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G3 with carbies - ignition only help wanted

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Hello, new to link and about to start install with a fresh loom G3 on a Peugeot 504 slant hemi head 2Litre with R1 bike carbs, - was mechanically injected but have binned that ongoing problem for the carbs, so chasing ignition only.  

bought the unused G3 and loom of a guy planning a nissan Silvia install- so guessing it has sr20/ca18 features, any known similar base files i should download to suit this engine set up, i suppose if ignition only file shouldnt differ much.

This new intake manifold set up has made me remove my 123distributor and bosch gt coil all together and go for a 36-1 Crank trigger wheel (which i have not yet attached to crank yet) to get my spark-hense the install of the G3 - yes could of gone megasquirt or something but there crappy and if i wanna go EFI in a few years ill be sorted.

this engine is a senor-less engine (except for a TPS on the carbs- which i should not need for just ignition) so will need to buy all new sensors/ignitors (1 x trigger pick up, 1 x wide/narrowband - for tuning carbs initially, 1x ignitor or ignition items)

i need help in telling me what to buy to get up and running, all will need be bought online due to my work load and do not want to waste anytime or order anything that im second guessing -i do that alot, thats why im posting haha.

there is a pretty large wreckers close by with 1990 onwards jap/ford/holden cars in the mix so could help if anybody knows if i can rob some parts.

any help appreciated.

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Good morning,

I assume as you have removed your distributor that you will be going for 4 ignition coils in a direct spark setup? If so, then you can either use ignition coils with built in ignitors, like these:

http://www.nzefi.com/product/high-energy-single-inductive-ignition-coil-with-ignitor/

or you can go with an external 4 channel ignitor and 4 ignition coils like these:

http://www.nzefi.com/product/high-energy-inductive-ignition-coil/

For your ignition table you are still going to need an engine load parameter, either TPS or MAP. As you are running multiple carbs getting a stable MAP signal may be a problem, so I would recommend using your TPS for the ignition table load axis. Make sure the TPS puts out a varying voltage with varying position, and not just on/off.

For your crankshaft position sensor I would recommend a reluctor sensor as they are available aftermarket and known to work well. If you go for a second hand sensor you could go hall or reluctor type.

I would recommend a wideband O2 sensor over a narrowband. The narrow band only tells you rich or lean around stoichiometic ratio. A wideband will tell you how rich or lean you are and is useful if you want your AFR different to 14.7:1 (and you do). The Innovate line of wideband sensors work well.

Scott

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thanks Scott

yep have completely removed the dizzy, and have been given 4 x LS1 gen 3 coils (haven't seen them yet but told they have ignitors built in..... .

The TPS is a 3 wire varying voltage type as is same as originally on the R1, so I will hook that up,

I do plan on fabbing up a intake plenum but thinking I can only run IAT sensor on it.

I have got a 3 wire crank bosch Sensor of a Hyundai Lantra which ill make a small bracket to match the wheel - hopefully this should work together.

thanks for the reassurance, bit worrying when I was standing there with a spew of wires coming out of my firewall 

hopefully get some pics up soon

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slow progress, but getting there.

because im running direct spark with the LS1 coils, is it wishfull thinking that just a crank trigger wheel will be enough, to run off - the manual i discovered "4 cyl direct must use both crank and cam triggers"? have i shot my self in the foot? and should i be looking at wasted spark, - because fabbing up a cam sensor is gonna be tough work on this old engine.

also just on wiring of the grounds of the LS1 coils there are options of grounds, a signal ground and a engine ground, been surfing a bit and found people are running both to engine point, joining and running one to engine point, some to chassis, one chassis and one to engine, or using equivilent sensor ground (dark green wire on the G3) to the ecu and one to engine- will this sensor ground cause the ECU to pick up a fault if there is an issue with the coils?

 

any help deserves a beer

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Hi you will be able to retain the LS coils but will have to fire them wasted if you only have a crank trigger.

It is fine to drive two coils off one ignition drive of the ECU.

So you will need to have the 1st and 3rd cylinder to fire of drive 1 and the 2nd and 4th to fire off drive 2.

For the grounds of the coils you can run both to the engine block.

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Ok, bugger thought so, well life is not getting any harder at the mo so just going to make a custom sensor,  I will get one cnc if I need to, on the attached pic i guess I can  make the outside sprocket  in to a sensor trigger wheel as this was use to drive the mechanical pump and is no longer needed, is there a recommended type I should aim to make that will work well with the 36-1 crank setup or is a 1 toothed cog suitable -  sensor will just go through the  front housing

 

sorry for all the questions, your help is beyond imagined and I envy your knowledge.

 

alex

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Not quite getting the question. Are you just looking for a new crank sensor ?

 

What's the reference to a 1 tooth cog ?

 

The ecu would not be able to detect a fault with the coils on the "misfire" wire the OEM ecu uses. Just ground it along with the main power ground for the coils.

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That would be an option do modify that to act as a single tooth.

If you could make it a big tooth that is 180deg in length you could use a hall sensor and use cam level sync option.

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i have made an old distributor into a 180deg cam tooth using Honeywell 1gt101 sensor and will set "sync levels" to Yes x1 CAM

however I cannot seem to change my tooth count in trigger set up from 12 which it is stuck on, to 36, I have it set to 'multi tooth/missing' could this be because of the file I first down loaded? I have started with the MX5 1800 file as it was closest to my engine with the correct firing order and changing to suit, but I am stuck with the trigger set up

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Should be no reason you can not change the tooth count, Make sure you hit the Enter key after typing in the number.

Yes you can power both sensors of the one wire.

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hello, my last username died some how

I have opted to go full EFI and using denso HI injectors out of a 95 ford telsta

at the stage of cranking now and just trying to sort a few things, .

 

1. im unsure of trigger offset, crank trigger wheel is 36-1 I have it set to 180 (yes enter key works a dream) at the moment as I have the missing tooth opposite the sensor which is @ tooth 18 approx and TDC is on tooth 9 approx going in a clockwise rotation from the missing tooth, how far can it be out to not register?

I also have a converted points dizzy to a 180deg tooth cam. ( do I need to somehow sync this with the crank before hand or can I remove it and wire up the 4 coils to run wasted spark only using the crank trigger?)

 both sensors are Honeywell 1gto1 hall sensors and both register "yes" when cranking

I can perform spark tests and injector test and both seem normal. however when cranking I don't seem to get any spark at all. (I pulled #1 plug and not getting anything

not sure what ive overlooked?

 

 

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The Crank sensor I would advise not using the GT101 as it is not a good sensor to use on high tooth counts as it will have issues at higher frequencies.

It works ok for low tooth count applications.

However the sync can be any place and you should get spark with any offset figure it will just not be at the correct time.

Check to see if you have a trig 1 yes and a trig 2 yes when cranking and if you get a rpm reading the is around 200-250rpm.

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ahhh shit already spent 150 on those sensors, which sensors do you suggest?

both triggers read yes when cranking but the RPM does not move from zero

when timing gun is on #1 lead there is no light flash, or on any of them but on the #1 and other spark test there is light flash.

its a pretty old engine (OHV) so will not be revving over 5500rpm, and its an automatic, so just trying to build a reliable cruiser.

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