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krohelm

4age 20v Wiring & Installation

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I have a 4age 20v Blacktop Toyota engine in a mk1 MR2.  The engine was installed with a harness from WireGap and plugs into the factory Blacktop ECU just like a factory loom.  Runs great.

Wife got me a brand new Monsoon for Christmas (I hinted it might be appreciated) and I'm now planning to do coil-on-plugs imminently, and maybe supercharge a couple (3-6) pounds in the future.  I'd like to get the ECU up and running sooner though.

  1. I need to make a translation pigtail from the "factory" Blacktop harness to the Link Monsoon.  Is there a convenient wiring diagram for this someone could share, along with any special notes for configuration (fixed timing advance for first startup, VVT recommendations etc.)?
  2. I need a knock sensor.  Do I need the Link knock light system, or is the knock sensor itself enough for this?  (I'm going to datalog every trip and do nerd science with the data)
  3. I need a wideband o2 sensor.  I think I need the Link/Bosch CAN lambda sensor (for the extra data), or can the Monsoon read the Bosch LSU4.9 sensor natively?

Additionally, any general guidance on a 4age 20v Blacktop would be appreciated.  I'm new to tuning, but have been (1) reading forums nonstop for months, (2) watching High Performance Academy instructionals, (3) reading Performance Fuel Injection Systems and (4) working on cars for 15 years.  I plan on carefully proceeding to attempt road/track tuning and supplementing my experience with Dyno time for that perfect edge, hopefully after I've achieved a passable tune manually.  If I suck at this I'll just go pay the dyno guy to do it for me, but I really want to learn it myself ;-).

I need to order a Link A pigtail and a 20v ECU socket to get the harness patched across.  This will be a project that unfolds over the coming months.  I look forward to learning Link!

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Edited by krohelm

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Hi, 

Sorry for the slow reply, we've been closed for our Christmas/New Year holiday, but are now back.

Here are some links to blacktop engine ECU wiring info:

http://www.sq-engineering.com/media/wysiwyg/pdf-info-files/4age-20V-BT-manual/bt8-fi-fuel-injection.pdf

http://club4ag.com/technical_main.htm

It would be nice to make an adaptor for the OEM ECU harness. You could either remove the connector from a factory ECU, or if one of our plug-in ECUs uses the same ECU connector we could supply one. Possibly our MR2 plug-in ECUs have the same connector, the pin count looks to be the same.

Most 4AGE engines have a 24 tooth wheel in the distributor, the sensor for this should be connected to Trigger 1. Some 4AGE engines also have a 1 tooth wheel in the distributor, the sensor for this should be connected to Trigger 2. If your engine has no 1 tooth wheel, but has a 4 tooth wheel you could chop three teeth off to make a 1 tooth wheel.

The Monsoon does not have knock control hardware, so whatever knock system you use will need to be external to the ECU. For tuning of ignition system as audible knock monitoring tool like the G4+ knockblock is recommended.

The Monsoon does not have an onboard wideband O2 controller, so will require an external controller. There are many options on the market, the nice thing about the Link CAN-Lambda is that it uses the LSU 4.9 sensor (no free air calibration required) and the data comes into the ECU over a CAN bus (avoiding ground offset issues).

If you're willing to invest the time and effort I'm sure you'll be able to install the Monsoon yourself and be able to achieve a good tune. Feel free to come back with any further questions as you go along.

Scott

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Thanks Scott, I hope your Christmas/New Year was as good as mine :-).

 

I could have sworn the Monsoon had the ability to take a knock sensor as input, that saddens me greatly:  I was planning to set timing conservatively, but my car may sit at times (aging fuel) and I'd like the safety net of an ECU action on knock.  Maybe I'll just have to drive more!

CAN-Lambda is ordered, when are you releasing the CAN-Knock (and can I be an early adopter)?

 

At 11:1 compression on U.S. pump premium, I'm sure to be detonation-limited rather than advance-limited.  How do you recommend setting timing for the Monsoon & Atom ecus?  With an ECU knock retard I'd advance to the first hint of knock, back off maybe 2 degrees and go boldly forth.  There's no silver bullet number for this, but what factors would you consider and how would you weight them in your decision for where to put your timing in relation to an observed "knock point"?  This is how I'm thinking, but there are probably more factors or different ways to think about them.  Edge_of_knock+5° seems pretty safe in my mind (per load/rpm cell), do you feel otherwise?

FactorAggressive AllowanceConservative Allowance
Pump Octane Variance+1°+3°
Fuel Age Variance+0°+1°
Fear Uncertainty and Doubt+0°+2°

 

Edited by krohelm

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Normally ignition timing is done by monitoring the torque output on a dyno. Initially advancing the ignition angle will cause the torque to increase, but eventually the torque will flatten off as the ignition angle is advanced further. If the ignition angle is advanced further then detonation is likely to occur.

I would recommend setting your ignition timing conservatively and then when you get your car to the dyno you can monitor the torque output and finish the ignition tuning off. In combination with knock audio detection gear this will protect the engine while maximising output. Finding out the ignition values that other people with similar engine builds are running would be useful.

We released the G4+ Knockblock in the past year, so I imagine CAN-Knock will be something for the distant future. 

http://dealers.linkecu.com/G4PlusKnockBlock

Scott

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That's a good plan.  I have a dyno lined up tentatively for March.  I should have the installation completed by then barring any really major surprises.

 

Let me know if you want to supply an MR2 connector, they do indeed appear physically compatible.  I might be able to find one at a local pick & pull but having a contingency is desirable! 

 

Thanks again for your time and replies.  I'm still open to input on things that have tripped people up.  Pouring through club4ag, they've got a lot of good information too.

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Inputs for this engine:

Digital Inputs

  1. Start Position +12v
  2. (can connect throttle closed whenever it's supported by Link as an input for idle control)

Analog Inputs

  1. 83420-20040 factory engine coolant temp sensor
    Which Sensor Type should I use here?
  2. Factory inlet air temperature sensor
    Which Sensor Type should I use here?
  3. Factory MAP sensor
    Should I even use this?  I'm basing my tune off of TPS and using the built-in MAP sensor as a BAP "Equation load source".
    If I do TPS tune, should I also use "No FP Correction"?
  4. Factory TPS sensor
    Pretty sure I'll need to just spend a few minutes with a volt meter and get the right values, should be ok.

If I need to calibrate these sensors, how do I associate a Cal Table with, e.g., the TP(Main) input?

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Inputs for this engine:

Digital Inputs

  1. Start Position +12v
  2. (can connect throttle closed whenever it's supported by Link as an input for idle control)

The throttle closed switch is not worth wiring up to the ECU, as you can make the ECU activate a virtual auxiliary channel at whatever position of TP(Main) you want. Save the input for something else (like a driver operated switch).

Analog Inputs

  1. 83420-20040 factory engine coolant temp sensor
    Which Sensor Type should I use here?
  2. Factory inlet air temperature sensor
    Which Sensor Type should I use here?

Our Toyota plug-in ECUs appear to use the 'Std Bosch' calibration. If you select this do the sensors read approximately correct? If you want to do some testing here is the bosch calibration (in Ohms):

Std_Bosch_Cal.thumb.PNG.693297bfe702e37c

  1. Factory MAP sensor
    Should I even use this?  I'm basing my tune off of TPS and using the built-in MAP sensor as a BAP "Equation load source".
    If I do TPS tune, should I also use "No FP Correction"?

Is your fuel pressure regulator referenced to inlet manifold vacuum? If yes then I recommend wiring connecting the MAP sensor up to the inlet manifold and setting the Fuel System type to 'MAP Referenced'. Alternatively you could fit a fuel pressure sensor and select 'FP referenced'.

  1. Factory TPS sensor
    Pretty sure I'll need to just spend a few minutes with a volt meter and get the right values, should be ok.

If I need to calibrate these sensors, how do I associate a Cal Table with, e.g., the TP(Main) input?

The ECU has a TPS Calibration function. Click ECU Controls > TPS Setup.

For the MAP sensor you will need to select the MAP sensor type (4.0 bar for the inbuilt sensor on the monsoon) and then with the key on and engine off select ECU Controls > MAP Sensor Calibration. This will make the ECU compare the MAP and BAP readings and adjust the MAP calibration so the reading matches the BAP.

Scott

Edited by Scott

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Seemed redundant, but the factory ECU liked to idle better when I recalibrated the TPS sensor so it was signalling 0 correctly.  Won't bother with the TPS=0 wire.

I'll test the temperature/resistance later and use the std Bosch calibration for now.  Thanks for the confirmation.

Yes, my fuel pressure regulator is MAP referenced (via a tiny vacuum line into ITB 1).
Are you suggesting that I connect the Monsoon's built in MAP sensor to the inlet manifold, or are you suggesting that I use the Toyota MAP sensor?  Seems to me like maybe the Link one will work better, especially since there would be a ~3 foot vacuum hose acting as a manifold of sorts to buffer the ITB vacuum pulse.

I'm not using open trumpets, I've got the 20v air intake plumbed to the AW11 airbox in the trunk.  There's probably a little vacuum in there to read under WOT I'd guess, but data logging will tell all soon.

Does the Monsoon have a BAP sensor built-in in addition to its MAP sensor?

I'm doing programming and planning my wire harness; should have at least a partial harness done next weekend.  Really eager to get this wired in!

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Are you suggesting that I connect the Monsoon's built in MAP sensor to the inlet manifold, or are you suggesting that I use the Toyota MAP sensor?  Seems to me like maybe the Link one will work better, especially since there would be a ~3 foot vacuum hose acting as a manifold of sorts to buffer the ITB vacuum pulse.

I would use the Link MAP sensor. You will be able to see how stable the signal is once you're ready to run the engine. The fuel pressure regulator is going to be seeing the same MAP reading as the ECU.

Scott

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Got the parts, built a patch harness and plugged it in to see what PCLink thought of the state of things.  At 7 degrees C both the water and air temp sensors are within a degree or so of what weather.com says the temperature is.  TPS works great.  Thanks for the tips.

Looking forward to installing the o2 sensor, wiring the ignition and running the vacuum line to the ECU over the next few days.

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Got it started last night.  The firing order table could use slightly better documentation - I interpreted the Cylinders label as defining the 1234 axis values to be cylinders, where the values would be the firing order.  In fact, the Cylinders label is more appropriately Firing Order and the values are cylinder numbers.  Maybe my brain is wired backwards, but maybe put a note in the PC Link documentation?  :-) 

CAN Lambda is discoverable by the ecu (can "see" it and set the lambda # and comm rate) but not contributing a runtime value.  Need to figure this out before starting again.

Really blew me away how well it ran after I fixed the amateur firing order mistake.  Little time with a working lambda and I think it'll idle better than the factory ecu.  Good work Link people! 

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I use G1, but that turns out to be wrong.  No big deal really, my trigger calibration just adds 360 degrees to the offset to get TDC compression.  I'd use G2 if I did it again.

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