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KD

3S-GE REDTOP BEAMS Wire-In

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Good Morning One n All !!!

 

Seeking some wiring info for the 3SGE REDTOP BEAMS to Link G4+ Fury Unit....any help will be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks!

Edited by KD

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Hi KD, I'm running a redtop engine with g4+ Xtreme.

Are you wanting information regarding the physical wiring setup, or what values to put in tables etc?

I can probably give you a good head start with what I've found to be the best values for VVTI timing etc.

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Okay so here's what I've found that might be useful.

Firstly I've tried lots of different intakes, and non so far make more power than the factory filter box and piping/resonators. So keep it!

Second of all the factory IAT sensor that's in the MAF is ATROCIOUS. So dont bother using it for your IAT because it's super slow. Get one of the BOSCH open element types. The difference in reaction time is insane.

I used the MAF sensor to datalog intake cam angles to see what gives the highest mass of air into the engine at full throttle:

cwpvy1sl.rce.jpg

And I'm currently running to an 8200rpm limit but realistically there's not likely much point in going above 8000 on a standard motor. Definitely benefits to going over the factory 7400 limit though.


 

 

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Hey thanks DK and DV.

I am greatful for the kind spirited persons that you all are and i really appreciate all the info that was posted here.

 

I've been busy the past couple of weeks doing a 3SGE 3RD GEN Swap for a friend of mine, my hands are a little free this week and i am excited in installing my ECU Fury that is. I recently installed the redtop beams in my car a few weeks ago and wired it myself. I took it to the dyno shop just to get a base run to see how much power am getting at the wheels, the numbers were 162whp on the crappy pump gas 90 octane. In my humble opinion for a stock motor with only a CAI, its not all that bad.

Driving the car it really feels good with the stock ecu, but redlining at 7k is a bit dull :( and the throttle response could be much sharper. Now that i have the fury i want to push the RPM LIMIT TO 8000K :D to keep the powerband in check.

I got one of the LINK Air Intake Temperature Sensor with my purchase, I am not a fan of the MAF sensor so i will be replacing it to a MAP Sensor Instead.

 

DV what is your motor throttle response like with the extreme compared to the stock ecu and how much ponies are you getting at the wheels after tuning?

Also did you try the individual throttle body system?

Edited by KD

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Your CAI will be losing you power with the standard ECU, because it upsets the MAF Sensor. This is what will be making your throttle response feel sluggish currently, because throttle response is awesome even on the standard ECU. About ~170hp at the wheels is normal for an engine that's running well. I went from 150hp to 170hp at the wheels by going from an apexi pod filter back to a standard airbox, and the car ran MUCH better at low throttle.

Although that doesnt really matter now that you've got a link to run it, because you can tune it properly for whatever intake you use. And MAP sensor is a bit less fussy than the MAF.


20v throttles on a beams motor, or standard manifold?

The standard intake manifold has 45mm diameter runners. With bell mouths on the end. In a fancy plenum with a big throttle body.

Silvertop 20v throttles at the throttle plate are 43mm diameter.
Blacktop 20v throttles at the throttle plate are 45mm diameter.

buuuutttt a throttle body still has the throttle shaft blocking some cross sectional area when it's open, so it's effective area is more like this:

itdbss5b.qus.jpg

So:

(Altezza manifold) 45mm dia no throttle: 1590mm square of cross sectional area

(Blacktop 4age)    45mm dia 4mm thick throttle shaft: 1410mm square of cross sectional area (88% area of standard runner)

(silvertop 4age)    43mm dia 4mm thick throttle shaft: 1280mm square of cross sectional area (80% area of standard runner)

You'd need a 47-48mm throttle body (if it had a 4mm shaft) to get a similar cross sectional area to a standard 45mm standard runner.

The 45mm 20V throttles also taper out wider at the entrance, and then at the exit taper out to an oval shape to suit the 3 valve port. Which is a poor shape for a 2 valve port.

Most beams motors that I've seen which use 20V throttles havent made much more power over a standard engine, I would assume for reasons above.

I am currently putting the engine/gearbox back into my car and have been doing a big rewire. I havent had my car on the dyno yet, and I've been very conservative on ignition settings.

With the factory ECU, an exhaust manifold restriction and a 7400rpm rev limit I did a 14.3 at the drags.

So might be a bit qucker when I get the ignition timing dialled in a bit better... Launch control will help a lot as my car has terrible traction off the line.

The weather starts getting nicer here in the next few months so hopefully I'll have a few more runs down the drag strip and see how it goes.

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I still retain the OEM console housing for the MAF, in conjunction with the cold air pipe with a K&N Filter. I heard the motor ping a few times during my dyno pull cause by the quality gas available in my country. I will try standard short ram system on my next trip to the dyno, i plan to do a pull with the MS-109 fuel on the stock ecu to see what numbers the motor will yield.

There is a upcoming drag meet soon here, so i am prepping my car to get a time on the motor...by the way 14.3 is impressive for a just a drop in and drive setup.

I have been checking around for performance cams and pistons for future upgrades but having a warm time, any help with link to websites will be greatly appreciated.

What octane fuel did you pull the 170hp with?

 

Edited by KD

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That was 98 RON / 90 MON.

If you want to fit aftermarket pistons etc, then Altezza 3SGE stuff fits most of the time. So TODA, TRD, etc all make parts that can fit. rhdjapan.com has a lot of parts on it.

The Altezza intake cam has an extra cap holding it to the head, so it's longer. But I think if you machine that end off you can fit Altezza aftermarket cams into the redtop motor. But you need to be mindful that Altezzas have larger buckets so the super aggressive Altezza cams may cause problems.

In my opinion though it's a great package as is, you need to spend a lot of money to take it to the next step up. My car does 3500rpm at 100kph but still gets ~7l per 100km which I wouldnt be able to acheive with bigger cams etc.
It's a very usable car at the ~200hp mark but you start making a lot more compromises if you fit big cams that cant use VVTI and so on.

They respond awesomely to forced induction though!

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Oh cool! 170whp is very solid on just pump gas with just a stock motor.

Thanks for the info David, will have a look into the captioned site and browse around.

I was doing some research and i found that Cat Cams is a distributor for the Redtop, my aim really is to attain 200+whp from my motor. I'm hoping that with the Fury+MS109+ROCKSOLIDTUNE i will achieve the mark.

Its been a while i have really driven the car since i did the swap, took it for a long distance drive man the car really feels awesome. On the way i had some fun with this dude that has a Si K20 Honda and a Prelude with H22 Fully Built (That's what he said). along the journey i out ran the k20 by good distance enough that when the prelude driver and i stop to chat the Si was just coming along to lyme with us. I was beaten very badly by the H22, i got like 3-4 cars on the straightaway but in the corners i had a little chance. So while we stopped to chat both drivers commend my car and the motor especially the Si Driver and i did the same, i had to shake the prelude guy hand and tell him that his car is pulling super hard. In my honest opinion i think something was wrong with the K20 at the time even though the driver did not admit that. Honestly though that PRELUDE inspire me to get my car that his performance level.

I have a test n tuned day coming this sunday, looking forward to pulling a good time with the stock setup before i start to play with the motor.

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Good night everyone.

I am now in the process of hooking my G4+ Fury to my Redtop Beams Manual ECU, i decided that i would build a jumper harness to reduce the installation setup of wiring the car all over and to make it ease of access if i want to remove my standalone and revert the car to the state of origin. 

I need some help in regards to my OEM ECU PINOUT to suit the G4+ FURY Pinout of Loom A & B. Below is a list of my OEM ECU Pin and its functions. 

 

      Socket A                                        Socket B                                   Socket C                                                 Socket D

1. #10                                                   1. EVG                                    5. TC                                                         1. BATT

2. #20                                                   2. VC                                      6. STP                                                       3. FC 

3. #30                                                   3. HT                                     13. ACT                                                      6. W

4. #40                                                   4. PRG                                   22. SPD                                                     7. PSW

10. Ign 1                                               8. STA                                    25. AC                                                      11. SIL 

11. Ign 2                                               9. ION 1                                  27. TACO                                                  16. +B 

12. Ign 3                                             10. ION 2                                                                                                   19. ELS 

13. Ign 4                                             11. VG

21. EO1                                              12. OX1

23. OCV -                                            14. THW

24. OCV +                                           15. G2+

27. Knock                                            16. NE+

28. CF                                                 17. E1

31. EO2                                               18. E2

                                                           19. ION 3

                                                           20. ION 4

                                                           22. THA

                                                           23. VTA 

                                                           24. NE-

 

 

I need to know what Pin Function of the G4+ Fury should i use for each item listed above, your assistance will be greatly appreciated. 

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Hi KD

I think I will be able to do the bulk of this however it will take a fair wack of time.

As need to translate the Toyota codes to what we would use.

Ill see if I get a chance to hit this next week.

 

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Here's a list of what all of the pins mean. Realistically I think what you need to do is print out the pinout for the link, and also the pinout sheet for beams and then decide how you're going to switch the wires over. It's pretty hard to help with this part remotely because there are lots of ways to acheive the same thing.

A1 #10 Injector #1 Blue
A2 #20 Injector #2 Black-White
A3 #30 Injector #3 Black-Orange
A4 #40 Injector #4 Black-Yellow
A5
A6 (SL)
A7 (S 1)
A8 (S 2)
A9
A10 IGT 1 Ignitor #1 Blue
A11 IGT 2 Ignitor #2 Red-Blue
A12 IGT 3 Ignitor #3 Blue-White
A13 IGT 4 Ignitor #4 White-Red
A14
A15
A16
A17
A18 RSD Idle Speed Control Black-White
A19
A20
A21 EO1 Earth (Engine) Brown
A22
A23 OCV- VVTi White
A24 OCV+ VVTi Red
A25
A26
A27 KNK Knock Detector Clear
A28 CF Cooling Fan Green/Blue
A29
A30
A31 EO2 Earth (Engine) Brown
B1 EVG Air Flow Sensor Earth Yellow-Red
B2 VC 5V + Red
B3 HT Oxygen Sensor Heater Yellow-Green
B4 PRG Evap Purge Valve Pink-Blue
B5
B6
B7
B8 STA Starter Black
B9 ION 1 Ignitor #1 Signal Return Red-Blue (Silver Spot)
B10 ION 2 Ignitor #2 Signal Return Red-Yellow
B11 VG Airflow Meter Blue-Black
B12 OX 1 Oxygen Sensor Beige
B13
B14 THW Engine Water Temperature Green
B15 G2+ Black-White
B16 NE+ Black-White
B17 E1 ISV Earth Brown
B18 E2 TPS Earth Brown
B19 ION 3 Ignitor #3 Signal Return Green-Black
B20 ION 4 Ignitor #4 Signal Return Light Green-Blue
B21
B22 THA Intake Air Temp Yellow-Black
B23 VTA Throttle Position Signal Black-White
B24 NE- Blue
C1
C2 ( R ) Reverse Grey
C3
C4 Blue-Black (Silver Spot)
C5 TC Check Connector (12v)
C6 STP Stop light switch
C7 Orange
C8
C9
C10 (OD 2)
C11 (PWR) patern select switch2
C12 (L)
C13 ACT Air Conditioning
C14
C15
C16 Green-Yellow
C17
C18
C19
C20 (NSW) Neutral Start Switch Black-White ?
C21 (MNU)
C22 SPD Speed Signal Violet ?
C23 Green-White
C24 TC White-Blue
C25
C26
C27
C28
D1 BATT Battery + Pink
D2
D3 FC Circuit Opening Relay Green-Red
D4
D5
D6 W Warning Red-Blue
D7 PSW Power Steering Pressure Switch Green-Yellow
D8
D9
D10
D11 SIL Check Connector (Signal) Yellow
D12
D13
D14
D15
D16 IG+/+B Igniton(12v) Black-Red
D17
D18
D19 ELS Rear Window Demister Orange
D20
D21
D22

 

 

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Thanks for the response guys.

I wanted to upload a photo of the Link Fury Header Pinout but was unable to. Basically what i'm doing is making a jumper harness using a oem redtop beams ecu socket to suite my oem wire harness plugs. All i need now is to know what pin from the Fury Header Pinout goes where? 

Here's a copy of the pinout for the Fury G4+

 

 

Fury.thumb.jpg.d26d578b0147ed865a206f8bc

Redtop Beams ECU Pinout

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by KD

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Disclaimer: I dont work for Link or speak on their behalf / this is just one mans opinion

For sake of troubleshooting any potential issues that may arise, I think it's reasonably important that you understand where each wire is going and why. 

Why dont you make a start on the obvious ones... Obviously the "injector1" on redtop pinout goes to "injector 1" on the fury. 

Then ask questions when you get stuck. If someone tells you "this goes here, this goes here" but you dont understand why/how, then you're going to be completely and utterly stuck when it comes to figuring out what's wrong.

Read through the help files in the Link documentation, get an understanding of:

-Triggers (crank and cam)

-Analog inputs

-temperature inputs

-Digital inputs

-injector outputs

-ignition outputs

-5v supply / 12v supply 

Then you'll have the confidence to wire everything up with a solid understanding of what you're doing, and you'll be capable of testing and troubleshooting any issues that may arise. Not only that, but once you're done you'll be able to look at the "left over" functionality of your ECU, and decide if you also want to wire in the extra bits for things like launch control, or a shift light, or wheel speed sensors, or whatever.

I can send you a modified basemap of the Altezza file that will suit getting a redtop motor running, and some suggested settings.
However I think it sounds like getting some hands on assistance with the wiring part is probably a good idea.

Edited by Davidv

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Thanks once more.

I did some search through the help file of the Link G4+ Fury and found some interesting stuff to aid me getting the Installer I/O Table started. There are a few things i am not quite understanding at this point, letters in red indicate areas that i am not clear on.

Below is a pic of what was done:

page_1.thumb.jpg.a88f69a043a0b63f75195e2

Page_2.thumb.jpg.cd74e5b787e13e17db4ac18

 

 

 

Edited by KD

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You can ignore ION 1-4 these arent required (it's a return signal from the coilpacks to factory ECU, not required for Link)

OCV+ and OCV- are the wires for the VVTI solenoid.

So you need 12v supplied to OCV+ and then wire OCV- to aux 1. Check with the trigger scope that polarity is correct when engine is cranking

The factory ECU needs a supply of voltage to hold its memory when its switched off, which is what the BATT pin is. Link doesnt need this.

G2+ will be Trigger 2

You dont need to worry about the EVG pin if you arent using MAF anymore.

SIL is the check engine light, so you can wire that to an aux output if you wanted.

TC pin isnt required it just goes to the diagnostic port.

ELS - ignore it

 

Edited by Davidv

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ahh okay I remember now.

G2+ and NE+ are the crank and cam triggers, so go to trigger 1 (crank) and trigger 2 (cam) (both wires are black with white stripe from memory)

The earth wires for both cam and crank triggers are paired together before reaching ECU, this earth wire is NE- (should be a blue wire) which needs to go to sensor ground.

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