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Pieter Gouwy

G4+ wire-in to 3sge with itb's

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hi,

As the title says i've wired in a G4+ storm ecu into an old corolla with a 3SGE BEAMS with an sq engineering 4age itb conversion plate. For idle control i've used a nissan ca18 idle control solenoid. Wich splits into 4 pipes to each intake pipe.

I've followed the link wire-in manual as close as possible and as the thing turns round when i turn the key and sometimes even gives a spark of life,and it even ran on with the aid of a bit of throttle for about 10 seconds. So i think i wired it in correctly or at least emi decent.

this is how i connected it (don't know if it is relevant)

beams blacktop sensor (with blactop 20v itb)wire colorlink G4+ storm ecu pinlink ecu wire color
crank pos sensorblack/white greenshieldTRIGGER 1Black (shielded)
cam angle sensor intakegreen greenshieldTRIGGER 2red (shielded)
cam angle sensor exhaustbrown greenshieldDI1Grey/black
knock sensorblack blueshieldDI3 knockGrey/red
tps EG GroundBrownGround outgreen tps bundle
tps idle on/off unused pin with itb'sblack/red////////////////////////////////
tps (signal wire)yellow/greenAN volt 3Yellow/black
tps +5V (shared by map)blue/yellow+5V (split with map +5V)Red/Blue
AEM AFR meter digital outputwhiteDI2Grey/brown
VTC intake +white/red12V from relay 
VTC intake -yellow/blackaux 1Orange/Black
VTC exhaust +greyish brown12v from relay 
VTC exhaust -lightgreen/blackaux 2Orange/brown
watertempred/whitetemp1Yellow
injector 1redINJ1Brown/Black
injector 2blueINJ2Brown
injector 3greenINJ3Brown/Red
injector 4red/whiteINJ4Brown/Orange
IGT1 (coilpack1)black/blueIGN1Blue
IGT2brown/redIGN2Blue/brown
IGT3brown/whiteIGN3Blue/Red
IGT4blue/redIGN4Blue/Orange
shared +12V for all coilpacksblack/white12V from relayrelay 3
    
    
    
+12V injector shared wireblack/red12V from relayrelay 2
    
airtemp 1 bosch airtemp sensorfocTemp 2Yellow/Brown
    
shield wires of all triggers (cas, cam, knock) plastic tapeShield/GndGreen
ground wires for all triggersblueShield/GndGreen
Fan Relay Aux 3Orange/Red
Ecu Relay 1 14VRed
Fuel pump relay Aux 40range
Tacho Aux 7Orange/Blue
IACV Aux 8Orange/Purple
Check engine light  Aux 6Orange/Green

 

injection mode is set to sequential

fuel equation to traditional

equation load source to load BAP (map sensor just reads the atmosphere pressure of the cabin so it isn't connected to anything)

fuel pressure is set to 40 psi as i've seen this is what most people running 3sge's are running with a return line

charge temp correction is on since i have a bosch ntc temp sensor

tps is from the 4age itb's and is calibrated

map sensor is also calibrated (no idea how to check it)

i copied the injector data from the stock sxe10 that comes with the software as these injectors are still in the engine (don't really know if this is ok)

haven't got a clue on how to set up cold start, played with it going on the information in the last bit of the wire-in ecu manual, turning most of it off and using charge temp approx table which didn't work

IAT fuel correction is ON (manual suggested it)

accel enrich is OFF (manual also suggested it for first start)

close loop lambda is on stoic mode (wide band) with ECT lockout on 70degr RPM lockout on 4000RPM and 500RPM as low, Map lockout at 160kpa Ftrim limit at 15% and gain control at 2. The signal comes from the white signal wire from the AEM UEGO sideband gauge wired to the ecu's digital input 2

 

My main questions at this point are,

-how do i see if the isc is actually working or not? as on the aux screen it is showed as off at A8.

-what did i do wrong to the lambda setup or wiring as the gauge works but i don't see feedback on the pclink

-doi use the up the warm up cycle or the IAT fuel correction table to adjust for cold start?

 

Lets start at that because i'm very new to this and my brains are melting...

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Hi Pieter,

Well done on the work you have done so far. 

When the MAP sensor is calibrated correctly 'MAP' in PCLink should read approx 101 kPa with key on and engine off.

As you are using traditional fuel equation mode I recommend turning the charge temp correction off and using the Fuel > Cold Start and Fuel > Fuel Corrections > IAT Fuel Correction as this is easier to setup.

For now I also recommend turning the closed loop lambda off. Once you have the engine up and running and mostly tuned you can look at turning it back on.

To see what is happening with the Idle Speed Control open the Runtime Values Window (F12 key) and go to the 'Aux Functions' tab. In the bottom left column you will see some Idle Speed information. Important ones to look at are the Idle Status and the Idle position.

Which lambda unit are you using? Can you attach your base-map so I can see exactly how you have it setup? You can do this by clicking File > Save as.. and then uploading the file to the forum.

You could also upload a short PCLog of you trying to start the engine. This will help us see what is happening. We have a short video guide on this, see: 

https://youtu.be/_P1LRANeO4A

Scott

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Also curious which air valve you used from the CA18. There is the actual IAC valve which is pulse width modulated and there is an auxiliary air valve which is simply a bimetallic valve which slowly closes the longer constant 12v is applied to it similar to a carb choke. The IAC actually bolts to the side of the upper manifold where the AACV has a barb on each side and is plumbed to the manifold with hose. The AACV will not work for idle control as it is not fast enough to react to changes in RPM. 

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hi,

thanks for the tips already!

i'll try all of the above in my lunch break, sometimes i need to do actual work to... :(

@blaine, i've used the IAC valve (pulse width modulated) as u mentioned and set it to 160hz i think (will double-check). I pulled the one with the bi metal off first, but then realized it operates to slowly as u pointed out. Good point tho!

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hi,

@Scott
So, i made the settings so IAT is off or is that not what u meant by turning the charge temp correction off? That wasn't quite clear to me.
Also bear in mind, i've set all these settings by reading the manuals/online info and all pclink help popups to what i thought they should be set to. (didn't want to bother to much on here before having done some research myself as i want to learn how to a bit by trying)
With this i mean i've set all settings like traditional fuel equiation mode because the pclink help suggested it for engines that have unstable intake pressure, wich i think this type of setup is?

About the Map sensor, i've set it to BAP for the same reason as above and left the MAP sensor pipe open to cabin atmosphere. It reads 104.1 now it's -2 degrees outside now but i've got the workshop heated to 14 degrees. Only weird thing is, when i blow/vacuum into the Map connection, it stays on 104kpa on the logging screen, is this due to the BAP setting or is something wrong?

I've added the base map (i think u might want to have a look in all config settings as i wasnt 100% sure about everything i entered) and the log file. It started for a few seconds after a few times cranking and nearly everytime on first crank and when i stop cranking it fires on one cilinder. Sometimes it fires a good bang out the exhaust/ITB's aswell when i turn off the ignition..

 

@Blaine, this "special" Belgian needs to get it going first then...
I've got good understanding of how an engine works but i'm far off of being an experienced mapper. I do have my own dyno and some experience on power fc's in nissans but this feels like i'm just having a stab at it all as it's the first time on link...

thanks for the help allready

nocluewhatimdoinglog1.llg

nocluewhatimdoing.pclr

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hi,

i forgot to answer Scott's question, i have an AEM UEGO sideband kit with the white wire (digital output) to the DI2 on the link.Gauge seems to operate fine.

Also a mate pointed out i may have wired my idle control solenoid wrong. It currently gets power from the efi relay or +15 relay on one end. And the other end goes in the link ecu i've set it to AUX8 on 160hz (as thats what i found on a forum for this solenoid) so we don't know if it sounds ground or positive power impulses to that solenoid?

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The white wire is a 0-5V out put so will need to be connected to a AN volt input on the ECU not a digital input. (this wont effect the engine running at this point)

That solenoid wiring is correct the ECU supplies the ground.

 

On looking at the file you are on older firmware so I would suggest upgrading to the latest as there was a fix for the fuelling when running BAP for the fuel calculation.

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hi,

Did the firmware update as requested and checked if it is infact updated and it is.
Used map compare to have a look to but it didnt get me any wiser.

Re-wired the AEM wideband to the AN Volt 4 White Back, will post another complete scheme once the other laptop fires up again. (mightt be handy to someone else later on)

Tried starting several times again to make a log with the AFR on there in wich i learned if i wait untill the fuel pumps stop running and crank it as they have stopped. I get it to turn over for like one second on a few cilinders...

Made a new log file and base map file and attached it below

Log 2017-01-18 11;04;11 pm.llg

nocluewhatimdoingfirmwareupated.pclr

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Yes, Thats correct Scott. I had to pull the engine due to a water leak at the back of the engine at the bulk and fix it in the meantime. Now that it's back in i had another try with it turning all warm up enrichment and accel enrich off and manually keeping it going with making it start with high numbers on the fuel table to get it going. And progressively changing the fuel table as it warms up.
That way i got it running until it was warm, but once i got my foot off the accelerator it stalled and i was unable to re-start no matter what fuel ing i supplied.

I started doubting about the Digital Inputs and how i set them up. Anyone that can tell me if i did this correctly?

 

beams blacktop sensor (with blactop 20v itb)wire colorlink G4+ storm ecu pinlink ecu wire color
crank pos sensorblack/white greenshieldTRIGGER 1Black (shielded)
cam angle sensor intakegreen greenshieldTRIGGER 2red (shielded)
cam angle sensor exhaustbrown greenshieldDI1Grey/black
knock sensorblack blueshieldDI3 knockGrey/red
tps EG GroundBrownGround outgreen tps bundle
tps idle on/off unused pin with itb'sblack/red////////////////////////////////
tps (signal wire)yellow/greenAN volt 3Yellow/black
tps +5V (shared by map)blue/yellow+5V (split with map +5V)Red/Blue
AEM AFR meter digital outputwhiteAn volt 2White/black
VTC intake +white/red12V from relay 
VTC intake -yellow/blackaux 1Orange/Black
VTC exhaust +greyish brown12v from relay 
VTC exhaust -lightgreen/blackaux 2Orange/brown
watertempred/whitetemp1Yellow
injector 1redINJ1Brown/Black
injector 2blueINJ2Brown
injector 3greenINJ3Brown/Red
injector 4red/whiteINJ4Brown/Orange
IGT1 (coilpack1)black/blueIGN1Blue
IGT2brown/redIGN2Blue/brown
IGT3brown/whiteIGN3Blue/Red
IGT4blue/redIGN4Blue/Orange
shared +12V for all coilpacksblack/white12V from relayrelay 3
    
    
    
+12V injector shared wireblack/red12V from relayrelay 2
    
airtemp 1 bosch airtemp sensorfocTemp 2Yellow/Brown
    
shield wires of all triggers (cas, cam, knock) plastic tapeShield/GndGreen
ground wires for all triggersblueShield/GndGreen
Fan Relay Aux 3Orange/Red
Ecu Relay 1 14VRed
Fuel pump relay Aux 40range
Tacho Aux 7Orange/Blue
IACV Aux 8Orange/Purple
Check engine light  Aux 6Orange/Green
start position ign switch DI4White/Brown

 

This is how i connected it after the tips i got on here.

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Looking through the way you have allocated to digital input channels I'm not seeing any problems.

Can you upload your base-map and a PCLog of you starting the engine, keeping the engine running, and then removing your foot from the throttle until the engine dies?

Scott

 

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hi, Yes i've managed it to start it, however it sprung a water leak at the back of the engine, and due to the engine being a bit inside the firewall i've been forced to take it out to fix it.

Now that it's back in i've tried to start it again and i've noticed some things:

As suggested by Simon i had a play and set the main fuel table to 32 to coldstart it and back down to 18-20 s soon as is actually turning over by itsself. then pogressively turning the fuel down in the main fuel map to keep it going in an attempt to get some temp in it to start with.

i started the log a bit to late as i was a bit to occupied trying to keep an eye on everything. But u'll be able to see i had it running for a bit and then without changing anything on the fuel tab, and without changing the TP it just died out and from there on out just wouldn't restart anymore no matter what amount of fuel i gave it.

Fuel presssure stayed the same as it cut off as my eyes were on the gauge.
IAT is set to off
warm up enrich is all set to 0
pre crank, crank and post start enrich are on with values i took from the pc link software's base map fro sxe10

Could it be that i'm having trouble because the idle control valve is doing its thing and the amount of air isnt measured for so no additional fuel is added while it is operational? So at switch over points in temperature its running to rich at certain points?

Or is it just down to tuning the charge temp approx table?

corollafuelmainup2ndattemptwarmVVTon.pclr

Log 2017-01-24 10;34;02 pm.llg

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It's a little hard to say for certain what is causing this behaviour. I don't think it will be the idle system as I can see you're opening the throttle with your foot to allow extra air in and this still isn't helping.

Here are some things I would check/change/try.

  • Your ignition table load (Y) axis is set to MAP, but the MAP reading isn't changing (I'm guessing it's not connected). Try changing this to throttle position.
  • I see the amount of trigger errors is increasing as you attempt to start the engine. Use the ECUs TriggerScope function to check the amplitude of trigger 1 and trigger 2 so you can set the Trigger arming threshold tables correctly. Do this at cranking speed and at 1000 rpm now, and do the higher rpms later once you have a good consistent start.
  • Add in some warm up enrichment. At the start of your log I can see the post start enrichment finishes and the engines dies shortly after this.

end_of_post_start_enrichment.thumb.PNG.f

Scott

 

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hi,

-Map is indeed not connected. as the nature of the itb's would give a bit of a unstabe reading or am i wrong? (hence why i used BAP instead of MAP)

-I used the trigger scope function and found it was proucing 180mV so i set it to the minimum of 0.2 at 1000rpm (i've included the log to doublecheck if i did this the correct way or not) the ecu now doesnt appear to show the fault code anymore.

-i added some enrich both for cranking (quite a lot) and some for warm up. but every time after a few seconds i find that it dies out and i can't really see on my lamda gauge if it's running to rich or lean when it does. I had a look in the log file but i cant work out how to zoom in and out on specific items i want to bring up to compare to the rpm signal.

For example if i open the log and use alt+up it enlarges both the rpm and warm up enrich. and i cant nicely compare as u made the example above.

Super thanks for the help so far! Log 2017-01-26 1;27;14 pm.llg

Log 2017-01-26 1;27;14 pm.llg

Trigger Scope Log 2017-01-25 8;43;06 pm.llg

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You log shows the Lambda to be excessively rich. It isnt all in the enrichments either. I would remove 10-15 percent from the base fuel map and try that. That being said, at the end of each of the runs there is a large spike in RPM as well as an associated trigger error that would indicate a trigger problem. The spike is happening while the engine is running and would cause a fairly large amount of fuel to be injected momentarily which would not help for keeping the engine running. Maybe the guys at Link can shed some light on it. You definitely need to get a trigger scope. I think that is going to be where you will find the problem.

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I just noticed your intake cam is moving by 17 degrees right when the trigger issue happens and does not return to park before the engine stalls. This is definitely going to cause some issues. Can you post a current .pcl file so I can have a look at your settings?

Scott, 

   Is there an afterstart condition on the VVT system that disables it for a preset afterstart period or is it simply temp based. Being the MAP is reading high the VVT system is becoming active and phasing the cams. It seems to be the same 12 seconds on both starts in the log. A quick simple test would be to base the VVT table off of TPS which I would probably do anyway and see if the problem resolves itself.

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I had a look through the map.

Connect a vac hose to your map sensor and drop the attached cal file in, should help point you in the right direction.

I dropped in my cold start fuel settings and adjusted your fuel table a hair.  You may need to tweak the master fuel mult as I run modelled eq.

Changed the load axis on your timing table from MAP to TPmain

You had the max clamp on the IACV set way low like 15 or something. changed that to 90%

Didn't make many other changes other than changing load equation to MAP instead of BAP.  ( I know the manual says BAP for itbs but Ive tried both ways and its way easier to deal with as MAP with load axis on the fuel and ignition tables as TP.)

 

corollafuelmainup2ndattemptwarmVVTon Brad.pclr

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hi,

Again, verry good point there Blaine, i didnt setup the trigger further than 1000rpm and failed to spot that it is actually running at 2000 rpm on its idle position.
This is because when i was adjusting the throttle opening i set them a bit to wide so i might reset them in the morning to a bit less opening and recalibrate the TPS. Or would u guys stay off it untill it wants to run a bit better than it is doing now before changing this.
I did hower use the trigger scope function again and corrected this. Is this enough or do u want me te measure the signal with an osciloscope? (dont know if this is correct english for the tool)

I tried Brad's setup, connected the vacuum hose to the built in map with less or more the same result. after playing with the fueling a bit it got running on idle at what point i didnt touch it and let it warm up for once.
Ran well untill i touched the throttle then it went lean i reckon and died and i was unable to restart it. (warm restart is an issue i haven't been able to resolve from te start)
My mapper that usually tunes my cars also pointed out i needed to set the IGN to TPS instead of MAP.

The AEM wideband sensor has died on me (probably because of trying to much and having the exhaust backfires)
However i made a video with my Phone wich shows the innovate handheld wideband i had in the back end of the exhaust that is showing pretty random numbers for some reason. I will have a new sensor in the morning for the AEM so i can maybe make a complete log file.

here's the log file of it running and the verry slightly altered base map and log of it running from what brad made up. thanks for helping out btw!

corollafuelmainup2ndattemptwarmVVTon Bradtpsset.pclr

Log 2017-01-27 9;57;31 pm.llg

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Pieter, 

     Where was the sensor for your innovate located? Is it in a bung by the manifold or is it a tailpipe probe? Its hard to tell for sure whats going on without an accurate wideband reading. I altered the map a bit to make the crank prime functional. It was set to ign start and it doesnt appear you have an ignition start input wired. I have also given a bit more resolution to the Fuel table to work a bit more smoothly at initial throttle opening. A decrease in the Idle base position has also been made. This may help the idle come down however I think your throttles may have to be closed a bit more and tps recalibrated.

corollafuelmainhigherresfuelmapdecreasediac.pclr

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hi,

@blaine@carmenaperformance, is this the latest base map, with the settings from Brad that u corrected or the one before? so with the map connected?

I had the sensor in at the back of the exhaust pipe but normally i do get decent/more stable AFR numbers even when its that far back... I do understand however where u are going with this and i will make an update with the AEM back in running order asap.

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Pieter,

   This was an alteration of the map Brad sent. The MAP is used in the fuel calculation to an extent so I would connect it. If you are not going to connect it change the load source back to BAP. The tailpipe probe is definitely not ideal for low RPM use. I have seen some pretty crazy readings at low rpm due to reversion. The AEM O2 was giving nice stable readings in your old logs. When/if you get the car running on this .pcl you can alter the numbers around the 0-2 percent range in the fuel table. Wait till the engine is up to temp before making and drastic chages to the base fuel table. You want it off of any warm up enrichment. At the beginning I would target around 13:1 AF at idle. This should give you a stable idle. You can alway lean it out later when things are running better. Please post a log when the AEM is back in action.

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hi,

So, i had another try not touching anything untill it got warm, with much more succes this time!  It reacts well to throttle opening now. i've seen u've added  few sights or rows (dont know the propper name for them) to fuel table at opening.
Should i do the same for ignition? Or am i correct assuming the throttle opening wouldnt have a massive affect on how the ignition should be altered?
It did Indeed need some adapting of the main fuel map. hd to turn it down quite a bit.As the Bosch sensor i received was wrong, I used the Innovate controller and screwed the sensor in the bung of the manifold for now so there is still no log file

However i must add. i turned it off after a few minutes and tried restarting it without succes still.
I must add tho, I set the throttle opening a bit lower and recalibrated the TPS. But only to 1600rpm apparently so i need to lower it some more. (due to the design of the intake adapter i cant alter idle pos without opening the throttles fully)
So it not restarting once warm is a massive issue as i need to wait untill it cools to have another try...
i added the log file of it running and the warm restart but as u can see still no lambda, but i dont think it is relevant when cranking?

I added the ign start position to as it is connected to White-Brown DI4-An-Volt2 and i think i made the connection correctly in the software to.
This however Didnt change a thing to it not wanting to start.

corollablainefueldownignstartadded.pclr

Log 2017-01-29 3;23;00 pm.llg

Log 2017-01-29 3;17;07 pm.llg

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Pieter,

     I did add more rows at the lower ranges. The reason I did this is that with an ITB setup there are exponentially greater changes in flow at lower throttle angles. You will really need those rows to help throttle response with small movements. I usually alter the timing axis to match the fueling axis however I just forgot in this case. Throttle position will have a large affect on how  ignition timing is altered in your case as it it the main load reference for your engine.  

    The throttle will eventually need to be closed more. The idle control solenoid is at its minimum position so it cannot pull the idle down any further. I have added an ignition idle table. This will help pull the engine speed down however ideally you will need to try and get the throttles closed a bit more.

     For the startup you do indeed have the start position wired and configured correctly. I have made some alterations to the base fuel, base timing, and prime pulse maps to try and get it starting better for you. I am flying blind a bit without a good wideband readout but I am hoping this helps. I have also set the map up so that under 500 RPM anything over %80 TPS will shut off the injectors allowing you to clear a flood in case it is overfueling. 

Good luck!

corollablaineignidletable.pclr

Edited by blaine@carmenaperformance
Forgot map

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