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Nettlez

BMW M50 Wont Start

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Hi,

I have recently been building a BMW E30 M50 non vanos turbo. Finally I have got everything finished and I have got oil pressure then came to try starting the car but it just will not start. I have been through the ecu first time setup and start up several times looking for something I have done wrong but cant seem to find anything. The ECU was a wire in job as there isn't a plugin option for the non vanos, the ecu is a link g4+ extreme and this engine is usually in a bmw e36 early model. The engine is stroked to a 2.8 from a 2.5 but its still essentially a 2.5 non vanos. All I am after doing is getting the engine running so I can check for leaks and top fluids up before it goes to be mapped properly at the end of August. Would be very grateful if someone could have a look at the file to see if anything it a miss, thanks

IMG_3087.jpg

Latest.pclr

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Hi.

 

Have you tested the injectors and coils that they work as they should with the PClink software?

You have wired in ignitors for the coils? as these does not have built in igniters.

Fuel pressure okay?.

 

Had a quick look on your file and that seemed okay. I know the trigger angle 84 degrees as you have is okay for wasted spark, but Im not 100% sure if it is 84 or 276 that is correct for full sequential.  Have you tried both?  (s54 use 276).

 

Eivind

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Hi.

 

Have you tested the injectors and coils that they work as they should with the PClink software?

You have wired in ignitors for the coils? as these does not have built in igniters.

Fuel pressure okay?.

 

Had a quick look on your file and that seemed okay. I know the trigger angle 84 degrees as you have is okay for wasted spark, but Im not 100% sure if it is 84 or 276 that is correct for full sequential.  Have you tried both?  (s54 use 276).

 

Eivind

Thanks for the reply Eivind. I have tested the injectors and coils as per the pre start up checks by manually enabling the outputs and listening for an audible click and they all matched up to the correct output and make the click noise. By ignitors im not 100% sure what you mean but the car uses pensile type coils and are all brand new and are like the item below:

http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/BMW_3+Series_2.5_1992/p/car-parts/ignition/car-electrics-and-car-lighting/ignition-coils/?413110091&1&5546189b17a0fffb4399fa57a5c7c264b3498f9e&000197

I haven't tried a different trigger angle as I looked at the tooth count and the maths said it was right as well as the other info I found on the internet so didn't want to risk damaging the engine, would it be safe to try the 276 trigger angle? Ande the fuel pressure is ok, adjustable fuel pressure regulator set to 3.5 bar and gauge currently still on and reading ok

Have you tried adding/retracting 360 degrees to your timing offset? Could be firing 360 degrees off.

No I haven't tried that, seems to be a common thought that it might be out. Im guessing there is no other way of checking other than using a timing light? or is it safe to just try it and see if it fires?

Edited by Nettlez

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have you tried using the e36 base map?

yes I tried using that base map but editing it to suit the non vanos as it has a different crank sensor and timing offset as well as my injectors and what not but to no joy unfortunately

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Hi.

 

Have you tested the injectors and coils that they work as they should with the PClink software?

You have wired in ignitors for the coils? as these does not have built in igniters.

Fuel pressure okay?.

 

Had a quick look on your file and that seemed okay. I know the trigger angle 84 degrees as you have is okay for wasted spark, but Im not 100% sure if it is 84 or 276 that is correct for full sequential.  Have you tried both?  (s54 use 276).

 

Eivind

also just found this, there's a picture and small write up towards the bottom saying the non vanos wheel is used on the m20 m50 and s54 but the picture shows the angle as 84 still? yet the trigger angle in the link ecu help for an s54 is listed as 276?

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It is safe to try with 276 degrees also. -84 or 276 is the correct angle for both m50 and m20.  

 

With igniter I mean an ignition module between the coil and ecu.  The m50 coils can NOT be wired directley to the ecu. 

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It is safe to try with 276 degrees also. -84 or 276 is the correct angle for both m50 and m20.  

 

With igniter I mean an ignition module between the coil and ecu.  The m50 coils can NOT be wired directley to the ecu. 

ok I will give it a try with 276 degrees. These are the actual coils I brought. Do these bot have a built in ignition module? There was nothing else wired in between them and the Ecu before? 

 

http://www.autodoc.co.uk/ngk/7007510

 

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ok I will give it a try with 276 degrees. These are the actual coils I brought. Do these bot have a built in ignition module? There was nothing else wired in between them and the Ecu before? 

 

http://www.autodoc.co.uk/ngk/7007510

 

The stock ecu has built in ignition modules.  You must install an ignition module between the Link ecu and the coils.

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The stock ecu has built in ignition modules.  You must install an ignition module between the Link ecu and the coils.

ah right, any recommendations on what igniters I could use? How do they have to be wired? 

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integrale8v is correct, igniters will be required, as the ignition coils you linked to above only appear to have two pins, so do not have built in igniters.

Also, in the Triggerscope image you attached in your first post the polarity of Trigger 2 looks to be backwards, you can correct this by swapping the wires to the reluctor sensor. Same with Trigger 1.

Best to buy or borrow a timing light and set/confirm your base timing. You want to be sure this is correct, otherwise the ECU can be applying more or less ignition timing than you've entered in the ignition table.

Scott.

Edited by Scott

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Thanks for the help guys. I have ordered some of the Bosch 3 channel amps and some plugs. And as for the trigger two yeh I swapped the wires because it wasn't starting just to try it, will swap it back. Fingers crossed it for these and it will come alive. 

Do these Amps need a lot of cooling? It says they need to be on a heat sink so will do that but didn't know if they would be ok in a box under the dash seeing as they were originally in the Ecu? 

 

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Do these Amps need a lot of cooling? It says they need to be on a heat sink so will do that but didn't know if they would be ok in a box under the dash seeing as they were originally in the Ecu? 

 

How much cooling they need will depend on how much current your coils pull and how often or long the engine spends at high load.  Most electronics will give a significantly shorter life expectancy above say 85C so you want to take some steps to minimise this.  The general rule is they need to be mounted to an aluminium plate of reasonable thickness and surface area and you really want them in reasonably open air so that convection can do its job.  You should also use heat transfer paste on the mating faces (the modules normally come with a small packet).  Certainly under the dash is ok but I wouldn't be sealing them in a box.

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How much cooling they need will depend on how much current your coils pull and how often or long the engine spends at high load.  Most electronics will give a significantly shorter life expectancy above say 85C so you want to take some steps to minimise this.  The general rule is they need to be mounted to an aluminium plate of reasonable thickness and surface area and you really want them in reasonably open air so that convection can do its job.  You should also use heat transfer paste on the mating faces (the modules normally come with a small packet).  Certainly under the dash is ok but I wouldn't be sealing them in a box.

Brilliant, thanks for the reply, fingers crossed it all comes this week and it gets up and running

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