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Gary Hamilton

Electronic secondary throttles?

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My current setup uses primary and secondary throttles/runners.

At the moment they are connected mechanically to operate at the same time.

I would like to change this to operate the primaries only via the throttle cable and have the secondaries operated by an actuator, controlled by the Link G4.

Questions, 

1. Is this possible?

2. What actuator would I use?

3. Could I program it to open progressively, or just on/off?

Thanks for any help, this will make this setup work the way it was designed.

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Hi

Do you have two sets of throttle butterflies primary and secondary or is it more runner length control.

If runner length then no problem to control this with the ECU and a simple solenoid can be used.

If its a second set of butterflies then you will need a progressive opening. This would require a PWM controlled out put and again some sort of solenoid.

The ECU can do a PWM no problem

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G'day Scott,

No it is a second set of butterflies. I was at first thinking of progressive opening (pwm), however I will only need the second throttles on 100% throttle. This got me thinking how bad an on/off opening of the secondaries would be.

I plan on doing a dyno run at 100% primary only and a run at 100% primary and secondary open. This should show me where it is best to open the secondaries.

In any case, do you know what type of motor/servo/actuator would work for this application?

Thanks,

Gary

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Hi Gary,

Let us know how you get on at the dyno with the different butterfly settings. 

Working out the solenoid setup to open the secondary butterfly is going to take some experimenting. You will likely need to setup a lever arrangement as most solenoids will not have the 'throw' that you will require.

A solenoid like this one (see below) could be good. It only draws 0.5 amps, which means it can be directly driven from the ECU. If you decided to control it with PWM it should be suitable also.

http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=SS0902&keywords=solenoid&form=KEYWORD 

An alternative could be something like a central locking motor, they have a bigger 'throw' and can probably pull more load. I'm not sure what their current draw would be though, so you may have to use a relay to drive it. And I do not think they would work very well with PWM control.

Cheers,

Scott

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How about a stepper motor like this one?

http://www.phidgets.com/products.php?category=23&product_id=3317_0

It is 12v, has an 8mm shaft (can connect directly to butterfly shaft), has enough rpm for quick enough actuation and has high torque to oppose the return springs.

Questions,

1. Can this draw too high a current for the Link directly?

2. If so, how do I wire it with a relay?

3. Will the Link make this close when it loses power? So in the event of a broken wire or electrical signal loss, it will fail safe?

Thanks,

Gary

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Hi Gary,

You will not be able to use a stepper motor. This is because the only control for a stepper motor on the G4 ECUs is for idle speed control. Also a stepper motor requires 4 or 6 Aux outputs (the one you linked to above looks like 4).

If you look under PCLink > Help > Wiring Information > Output Wiring > Idle Speed Control > Four Terminal ISC Stepper Motor  You will find information on stepper motor wiring and see why it will not work.

Scott

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Good morning Gary,

To be honest I do not know if the servo motor would work. I have not heard of anybody using one before. The Aux outputs on the G4 ECUs can be setup for a General Purpose PWM output, where you can specify a frequency and then choose the conditions that the output switches on.

This may work to give you an open/close type setup. The only way to know for sure would be to try it.

Cheers,

Scott.

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Fair enough, I'll just try it and see!

One thing I need to make sure off is the closing speed of the servo. As in, it will need to close as fast as a throttle can snap shut.

Can the pwm open at one speed and close at another?

If not, it will have to open and close at the same rate.

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so we can set this up on a GP PWM table (mapping RPM vs. TPS) and just need to find something to control the thottle, that when controlled by the signal it will open it relative to the duty cycle, ie:  0%DC= closed and 100%DC= fully open, ideas?

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