Turbo Speed Input: G4+ Thunder DI 11-16

[Jar]

Hello,

I am considering the G4+ Thunder for my project and am looking to bring in turbo speed from a Borg Warner EFR turbo speed sensor.  The compressor has 12 or 14 blades (pulses/rev), and the sensor has a built-in conversion factor of 8.  At a turbo speed of say 155k RPM I calculate I will need an input capable of about 4.5kHz.  

I have downloaded the PCLink software and looked at the documentation which shows most of the DI's are max 500Hz, but DI's 11-16 can do 6.5kHz which would be perfect.  The Wiring Info help file Digital Input Allocation Chart shows Turbo Speed and shows 6.5kHz input on DI's 11-16.  However when playing with the Thunder test file I noticed turbo speed is not configurable on DI's 11-16 (it does appear on DI's 1-8 but with 500Hz limit), and when selecting GP frequency it does not allow me to configure or scale the input, and I don't want to use ukp a virtual channel to make the conversion.

I'm wondering if the test file is just limited due to not being plugged into an actual ECU, preventing me from selecting turbo speed on DI's 11-16?  I'd like to use this ECU for my project and this is the only thing that seems like it might present a problem.

 

[Adamw]

Hi Jar,

Sorry for my slow reply.  I just tested this on a live Thunder and see the same problem.

I suspect this is probably just a firmware oversight and some functions have been missed from the list.  I will talk to the engineering team tomorrow to confirm that and post back my findings. 

[Jar]

Thanks Adam, I'll stand by.

[Jar]

One additional question.  I would like to install a mode function potentiometer (Motec) to change between boost, ignition, DBW maps in 9 different combinations.  I can set a GP input for 0-5v but how do I make it activate the multiple maps?  The maps only look at DI's or virtual outputs so I thought I could set the virtual outputs or other spare outputs (INJ or IGN) with the logic for activation.  Problem is while I can set the logic to look at an analog input, it won't let me choose anything but whole numbers (ex. 3 or 4 but not 3.5) to drive the logic.

 

Am I configuring it wrong, or is there a better way to do this?

Thank you.

[Adamw]

Thanks Adam, I'll stand by.

I can confirm the turbospeed missing from DI11 to DI16 is just an oversight.  The firmware team says there is quite a bit of work to do to add this but it is planned to be ready in time for the next software/firmware release.

 

One additional question.  I would like to install a mode function potentiometer (Motec) to change between boost, ignition, DBW maps in 9 different combinations.  I can set a GP input for 0-5v but how do I make it activate the multiple maps?  The maps only look at DI's or virtual outputs so I thought I could set the virtual outputs or other spare outputs (INJ or IGN) with the logic for activation.  Problem is while I can set the logic to look at an analog input, it won't let me choose anything but whole numbers (ex. 3 or 4 but not 3.5) to drive the logic.

 

Am I configuring it wrong, or is there a better way to do this?

Thank you.

I think this one is going to be a bit difficult to achieve.  We dont really do complete "cal swaps" like some of the higher end motorsport ecu's do.  I think you can possibly do most of what you wish with virtual auxs although without thinking it through in great detail you might burn up the 8 availible pretty quick, basically I think you will need one per switch position.  You should be able to set up a virtual aux for instance to activate when your analog 1 (potentiometer) is between 1.25 and 1.50V, and use that to switch between a couple of your "maps"  You can use that same virtual aux to change for instance a boost table and DBW table at the same time.  There might be smarter ways to combine some of the virtual aux's but I would need to have a play myself.

[Jar]

Adam, I think that'll work fine for my needs, there is a lot of programming flexibility built in that should work.  You mentioned up to 8 virtual aux, I only see 3?

Regarding turbo speed on DI 11-16, do you have an estimated release date for the next firmware?

Thanks for all your help.

[Adamw]

Adam, I think that'll work fine for my needs, there is a lot of programming flexibility built in that should work.  You mentioned up to 8 virtual aux, I only see 3?

I think the sample thunder map supplied with the software might be a few firmware versions old from before we upgraded to 8 virtual aux's.  Here is .pclr you can play with, this copy I saved from a thunder with the latest firmware so it should have all the latest changes visible: https://linkecu-my.sharepoint.com/personal/adam_linkecu_com/_layouts/15/guestaccess.aspx?docid=14017a81874ee4be69ec237beb876fb1e&authkey=AVU02LovGnb_ZbGaV38zWVo

 

Regarding turbo speed on DI 11-16, do you have an estimated release date for the next firmware?

I dont really want to promise anything since its not in my control but to give you a very rough idea, going by recent history we have done a firmware release approx every 3 months on average.  The last one was about 2 months ago so lets say maybe 1-2months?

[Jar]

Excellent, appreciate the support.  Looks like this will be my next purchase.

[Hellafabrication]

On 2017-04-20 at 8:50 PM, Adamw said:

 

I think the sample thunder map supplied with the software might be a few firmware versions old from before we upgraded to 8 virtual aux's.  Here is .pclr you can play with, this copy I saved from a thunder with the latest firmware so it should have all the latest changes visible: https://linkecu-my.sharepoint.com/personal/adam_linkecu_com/_layouts/15/guestaccess.aspx?docid=14017a81874ee4be69ec237beb876fb1e&authkey=AVU02LovGnb_ZbGaV38zWVo

 

I dont really want to promise anything since its not in my control but to give you a very rough idea, going by recent history we have done a firmware release approx every 3 months on average.  The last one was about 2 months ago so lets say maybe 1-2months?

I'm looking at the thunder base map with only 3 virtual aux for the time being  I'm wondering if the turbo rpm is available yet on di11-16?

 

 

im setup to run the speed sensor to 3,750hz with the 12 blade compressor to 150k rpm. 

[Adamw]

10 hours ago, Hellafabrication said:

I'm wondering if the turbo rpm is available yet on di11-16?

Unfortunately no sorry.  The next firmware release is still a few months away, I have been pushing to have this function fixed for release so hopefully it will be.

[Hellafabrication]

8 hours ago, Adamw said:

Unfortunately no sorry.  The next firmware release is still a few months away, I have been pushing to have this function fixed for release so hopefully it will be.

is there a way to configure it as a different configurable input on the di11-16 for the time being to get some reasonable output from the sensor?  You can choose "frequency" right now... that would at least allow me to multiply it out on my own.  Wiring it to a different digital input would only record up to 20k rpm turbo speed... not useful at all.

[Simon]

Looking at the raw frequency would at least allow you to monitor it and then calculate out the RPM figure

[whiteradam]

@Adamw@Simon

Any update on this?  This is almost a year old now, and PCLink has not gotten an update in 10 months now.  

[Adamw]

The new firmware is getting close but the test version I am working with still doesnt have Turbo speed on the highspeed DI's.  I will try to put some pressure on it and see if we get anywhere.

[Jar]

Hi Adam, any good news on this topic?

If I were to set DI 11-16 to frequency type is the input capable of 4.5k Hz or is the missing firmware limiting this to 500 Hz?  This would allow a short term fix while we wait for the new FW release.

[Adamw]

No love yet sorry but I will keep on it.  You can definitely set the input to frequency and display/log that upto 6500Hz but that means you need to do a calculation everytime to workout RPM.  

I have come up with another workaround that will make it a little easier to understand...

Set whichever DI you are going to use to "Frequency".  Go to >chassis&body>transmission, and set the input shaft speed source to the same DI.  You then get a calibration number to convert that frequency into RPM.  You can then log or display "Input shaft speed" as your turbo RPM.  The only catch is the parameter "input shaft speed" is limited to roughly 65000RPM, so I would set my calibration up as 1/10 of real.  So 105000 turbo RPM would be displayed as 10500RPM.  Easier to just add a zero in your head rather than try to convert from frequency to RPM...

 

 

[Jar]

Any chance the new release addressed this issue?

[Adamw]

No sorry this is still not implemented.  The best workaround for now is the post above yours.

There are quite a few users and dealers pushing for this so I have been pushing for it too.

[Joe Bucci]

Somewhat on this subject...

 

I introduced myself to the Link people who were at The Shootout in Norwalk Ohio this past weekend. I explained to them that I had purchased a Link Fury recently. I told them that I had done a LOT of research both before and after purchasing the ECU, and I was very excited to begin wiring it in. I expressed to them that the only thing I was unhappy about on the Link Fury was the lack of high freq DIs. They told me that they ARE high freq. I told them I understood that the first few DIs were "High" freq at 500hz and the rest were not. They were sure the first few were real high freq like the Thunder.

 

Can you clarify? I want turbo speed AND traction control by wheel speed in my front wheel drive.

[Simon]

The max frequency on the inputs varies a little but 500Hz is the suggested upper limit. Turbo speed will eclipse this easily, Wheel speed will depend on the tooth count using the ABS signal will generally also bee too high.

[Joe Bucci]

But there are no 6500Hz DIs on the Fury, correct?

[Adamw]

11 hours ago, Joe Bucci said:

But there are no 6500Hz DIs on the Fury, correct?

Correct, we quote them as 500Hz on the Fury but they are often capable of a quite a bit more than that depending on how busy the processor interupts are.  For Turbospeed you can use one of these to bring the frequency down: http://www.vems.com/vr-to-hall.html

For wheel speed depending on tooth count it may be ok as is or sometimes you can grind every second tooth off or something similar.

[Richard Hill]

Another way to work around the missing inputs on the Thunder (or to divide an input frequency down on other ECUs) is to use a CMOS 4018 IC.  No external components required and can be powered from the ECUs +5 Volt supply.  To divide by 10, the inverted Q5 output is fed back into the data input pin.  I used this last week to divide by 8 on a fury (I fed back the inverted Q4 pin to data)

Hope this helps,

  Richard.

 

[iruvyouskyrine]

On 10/23/2018 at 7:54 PM, Richard Hill said:

Another way to work around the missing inputs on the Thunder (or to divide an input frequency down on other ECUs) is to use a CMOS 4018 IC.  No external components required and can be powered from the ECUs +5 Volt supply.  To divide by 10, the inverted Q5 output is fed back into the data input pin.  I used this last week to divide by 8 on a fury (I fed back the inverted Q4 pin to data)

Hope this helps,

  Richard.

Hi Richard,

Did this work effectively with the fury ECU? I am not very well versed in electronic circuits/IC's and as such don't quite understand your diagrams. Are you able to perhaps supply some simpler ones and photos of your setup?

Thanks in advance,

Josh

[Richard Hill]

Hi, yes this worked well for my application, what is your exact application and what divisor are you trying to achieve ?