Rb26 trigger setup

[Steve]

No problem. Hope you get it sorted and up and running

[turbodailydan]

Hi steve

 

i had another go, got the zero synced up with the ecu. Engine runs but doesn't rev very clean. Checked timing map was 20deg at idle, checked the pulley marks with light and wasn't on 20deg, more like 10deg. So adjusted offset until it showed 20deg and Rev is now clean, took her for a test drive just up the road obviously off boost, and there's some flat spots so obviously not right still.. Not to sure what else to do 

[Steve]

Did you do the timing delay adjustment?

Ie adjust it so that timing doesnt drift when you rev it.

[turbodailydan]

Right sorted! Was that delay like you say. Watched the timing as I was revving and it was retarding so increased until stable. Spot on. Thanks for the assist Steve 

[Steve]

Exelent! Love when things work out...

Report back with results ;-)

[turbodailydan]

Believe me so do I!  Haha

just waiting on the new turbo to come from the states. Precision 6262 cea t4 twin scroll, switching from a Borg Warner s362 fmw. will report back with updates once on the dyno

Dyno graph from the s362. This is on a stock motor with Tomei type b cams @ 1.5bar. The turbine wheel is quite abit larger than the 6262 so I'm hoping to gain a lot more mid range and quicker spool from this turbo. Both turbos have a 62mm compressor so should be interesting. Will be using the same dyno dynamics as last time so can overlay the graphs to get a direct comparison 

 

http://s21.postimg.org/5uz53ywlz/image.jpg

[turbodailydan]

Haha so it's drives well apart from having what sounds like spark cut at 6k ish on full load in any gear. Was thinking perhaps it's due to the cam angle sensor position. I rotated it anti clockwise so it wasn't at tdc when the crank like you suggested however having done a little search on Google I found a couple of pics off others running this kit and they are centred, and I know from that position the cam trigger and sensor are aligned at tdc,  So wondering whether it's down to that?

 

 

Can see this guys is slightly off as his exhaust cam gear is retarded but you can see it's at tdc 

 

Edited April 3, 2016 by turbodailydan

[Steve]

Highly doubt it. Remember it only tells the crank to start counting. As long as its not set so that it starts counting on the wrong thooth due to scatter, cam trigger have nothing to do with it.

Any big jumps in your timing map at that point?

You should make some logs and see if anything stands out

[turbodailydan]

The car was mapped on the factory cas setup, and has only done this since i installed this kit so whatever it is has to be to do with the conversion.

the timing is spot on, set ecu to 10 and pulley is 10. Set it to 20 and pulley is 20 and so on. that's why all I can think is that it's the cam sensor, or somehow there's interference between the trigger 1 and trigger 2 wires where they splice into the factory harness. But I would've thought it would happen all the time and not just at 6k rpm at full load 

[Steve]

Do a pc log where you log everything.  your mechanical timing is most likely different up top now that you have stable timing. Might have something to do with it. Could be a limiter kicking in. A log should reveal alot. Post one along with your pcl and lets have a look..

Personaly ill hit the bed now and wont be back until tomorrow night after work, but someone else might have a look in the meantime.

[turbodailydan]

Yeah same here mate, no worrys il have a play one evening this week after work and report back -  Cheers 

[turbodailydan]

log here

 

http://www.filedropper.com/log23-11-1585445pm

map file

 

http://www.filedropper.com/triggermap62degoffsetandreftiming0cascentred

[Steve]

Well you do have trigger errors climbing at that point. Make sure your cam triggers between two cranktheeth. Dont mind TDC or BDC or anything like that. Thats not relevant. Just make sure it triggers between two crank theeth.

You can also try to set "trig 2 edge" to rising instead of falling and see if it helps

Your coil dwell times also seems low to me. Check that they are set correctly for your coils. (Google maybe)

 

[turbodailydan]

I set the cam sensor so it was half way between the 11th -12th (tdc) tooth and I've also tried it with the cam sensor centred on tdc. So you think try between another couple of teeth ok il give that a go after I try trig 2 edge to rising.

the dwell settings are untouched and are what the vipec Gtr map was supplied with. 

[Steve]

No point trying two different theeth. If you are sure its between theeth thats good enough for me.

If changing to rising doesnt do anything then maybe you need to look at wiring again. Maybe drag new wires inside the car directly from the sensors to the ECU. Shielded wires!

[turbodailydan]

Yeah I had the cam centred when the crank was at 15deg btdc so half way between the last 2 teeth. 

Il try changing the cam trigger to rising then and see what that does. If not I guess all I can look at is the wiring getting interference 

Ross gave me this response (by the way what is the difference between rising and falling edge? I take it Ross means rising when they say leading?)

 

Cam timing is fixed when our trigger is bolted to the front of the cam shaft and can be fine tunned with the adjustment in the sensor mount. This trigger will read in front of the TDC of the crank trigger to register for sinking, when looking at the damper you will see a series of laser etched lines and numbers on the inner face of the trigger wheel (between the water pump pulley and trigger). These marks are to be used as a guide only and the TDC needs to be set manually and then compensated in your ECU in regards to trigger position and actual TDC (each type of ECU may be different).

In regards to leading edge and trailing edge it is entirely up to you and your tuner how you wish to setup but most people we have spoken with use leading edge.

Hope this answers your questions

Edited April 5, 2016 by turbodailydan

[Steve]

Yes leading is rising. Difference is rising is when the thooth "hit" the sensor, and fallinf is when the thooth is "leaving" the sensor.

 

EDIT: I also see that the parameters "trigger signal" on both triggers turns from "yes" to "no" there for a little while. If this is because of the trigger errors its counting or for some other reason i dont know

SCOTT! where are you?

Edited April 5, 2016 by Steve

[turbodailydan]

Just looking at the log, can see rpm gets to 5548rpm and then goes 5042rpm, at the same time losing signal for trigger 1 and 2, then rpm goes to 6530rpm and signal for trigger 1 and 2 is there 

I just looked at another log and the rpm does the same thing, gets to 5387rpm then goes 4162rpm then 6275rpm but the signal for trig 1 and 2 are present that time.

so I'm wondering wether the log where the signal was lost is down to the trig 1 error count ? Perhaps a fail safe or something I don't know 

Edited April 5, 2016 by turbodailydan

[turbodailydan]

Update, found the crank sensor retaining bolt was coming loose probably from engine vibration so going to refit with loctite and hope for the best! It was quite lose though and the issue started progressively getting worse no doubt where the sensor was moving away from the trigger wheel. 

[Scott]

 

SCOTT! where are you?

I'm here, you're doing a great job thanks!

[Steve]

That should explain alot mate..

I was thinking about sensor-thooth distance, but figured the ross kit isnt adjustable (?) so scraped that idea.

 

Thanks Scott, glad you are with us :-)

[turbodailydan]

Just to update problem solved 

regarding edge type should I use rising on crank and cam? Currently both set to falling. 

 

 

[Steve]

Glad to hear. Now to the dyno! :-)

Set both to falling.

[turbodailydan]

Will do thanks Steve 

[Steve]

Does it in your mind feel any different now that you got it running with the new triggers?

Where are you located? UK? We seem to be awake at roughly the same hours.