately we don't have an option for 'over knock threshold'.

 

CE and Knock.PNG

Edited by Scott

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Hi, yes you are correct, the light will come on if Knock level is over 200. However, 200 is just a level of noise. As engine speed and load increase engine noise increases, this is why we have the knock threshold table adjustable. Below the current threshold is considered normal engine noise, above the current threshold is considered engine knock and the ECU then retards the ignition timing.

The problem is that if you set your 'Knock > Value1' to 200 (or whatever number you decide) you may trigger the light off normal noise at high RPM or engine load. If you set the number too high the light will not come on when knock occurs at low engine speed and load.

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hi all,

 

have installed innovate LC2 kit and also digital knock interface. i cant seem to get any meaningful #'s out of wideband input and also not yet seen anything from the knock box. ill troubleshoot the knock box another day but the wideband is wierd. i can see wideband input, but the AFR's are either 7.2 or 22.3 nothing in the middle. ive double checked the setup and im sure its set correctly and also brand new innovate kit professionally installed by a known evo workshop.

 

innovate LC2 set as "Innovate LC1" in "wideband" input under DI1 on evo 9 plug in Vipec V44 topboard running on Evo 8 engine. DI1 on evo 9 is Mivec (variable CAM) but on Evo 8 it's not used. so DI1 is set to wideband, innovate LC1 and ive checked the calibration values in the help file and these match my innovate documentation, ie AFR and voltage range is identical, i.e same sensor between Innovate LC1 and LC2 models. attached is PCL an log files where you can see wideband is either 7.2 or 22.3.... even though car is at idle, i'd still expect half normal AFR's ie sub 14's or maybe even 13's to richen up a little???

 

also in logs knock system status is 8 .... ? help doesnt reflect what code 8 is....

 

not for both of these, ive enabled the inputs but left CLL and KNOCK control turned off. just want both working in logs first before i "tune" stuff

 

see tune and log file;

 

http://www.paulr33.com/evo/vipec.zip

 

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Hi,

I've had a look through your base-map and did not spot anything that would be stopping the wideband working. If you set AN Volt 4 to 'Voltage 0-5V' and then look at the voltage in the runtime values window, does the voltage change around as expected from the wideband amplifier? If you have the voltage to AFR chart from Innovate you should be able to see if the voltage is ok.

Yeah, you are right, '8' is not real useful knock status information. Best bet it to look at the 'Knk Sys Status' in the knock tab of the runtime value window.

Scott.

 

 

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No unfortunately not on the on board logging this was some what limited in the V series the only logged parameters are as follows

The following parameters are able to be logged in ECU logging mode:

 

   AN Volt 1 to 11

Inj timing

   Anti-Lag Cyclic Idle

Knock Count Global

   Anti-Lag Ign Cut

Knock Level Global

   AN Temp 1 to 4

Knock Threshold

   BAP

Launch Limit

   Batt Voltage

MAP

   CL Stepper Limit

MAP Limit

   Digital Frequency 1 to 6

Mass per Cyl (x100)

   Dwell Time

Max Ignition

   E-Throttle Limit

MGP

   ECT

Overrun Fuel Cut

   ECU Temperature

RPM Limit

   Engine Speed

Speed (DI 1 to 6)

   Fault Codes

Speed Limit

   Gear

TP (Main)

   GP RPM Limit 1 and 2

Trig 1 Err Counter

   IAT

Under Voltage

   Ign Angle

Voltage Limit

   Inj Actual PW

Wake-Up Status

   Inj Duty Cycle (Sec)

VVT Cam Position

 

ECU Logging Parameters from ECU firmware version 4.9.9 onwards    

 

The following parameters are able to be logged in ECU logging mode:

 

   AFR Target

Inj timing

   AL Active Fuel Table (Status)

Knock Count Global

   Altitude

Knock Level Global

   AN Volt 1 to 11

Knock Threshold

   Anti-Lag Cyclic Idle (Status)

Launch Limit (Status)

   Anti-Lag Ign Cut (Status)

MAP

   AN Temp 3 and 4

MAP Limit (Status)

   BAP

Max Ignition (Status)

   Batt Voltage

MGP

   Boost Target

Overrun Fuel Cut (Status)

   CL Stepper Limit (Status)

Percentage FCut

   Cruise Switch Mode (Status)

Percentage ICut

   Differential Fuel Pressure

RPM Limit (Status)

   Digital Input 1 to 12 (Status)

Speed (DI 1 to 6)

   Dwell Time

Speed Limit (Status)

   E-Throttle Limit (Status)

Timer 1

   ECT

Timer 2

   ECU Temperature

TP (Main)

   Engine Speed

Trig 1 Err Counter

   Fault Codes

Under Voltage (Status)

   Gear

Voltage Limit (Status)

   GP RPM Limit 1 and 2 (Status)

VVT Cam Position

   IAT

Wake-Up Status (Status)

   Ign Angle

WGate DC

   Inj Actual PW

Wideband 1

   Inj Duty Cycle

 

   Inj Duty Cycle (Sec)

 

 

 

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Hi All,

 

Thanks for all of the help so far. Now, Trying to confirm my knock box is wired in properly and using the test mode on it. In the maunal, is the "LED" referring to the external "LED" box that you can use, or the built in "System LED" on the knock box? On my knock box (LINK G4 one) the status LED is blue and only ever blue. if i Press the status button the light goes out (I assume power off?) and then if I press it in, it goes blue and stays blue. It never flashes even when i put it into "test' mode F / F on both dials.

 

In the vipec logs I can see "KNOCK ACTIVE" but nothing else happens. I have both dials set to F and there's no numbers or inputs, just "SYSTEM ACTIVE" in vipec "RUN TIME view"

Should i be expecting to see some of the number change when either in test F/F mode in the logs on the vipec or even the #'s of DI1 changing between blue light on and blue light off (i.e power / no power)

 

Trying to confirm its wired in properly and confirm vipec can see the knock box before doing any "knock tuning"

 

Log file and tune file

v44 topboard evo 9 PNP on evo 8 non mivec / non VVT model with digital knock box (green LINK g4) one connected to DI1 (DI1 on EVo 9 is Variable Cam, unused on Evo 8)

 

http://www.paulr33.com/evo/knock1.zip

 

Thanks

Edited by paulr33

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Hi Paul,

The LED it refers to in the test instructions is an external one, not the one on the power button. According to what I read about the test instructions the external LED should flash with the windowing sent out by the ECUs Aux channel. It doesn't say this in the test, but I imagine the ECUs knock windowing must be setup for this to work.

The way I would normally test the setup is to activate the knock control system, put in some rough numbers to get it going and then press the F12 key to look at the knock tab of the runtime values window. I could then check the knock status and see the current level of noise coming from the engine. The knock sensor will display a level of noise even with no detonation happening, so this should show in the 'Knk Level' for each cylinder.

 

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Thanks but how do I get knock numbers from the box to the vipec? Does the F F dial settings actually send "fake" knock data so that I can check the vipec is recieving the "knock data"?

Or do I set the settings to like maximum amplification and run the engine at idle to see if I can generate fake knock myself?

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Do you have the knockblock configured as per figure 1 on page 6 of the manual? I'm not concerned if you don't have the LED, headphones, knock 2 or analog out connected.

Once you have it wired up set the gain position switch as per the instructions in section 3.1 (page 12). You can measure the analog output with a voltmeter, you want to see 1 to 2 volts. Use one of the positions without 'noise cancellation' as this only applies to the analog output of the knockblock and your ECU is going to be using the signal received on its digital input channel.

Next use the calculation technique as described in section 3.2.1 (pages 14-15) to select your filter switch position. The information I have says that from the EVO 6 onwards a dual harmonic sensors was used and the frequency filter should be set to 13 kHz. Have a go with the calculation and see if your results agree,

Make sure your digital input and aux output channel are allocated correctly.

Set your knock settings to be something like this to start with:

 

 

cyl.PNG

Knock.PNG

Your Knock Target table will probably be set to zero in all the cells. This means that if any noise is read on a cylinder pair the ECU will retard the ignition timing. If you look at the Knock tab of the runtime values window you should see this happening. If you then raise the value in the knock target table to be above the current engine noise level you will see the ECU re-introduce the timing.

The 'Knk Ign Trim CylX' tables are there for information purposes, you look here to see at which engine load and engine speed point the ECU has removed timing. Normally you would not edit these tables yourself.

Edited by Scott

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Have working closed loop feedback (stoich) mode and it's working really well. My sensor wasn't calibrated properly before so that's why I had screwy voltages for the AFRs. All working well now and it's very responsive.

One thing I can't work out is why I have 12.1 AFR idle. It seems the wideband closed loop won't bend it back to 14.7. The Ftrim limit is on 8%. Looking at the Maps and ghost trace I can't see any reason why it's so rich at idle. Should I adjust the Ftrim? Manual says 15% as a suggestion but mine is set to 8% (was default)

 

 

 

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Hi paulr33,

Disable Closed loop and see what AFR the engine idles at with it off,

If you had to calibrate the sensor there maybe a chance that the idle mixture was tuned rich and maybe outside your 8% trim to correct it.

Regards

Dave.

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I adjusted the map lockout value 120 and set the trim max to 15%. I can see the vipec trying to bend the AFRs at idle but only gets to around low13s which is good enough. I even checked the target table and it should aim for 14.7. All good either way. Thanks for your help

Edited by paulr33

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hi sorry for 8000 questions. looking at logs, trying to view some data where the vipec is using and actively doing closed loop, in the logs i can see three meaningful columns;

 

Lambda  Fuel  Corr.    

Lambda Status 1    

An V4 - WideBand

 

i can see fuel corr. looks like a % number or some sort of floating # and it appears to be how much fuel the vipec is trimming, which is great to see.

but what is the significance of lambda status, in the logs i can see it being numbers of 5, 6,7 14. for numbers around 7 and 14 thats when it looks like its running in closed loop. what do the status numbers mean? i tried to find it in the documentation but couldnt see anything sorry.

 

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Hi Paul.

'An V4 - Wideband' and 'Wideband 1' will probably read the same, but I would recommend using 'Wideband 1'.

On the V44 software the statuses of 'Lambda Status 1' show as numbers in the log file. This has been changed on the new G4+/iSeries platform. If you look at the runtime values window you will see the actual status instead of the numbers. However I realise this is not always ideal. Here is what the numbers mean:

0 = OFF

1 = Lockout: RPM<500

2 = Lockout: ECT

3 = Lockout: Startup Timer

4 = Sensor = Target

5 = Incr Fuel

6 = Decr Fuel

7 = Accel Active

8 = Lockout: RPM Low

9 = Lockout: RPM High

10 = Lockout: MAP

11 = Max Clamp

12 = Min Clamp

13 = No Signal

14 = Lockout: Fuel Cut

15 = Re-Activation Timeout

16 = Target Reached

17 = Lockout: %TP

18 = Lockout: %TP Delta

19 = Lockout: MAP Delta

20 = Lockout: Anti-Lag

 

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Hi all,

 

Turned the boost up recently to 24psi, all OK but up a hill in 3rd gear, full load and bang some sort of misfire / detonation so i backed off instantly. thought i had blown the motor but everything was OK and car drove fine after it etc. it looks like ive hit some sort of fuel cut but my data logs (10hz samples), the values for MAP are close the limit, but dont hit the limit. the vipec software, as i was actively logging when it happened displayed "map limit activated" after the event, so it sounds like map limit.

the map limit table is 300kpa all the way through (28.8 psi) and in my logs i can see a few logs of 288 kpa (27psi) at the most, so just shy of the map limit

is it simply approaching the map limit, and there' some sort of pre-emptive cut or its simply my logging samples arent quick enough to catch it
i would have expected to find some sort of "map limit reached" flag in the logs, but cant see any?

 

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