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wildwestaussie1

G4+ subaru wrx V7-10 plugin is a dud

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so when you get down to it all you get from link is some vague BS about BMW and Subaru "getting it wrong" as far as link see's it with gapped tooth wheels LOL.

there is clearly a known issue with these reluctor type sensors and the G4+ but apparently link finds it amusing to watch you try and get a car to start for days when link knew all along that it will never run with the stock reluctor discs without a few mods,and thats not what plugins are supposed to do.

have tried every possible setting,which just results in random psudo RPM spikes,chronic timing scatter and bulk trigger 1 sensor errors,while i appreciate it is possible to get a link G4+ to run a V7-9 wrx it will not run an unmodified sensor disc set up and thats not how it's supposed to be with a plugin.

link has tried to lock me out of this forum by not letting me sign in,hence this post under this name.

i think link has engaged in deceptive sales conduct by selling a product with a known issue that they don't tell you about.

also unhappy about not being able to upload my screen shots of the scope tracers which link obviously doesn't want people to see about the sync error the g4+ sees in the trace.

tried all the BS in the forum changing polarity of first cam and then crank reluctor sensors,to no avail,makes no visable difference to the trigger 2 scopre trace at all LOL

at this stage i will be telling owner of vehicle to return ecu for full refund unless he wants to pay extra unnessasary time and parts on what was supposed to be a plugin "pug and play" and that description in no way describes this product

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my G4+ v7-10 plugin works perfectly on stock reluctor triggers and unmodified trigger wheels, have had it in my daily driver how since the G4+ range was released, replacing the previous vipec v7-9 plugin which also worked perfectly. I've even managed to make the old vipec wrx plugin work on a 1zzfe corolla which uses a 36-2 reluctor trigger on the crank.  In my experience across a wide range of motors, Link ECU's work exceptionally well with reluctor triggers.

My trigger settings are almost identical to the set listed in the help file, just with a trigger offset of -2

avcs.JPG

Edited by JMP

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yeah well it's funny then link has a section in trigger wheels where they say reluctors are a problem in some oem applications and there seems to be a few people around the world with the same install issues i have.

i find you a bit suss JMP,no pics or anything to identify you,so i think your one of links forum flunkys talking rubbish from behind your keyboard,

the only thing i agree on was that the ViPec plugin was awesome and worked well but the G4+ is a cheapo that cannot handle the reluctor issiues with BMW and subaru,and thats in the instruction manual,what has pissed me off is that link does'nt come out and say that you need to modify the trigger pick up reluctoe wheels,if they had i would have done so and not just plugged it in and try to start the car.

this car ran on the stock ecu,nothing was changed and now the G4+ just gives bulk trigger 1 error,timing scatter and psudeau rpm splies with exxtra spurious injections which wet the plugs with fuel.

i could have accepted i fucked up the install somehow except for the fact it ran on the stock computer and it doe'snt run with the link

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What jumper settings are you using on the board?

I don't work for Link, but do like helping fellow forum users that have issues with their installs.  I've been using these ECU's since late 2008 so have a bit of experience.

Build thread for my forester is here: http://ozfoz.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2621&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&sid=c0226dc16c346db58d9ec99b8eafd3a8&start=100

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What jumper settings are you using on the board?

I don't work for Link, but do like helping fellow forum users that have issues with their installs.  I've been using these ECU's since late 2008 so have a bit of experience.

Build thread for my forester is here: http://ozfoz.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2621&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&sid=c0226dc16c346db58d9ec99b8eafd3a8&start=100

tried as per supplied,does'nt power up when changed to sti settings

as i said car ran with stock computer

my G4+ v7-10 plugin works perfectly on stock reluctor triggers and unmodified trigger wheels, have had it in my daily driver how since the G4+ range was released, replacing the previous vipec v7-9 plugin which also worked perfectly. I've even managed to make the old vipec wrx plugin work on a 1zzfe corolla which uses a 36-2 reluctor trigger on the crank.  In my experience across a wide range of motors, Link ECU's work exceptionally well with reluctor triggers.

My trigger settings are almost identical to the set listed in the help file, just with a trigger offset of -2

avcs.JPG

if you try and run trigger arming thresholds below 1.6 volts it doe'nt give a clean waveform on the scope

and if links work "exceptionally well" with reluctor triggers then why is it in the help section as a problem and why are people accross the world having the same issue with this ecu?

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has worked well for me personally on the vvti 1jzgte, vvti 2jzgte, non vvti 2jzgte, non vvti 1jzgte, 1zzfe, 2zzge, 4age, my old built EJ257 with V6 heads/cams/triggers, the new 257 with v7 triggers and kelford 264's, etc etc.  The majority of my cars have been Toyota's and they're all using reluctor triggers so that's my experience :)

In the other thread, it looked to be a specific issue with the camshaft sync is in the the missing tooth gap, is that the case with your engine?

Spamming every Subaru thread on here hoping for an answer is probably the least efficient way to get it sorted, you'll notice that 90% of people don't post the resolution as they identify the simple mistake causing the problem and never return.  Would be nice is more did post their resolutions.

Have you got an external scope you can put on the triggers at the ECU end when it's running on the stock ECU?  that should give you a clear idea if the shielding/ground is breaking down in the loom allowing excessive noise on the triggers, which I've found to be a common issue on old Subaru looms.  The stock ECU can deal with the noise surprisingly well.

Edited by JMP

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Hi Mr F... You. 

I understand it can get frustrating when you have spent a lot of money and things don't go as smooth as expected.  I'm surprised you have had trouble with Link's support however, I have always found them to be quick to reply and thorough in there help.  Anyway if you are willing to persevere for a little longer I'm sure we will be able to get it right and you will be happy when it is all working good.

If you are frustrated with whoever you have been dealing with and want some independent help I would be happy to offer whatever I can remotely - I'm not a dealer or in any way tied to Link but do have quite a bit of experience with them and most other brands.  I don't have a lot of experience with Subaru's in particular but am sure I could still help.

I have never seen any problems with the triggering system in the G4+ platform, it seems robust and reliable.  Especially with yours being an OEM setup and PNP ecu it should be fairly straight forward with no mods required to anything.

I suggest the first step is to post a screen shot of your trigger scope.

also unhappy about not being able to upload my screen shots of the scope tracers which link obviously doesn't want people to see about the sync error the g4+ sees in the trace.

This is normal for forums to not allow images to be uploaded, this because images chew up server space quickly.  You need to upload your image to a host and put a link in your post.  Tutorial here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDO-qnEgeLw

As well as the trigger scope could post a PC log of the car idling and also a copy of your map.  Tutorial on how to do the PC log is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P1LRANeO4A

Edited by Adamw
spelling

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I use image shack to load images. Didn't think it was that hard to do. Would of been quicker then posting in multiple threads.

With out a log or screenshot you come across as a wanker. 

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Hi all,

Andrew (Wild West Aussie) has sent through some trigger scope images of the engine he is working on, here is one:

WildWestAussie_Trig_Scope.thumb.jpg.4bed

 

There are a couple of problems, the first is that the polarity of the reluctor sensor for Trig 2 is incorrect. The second issue is that the Subaru V7-10 Trigger mode expects two teeth on Trig 2, where the trigger scope appears to show 7.

For reference here is the V7-10 trigger mode:

V7-9.thumb.PNG.6cf75c077b550e42e437c8e42

and here is the V1-6 trigger mode:

V1-6.thumb.PNG.670266bece44e6b23feea0f6a

You can see how the TriggerScope image looks like it is using the crank pattern of the V7-9 mode, and the cam pattern of the V1-6 mode.

Scott

 

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yeah interesting that the 2002 wrx and 1998 sti motors that someone else swapped have the same early model cam wheels when they are both supposed to be later model ones LOL,don't know how either of them ran with stock computer/Apexi power FC,the 1998 sti motor was ex a written off japanese race car so that might explain a few bits that would'nt normally be there

I use image shack to load images. Didn't think it was that hard to do. Would of been quicker then posting in multiple threads.

With out a log or screenshot you come across as a wanker. 

the only wanker here is you

I use image shack to load images. Didn't think it was that hard to do. Would of been quicker then posting in multiple threads.

With out a log or screenshot you come across as a wanker. 

you are the only wanker here

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Hi Mr F... You. 

I understand it can get frustrating when you have spent a lot of money and things don't go as smooth as expected.  I'm surprised you have had trouble with Link's support however, I have always found them to be quick to reply and thorough in there help.  Anyway if you are willing to persevere for a little longer I'm sure we will be able to get it right and you will be happy when it is all working good.

If you are frustrated with whoever you have been dealing with and want some independent help I would be happy to offer whatever I can remotely - I'm not a dealer or in any way tied to Link but do have quite a bit of experience with them and most other brands.  I don't have a lot of experience with Subaru's in particular but am sure I could still help.

I have never seen any problems with the triggering system in the G4+ platform, it seems robust and reliable.  Especially with yours being an OEM setup and PNP ecu it should be fairly straight forward with no mods required to anything.

I suggest the first step is to post a screen shot of your trigger scope.

This is normal for forums to not allow images to be uploaded, this because images chew up server space quickly.  You need to upload your image to a host and put a link in your post.  Tutorial here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDO-qnEgeLw

As well as the trigger scope could post a PC log of the car idling and also a copy of your map.  Tutorial on how to do the PC log is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P1LRANeO4A

you act like i created this problem rather than getting involved once the engine was in the car and a non-starter

yes that was a screen shot before wires wwere swapped over on cam sensor

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I've fitted these on Subarus and never had any trigger issues.

There is a chance you have a spurious wiring issue or something else odd going on. Subarus do seem to have some odd issues now and again!

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Built in trigger scope is an excellent tool troubleshooting trigger problems:)

Have also seen cars with modified OEM triggers because other brand standalone ecus couldnt handle the stock signals, and customers had to modify their triggers. Link ecus actually support the most of the common triggers out there very well.

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Sorry wildwestaussi you just shooting against LINK for nothing! I use alot of plugins and run succesfull alot of different Subaru combinations (GC8 heads on Ej257, V9 blovk with V7 heads etc.) with which never would been possible with a OEM Ecu. I never ever had a problem with the trigger system, you just have to settup things right. 

If there are really some odd trigger system on your engine you maybe have to change them. A Plugin of any manufacturer are based on a universal standalone ECU, which can't work on any possible engine or trigger system you can think of. Link makes fantastic ECU which cover a great range of engine types and trigger systems. 

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while the vehicle is now up and running with the crank ans cam sensor polarity as the remaining issue.

i maintain anything that needs wiring mods is not a plugin.

seriously you even have to set the firing order and shit which is not how plug and play is supposed to operate.

funny to hear from so many armchair and desktop tuners on this forum.

yes the scope feature is very useful in diagnostics but if it was'nt so fussy as to trigger signals you would'nt need it.

the only plus side is the car now runs quite smoothly for a so far untuned car,the basemaps and tables are actually pretty close.

certainly was'nt fast first run out with only 8 psi boost but it was smooth with no peaks or dips in power.

idle controls also work well but really the amount of time venturing into and enabling all the tables such as ect is a bit nuts

I've fitted these on Subarus and never had any trigger issues.

There is a chance you have a spurious wiring issue or something else odd going on. Subarus do seem to have some odd issues now and again!

no kidding

Sorry wildwestaussi you just shooting against LINK for nothing! I use alot of plugins and run succesfull alot of different Subaru combinations (GC8 heads on Ej257, V9 blovk with V7 heads etc.) with which never would been possible with a OEM Ecu. I never ever had a problem with the trigger system, you just have to settup things right. 

If there are really some odd trigger system on your engine you maybe have to change them. A Plugin of any manufacturer are based on a universal standalone ECU, which can't work on any possible engine or trigger system you can think of. Link makes fantastic ECU which cover a great range of engine types and trigger systems. 

i think thats the problem,it's set up is so broad it's a pain to set up,if it was a truly dedicated model specific plugin i would not have had issues

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Built in trigger scope is an excellent tool troubleshooting trigger problems:)

Have also seen cars with modified OEM triggers because other brand standalone ecus couldnt handle the stock signals, and customers had to modify their triggers. Link ecus actually support the most of the common triggers out there very well.

if it was'nt so fussy as to reluctor trigger signals it would'nt need the very useful diagnostic scope

Scott's screenshot proves my theory. Quick to blame the product before doing basic checks. 

the engine was not put in the car by me,i had to make my own adapter plate out of alloy billet to run 2002 V9 throttle body on 1998 STI manifold,and made the throttle cable mount up to.

if i was just a button pushing pretend fairy tuner i could understand your veiw,but i'm an all rounded who qualfied as a diesel mechanic back in 2002 on an adult apprenticeship and a current project is an engine conversion on a volvo truck(it's getting an 8.3 cummins ex generator engine).

 

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Maybe you should might loosen you up abit

Fitting an engine from one vehicle to another doesnt make you a tuner nor does qualifying as a diesel mech in 2002. If your looking for help and advice your going the wrong way about getting it coming on and abusing those who are likely to give it. 

Courtesy goes along way and fortunatly attitudes dont. 

Good luck getting to the bottom of it i think you will need it

 

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Maybe you should might loosen you up abit

Fitting an engine from one vehicle to another doesnt make you a tuner nor does qualifying as a diesel mech in 2002. If your looking for help and advice your going the wrong way about getting it coming on and abusing those who are likely to give it. 

Courtesy goes along way and fortunatly attitudes dont. 

Good luck getting to the bottom of it i think you will need it

 

got to the bottom of it and got car running to factory smoothness level although not fast at 8 psi,you miss my point as to doing light and heavy engine conversions and i find diesel tuning just as much fun as cars.

not putting my whole resume up here,i prefer to build and work on nissan RB engines and only got involved in this to help out the 2 apprentice mechanics sort the engine swap.

and my luck is extreme,it's extremely good or extremely bad,lifes like that

the only upside of the whole thing is that once the trigger settings and sensor wiring worked out it ran really well on the supplied basemaps and tables with minimum tweaks to some trim settings etc

Edited by wildwestaussie1
typo

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so when you get down to it all you get from link is some vague BS about BMW and Subaru "getting it wrong" as far as link see's it with gapped tooth wheels LOL.

there is clearly a known issue with these reluctor type sensors and the G4+ but apparently link finds it amusing to watch you try and get a car to start for days when link knew all along that it will never run with the stock reluctor discs without a few mods,and thats not what plugins are supposed to do.

have tried every possible setting,which just results in random psudo RPM spikes,chronic timing scatter and bulk trigger 1 sensor errors,while i appreciate it is possible to get a link G4+ to run a V7-9 wrx it will not run an unmodified sensor disc set up and thats not how it's supposed to be with a plugin.

link has tried to lock me out of this forum by not letting me sign in,hence this post under this name.

i think link has engaged in deceptive sales conduct by selling a product with a known issue that they don't tell you about.

also unhappy about not being able to upload my screen shots of the scope tracers which link obviously doesn't want people to see about the sync error the g4+ sees in the trace.

tried all the BS in the forum changing polarity of first cam and then crank reluctor sensors,to no avail,makes no visable difference to the trigger 2 scopre trace at all LOL

at this stage i will be telling owner of vehicle to return ecu for full refund unless he wants to pay extra unnessasary time and parts on what was supposed to be a plugin "pug and play" and that description in no way describes this product

And the issue was, cam and crank sensor polarity. Go figure.

http://forums.linkecu.com/index.php?/topic/6301-subaru-ej20-reluctor-wheels/#comment-45251 

Having automotive mechanic as my back ground i know you don't need luck if you can read and understand the help file. Not understanding how to use or read the help files means the poor LINK tech's get dumb ass topics like these. 

 

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And the issue was, cam and crank sensor polarity. Go figure.

http://forums.linkecu.com/index.php?/topic/6301-subaru-ej20-reluctor-wheels/#comment-45251 

Having automotive mechanic as my back ground i know you don't need luck if you can read and understand the help file. Not understanding how to use or read the help files means the poor LINK tech's get dumb ass topics like these. 

 

if i had the option i would have used a power FC which i recommend for most applications,unfortunately apexi did'nt make an fc for the 2002-2005 wrx which really sux.if it had been up to me a to choose an ecu for this car i would'nt have chosen a link,the car owner and the mate that sold him the engine bought the link G4+ cos it was cheap.

yes link will get many "dumb questions" as you put it cos the G4+ is quite simply not a plug and play unit.

as i said on another post /thread the only upside was that once all the "trigger"/cam sensor/crank sensor issues were sorted the car ran and drove with factory smoothness.

i got plenty of other truck work on at the moment i did'nt need this shit,i told the people involved to get something plug and play cos i did'nt have 2 days + to set up a wire in ecu.

the link G4+ is a top unit but it certainly is not plug and play in any way shape or form and it took time to set up i simply did'nt have.

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if you had v7-9 trigger wheels on the engine it would have run fine...  not sure why you're still whinging that the v7-9 plugin doesn't work when it obviously does if you have things mechanically right in the first place.

Your own scope show it was running a mix-match of v1-6 cam wheels and a v7-9 crank wheel.  Even an old wire-in v88 wouldn't have worked with that setup when you select the v7-9 trigger mode which expects you to actually be running v7-9 triggers ;)

Edited by JMP

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i did'nt put the engine in the car how many times do i have to say that,i got called in when it was already in and a non starter.

wheels looked the same and as someone else pointed out the 98 STI motor should have already had the v7-10 cam wheel anyway,one of the many tricks subaru did to try and stop the interchange of STI engines and hardware into the lesser wrx's.

1998 into 2002 was never going to go easily.

with all the trigger selections you think the link could cope with extra timing pulses and even made better use than them than the stock unit.

still doe'nt cover the wiring and sensor polarity issues the were not related to the cam wheel that was on motor,these were just as hard to solve if not harder to solve than the camwheel issue and thats what to me clearly doe'snt make it plug and play which is what was needed in this situation and what it was advertised to be.

certainly a great unit when fully installed and set up and the basemaps and tables are extremely close to perfect,but not plug and play in any way shape or form.

really getting sick of your crap comments on my post.

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