Paddle shift

[mapper]

Hi 

I checked how I can setup paddle shift with the gear shift control. It's looks like all conditions are there, when a shift may occure. But what I'm missing is a output that can be configured to switch when the gear shift control release the shift. The digitial input are used fo the paddles > shift control checks may I shift (rpm not to high, shift request long enough etc.) ?  > if shift controll allows shift, it must be possible to set an AUX port to activate the gear shift hardware (shift-cylinder), depending on shift control. 

I haven't found a possibility to set an AUX depending on shift status.  Can you please add this in next firmware. Thats the only reason why paddle shift isn't possible at the moment.  

[Dave Kriedeman]

Hi Mapper,

paddle shift is possible.

Myself and a friend worked it out for his drag car awhile ago, but is for air shift solenoid control shifts.

Regards

Dave.

[mapper]

Hi Dave can you please elaborate this? 

I suppose it's much easier for drag than circuit racing.  It can be done in a very basic way with GP Aux switch fuction. 

Shift control is much more advanced way, since it looks at things like min input activation time, reactivation time out etc. To prevent double downshift on bumpy roads. 

So what we need is an Aux switch depending on shift control status. 

[mapper]

What also would be necessary for proper paddle shift

- shift actuator control base on shift control status, which makes decisions base on conditions below. 

- Neutral and reverse gear will be locked out if on speed

- automatic reshift if shift was missed

- diagnostic function for paddle control 

- pressure control for hydraulic or pneumatic pump 

 

Also nice

- different shift modes, manual, automatic, fault mode etc. 

- clutch control with pressure input, temperatur or position. 

 

Just realised that I started a thread with similary content earlier. Sorry for that, but have also a look in this thread.

http://forums.linkecu.com/index.php?/topic/4356-throttle-blip-closed-loop-gear-cut-etc/ 

[Dave Kriedeman]

Hi Adrian,

many, many feature requests come through very often.

These requests get put into a prioritised list also future development of the ECU's and abilities by LINK themselves are also factored into these requests, so  sometimes requests can take time to be added.

I will send you information on Paddle shift setup, this took 3 days to configure so you can understand that it is like giving you the answers.

It is because myself and the other dealer worked on this it is not 100% my decision or work that permits me to share this information.

I will however do this for you as you knowing this will not impact us directly.

A lot of control functions and ideas I get , involve many many hours of work with an ecu the latest software/firmware and my simulator.

There are things that these ECU's are capable of doing that are not at first obvious.

I start with the idea and then look at how to go about it and then test with my simulator.

Sometimes I get stuck and call on the help of the LINK TECH support, Simon or the Head Engineer Ashley.

Sometimes I have to admit defeat and realise what I wish to do wont work

You will receive an email from me over the next few days regarding the paddle shift setup.

I have more doctors appointments , scans and tests to go through over the next couple of days.

Regards

Dave.

[mapper]

Hi Dave 

I know, i asked for a lot. But think it could be helpful for Link Engineers to have many  ideas and feeback to improve theire products.

I spend also many hour to figgure out how I can implement some nice fuctions. Alone with timers, GP inputs and Virtual Aux are alot possible. That's the reason why I already asked some time ago, if they can add some more Virtual Aux, or maybe more conditions. A switch that will change his position everytime it is acutated would also be great. As an example, I implemented a hiden boost switch. If you push the A/C switch at the same time TPS >80%, it switches Map. Problem is, it needs 3 Virtual Aux and two timer to get a logic that Input changes Map every time the condition are meet.

It would be very kind, if you could send me your map. You can find me in your FB ;-)  Doesn't sound well, hope you get healty soon.

 Regards

Adrian

Edited December 2, 2015 by mapper

[Dave Kriedeman]

Hi,

I will endeavour to find it, dig through all of my PCL files, just have to remember which version of firmware we created it with.

I am in no way opposing any of your suggestions, I encourage it, I just wanted to let you know how the process works, sometimes rather than waiting it is good to try and make a way for this function to work.

Requesting a function is great, but if you have done any work on the suggested function etc this can be forwarded on also, making the setup time for the engineers a lot quicker and understand exactly what you wish to have happen.

Regards

Dave,

 

[mapper]

Are there any updates regarding paddle shift or is it something that is unlikely to come? 

[Scott]

No news on this at the moment. 

Scott

[Anthony Parle]

Hi Adrian,

I have spent about 5 minutes trying to think through this problem, be we maybe able to go in reverse, so instead of the LINK doing the brains work use a small PLC to fill the gape and have it tell the LINK what to do.

For my current sequential control unit I installed a small box with a PLC and it took input from the Strain gauge and the gearbox rotary position indicator.  So its capable of ignoring Rev, Neutral and going up to 1'st.  It works by killing the spark at the moment and getting feed back as to when its in the next gear.  Pretty sure once we nutted out what the PLC would do and what the Link would do then we could replace the PLC with a small PIC.  In the end it would just be a case if you wanted a Paddle Shift option with a Link then you buy the extra board.  Just thinking for a second, if you are going to call the gear change then you don't need a strain gauge as its assumed when the change is done by the air cylinder.

Here is a photo of the PLC in the box.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Anthony Parle

[gisqc]

I spent a good couple of hours on the subject trying to see how I could set up a pneumatic shift system and found 2 options. One that I'm not sure can work depending on the GP PWM function. It also requires a cheat signal to combine a clutch switch to an analog gear detection. The other seems OK but uses (wastes) ALOT of ressources (Inputs, Outputs, Timers).

Here are the objectives I had in mind when working on the logic : Minimum activation time, Up and down shift conditions (When to allow and when not to), Use of a clutch switch for Neutral Reverse and low speed/RPM operation, Closed loop sequence (using part of the existing gear shift sequence), Time out if shift never happens, Double shift (Up or Down) protection, Unable to use both paddle at the same time (first one to be activated wins). I think they are all covered in the logic.

Option 1 :

Variables :

Di2 : Up shift request (paddle)

Di3 : Down shift request (paddle)

Di4 : End of up shift sensor (Reed switch on the cylinder in this application maybe?)

Di5 : End of up shift sensor (Reed switch on the cylinder in this application maybe?)

An11 : Cheat signal of analog gear detection (leave one intact signal to another input) and a clutch switch. (Make it add .25V to normal signal when clutch is used to be able to have two voltage for every gear, one without and one with clutch? Something like this)

Aux5 : Up shift condition table (Use PWM table)

Aux6 : Up shift solenoid activation

Aux7 : Down shift condition table (Use PWM table)

Aux8 : Down shift solenoid activation

VirtAux1 : Up shift request validation

VirtAux2 : Down shift request validation

VirtAux3 : Double shift protection

Inj7 : End of up shift condition

Inj8 : End of down shift condition

Timer1 : Up shift minimum activation time 

Timer2: Down shift minimum activation time

Timer3 : End of shift timeout condition

Timer4 : Double shift protection timer

Logic :

VirtAux1 : If Di2 = ON, Di3 = Off, Timer3 > 0.500s (Start shift validation only if one paddle is active and we are not already in a shift sequence and double shift timer is past the set wait time)

Timer1 : VirtAux1 (Start validation timer)

Aux5: 0,020s (or min activation time) < Timer1 <= 0,070s (or any interval long enough to get the sequence started). Set the PWM table with An11 on X and RPM on Y axis. Fill out the table with 0 and 100. Every gear/rpm point where you want to block a shift from happening goes to 0. The cheat signal from An11 let's you break the X axis with enough voltage to have each gear twice, one with and one without clutch activated. This let us set shift conditions according to the clutch also. Only point I am unsure here (and didn't find answer in the help) is if the software interpolates between the cells at 100 or 0, or if they round up the voltage input and goes to the closest column instead. If it interpolates the duty cycle this gives some problems as to break the input signal correctly and still maintain 0's in the unwanted conditions.

Aux6 : Aux5 = ON Or ( Aux6 = ON And Inj7 = OFF)

VirtAux3 : Aux6 = ON OR Aux8 = ON

Timer3 : VirtAux3 = ON

Inj7 : Timer3 > 0.5sec (Or desired shift timeout) OR Di4 = ON (Cylinder reached end of stroke, shift is completed)

At this point the solenoid should be activated following all conditions we checked and should stay on until the shift is completed. Now I'd set up the shift sequence from a load cell sensor on the air cylinder to reach full closed loop sequence regardless of the pneumatic reaction time.

Down shift sequence is essentially the same, add a TPS under x% condition on the PWM output condition (for table).

Option 2 is similar but instead of using a cheated signal for the PWM table, I would keep the table Gear by RPM and add a Aux Output for Up AND Down shift (eating two more outputs) with a condition like : RPM > 4000 or Clutch switch (upshift) or (RPM > 2500 Or Clutch Switch) AND TPS < 30% (Down shift), and add these output status into the PWM output conditions. This way when filling the PWM table any critical spot (neutral reverse low rpm conditions) even if you do not have clutch feedback you know it is active and therefore can allow to shift in those conditions.

I prefer option 2 to set conditions of shift, but it takes way to many output to be practical unless we have more Virtual Aux ouputs available someday.

A quick conclusion is we are somewhat limited to what we can do, more VirtAux output or/and more conditions per output would make a good difference, in the process I spent most of my time restarting to try and save more output or work around the fact Inj and Ign outputs only have 2 conditions and that the Virtual Aux doesn't have the SwoffTimer option.

Here are questions regarding the setup :

-Any general inputs on the logic?

-General Purpose PWM outputs : If I have a RPM breakout at 0 (0%) and 1000 (100%) what would happen if rpm is at 750. Will it round up and pick the 1000rpm column at 100% or interpolate and use 75% duty cycle? This is critical to making the first option PWM table work.

-If we had access to a end of shift status from the gear shift logic, that it gets on when it is completed for a scan (or maybe a small timed delay?) then we could easily get rid of the Inj7 and Inj8 output and the Timer3 along with both end of stroke sensor DI4 and DI5. Hopefully this would not be to hard to add in the near future while we wait for a complete paddle shift logic which would be alot simplier if all programmed in the shift module?

-It would be nice to have the swofftime option on the Virtual output just like the regular outputs to.

-It would also be nice to be able to start a Timer off an Ignition or Injection output status. In this logic I had to "waste" a 3 condition output while only needing 2, only because I needed that output to start a Timer.

-Am I right to think when using Neutral and Reverse gear in a table Axis I need to use the number in () next to the description from the gear detection module being 10 for reverse and 11 for neutral?

Gislain

Edited August 27, 2016 by gisqc

[Scott]

Hi Gislain,

Thanks for taking the time to think this out and then to write an explanation for us.

Any general inputs on the logic?

I'm not sure I understand, are you asking for feedback on your proposed system from people?

 General Purpose PWM outputs : If I have a RPM breakout at 0 (0%) and 1000 (100%) what would happen if rpm is at 750. Will it round up and pick the 1000rpm column at 100% or interpolate and use 75% duty cycle? This is critical to making the first option PWM table work.

The table will interpolate so 750 RPM will give 75% duty cycle.

-If we had access to a end of shift status from the gear shift logic, that it gets on when it is completed for a scan (or maybe a small timed delay?) then we could easily get rid of the Inj7 and Inj8 output and the Timer3 along with both end of stroke sensor DI4 and DI5. Hopefully this would not be to hard to add in the near future while we wait for a complete paddle shift logic which would be alot simplier if all programmed in the shift module?

I think this would make the system a lot easier to implement. I will ask the engineers to consider adding this.

-It would be nice to have the swofftime option on the Virtual output just like the regular outputs to.

I will also ask the engineers to consider adding this.

-It would also be nice to be able to start a Timer off an Ignition or Injection output status. In this logic I had to "waste" a 3 condition output while only needing 2, only because I needed that output to start a Timer.

I will also ask the engineers to consider adding this.

Am I right to think when using Neutral and Reverse gear in a table Axis I need to use the number in () next to the description from the gear detection module being 10 for reverse and 11 for neutral?

Yes you are correct.

 

Scott.

[mapper]

Hi Scott i like to bring a old topic up. 

Think it would be not much work on your side to add the gear shift status as an aux option.

This will make paddle shift much much easier than the suggestions in this tread.