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JM_S2

Bosch EV14 550cc settings

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In my current setup i have Bosch EV14 550cc injectors (0 280 158 117) and i've had some trouble with setup.  

Dead times according Ford Racing are 14V 0.538 12V 0.846 Flow rate according same source is 490cc/3bar/80% Duty cycle.   Static flow rate is said to be 532cc/min

https://www.fiveomotorsport.com/bosch-ev14-0280158117

 

I also found different information. One of the tables gave following information with same 3bar

8V 2.7 10V 1.54 12V 1.12 14V 0.7316V 0.523

Then i found test sheet which gave me following number which are now in use.  They were from actual lab test.

8V 2.184 - 10V 1.435 -11V 1.210 - 12V 1.041 - 13V 0.907 - 14V 0.789 - 15V 0.699

According to a friend who has done a lot of tuning and research with these things my settings are still maybe 0.1 too small between 12-14V .  Still none of these are not even close to numbers which ford has given.  

My problem has been Ve-table which has too big numbers.  (80-135).  i Tried to add 0.1 in dead times but that brought back hot start lean problems.  Then i changed number back.  Then i tried 3bar/490/80% duty cycle flow rate and now VE table scaled down quite nicely. From 60 to 103. When you setup injector size in fuel injector setup is it supposed to be static flow rate or max flow rate with predetermined duty cycle?  Does somebody have more accurate information or should i stick with my numbers?

Edited by JM_S2

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Hi mate.

Just been researching this myself into this too and have found what you did. Attached below are (1) was Bosch Ev14 injector migration on the NefMoto forum and the (2) image is from the ford racing test sheet however they tested this at 39.15 psi.  

Please may I ask what injector latency you used for your car in the end?

This link here https://www.fiveomotorsport.com/bosch-ev14-0280158117 is this correct??

 

 

Cheers, James

 

 

 

 

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=320.msg2661#msg2661

550cc.png.4d073b02f00ebfa52ad7dc3c0d2c9dc7.png 

 

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=1523.msg14491#msg14491

1230164099_0280158117CalibrationSummary.thumb.jpg.c609c4a1ed80c49457fdfc76cfcaa792.jpg

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I would use the Ford racing data since it has the correct part number on it.  Note you can correct the deadtime data for different pressures by multiplying FNPW_OFFSET with the "FNPW_OFFCOMP".  So if we want deadtime at 14V & 50psi for instance it is 0.789 x 1.0240 = 0.950ms

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@Adamw do you know where to get more data for this injector, a FNPW_OFFCOMP up to 100psi would be interesting. Bosch clearly recommends them up to around 100psi.

Unfortunately, it is not linear...

fuel_injectors.jpg

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35 minutes ago, Styp said:

do you know where to get more data for this injector, a FNPW_OFFCOMP up to 100psi would be interesting.

You realise the "psid"  is differential pressure right?  It is not very common to run at 100psi differential, I really only see it a little bit in drag racing with methanol & usually mechanical fuel pumps - yes most of the EV14 injectors work ok up to about 125psid.  But the typical application that needs 100psi differential is something pretty wild so idle quality is long out the window anyway and deadtimes arent going to matter one bit.

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On 4/8/2020 at 12:31 AM, Adamw said:

You realise the "psid"  is differential pressure right?  It is not very common to run at 100psi differential, I really only see it a little bit in drag racing with methanol & usually mechanical fuel pumps - yes most of the EV14 injectors work ok up to about 125psid.  But the typical application that needs 100psi differential is something pretty wild so idle quality is long out the window anyway and deadtimes arent going to matter one bit.

my bad, i didn't see that one! Thanks!

 

I want to improve the available data for this particular injector even further. @Adamw maybe you can have a look at it to verify the methodology.

According to the Ford Racing datasheet for Bosch EV14 0280158117 we know the following values:

ALOSL [lb/s]: 0.015913
AHISL [lb/s]: 0.013497
FUEL_BKPT [lb]: 0.0000144400
MINPW [ms]: 0.711

To illustrate my thoughts I drew the following plot:

fuel_graph.png.a0fb678076328dc1ece407c45318a4f7.png

What I know for a fact:

  • The ECU (G4) calculates and amount of fuel needed according to the model used. (Modelled mode only!)
  • The 'model' of the injector is supposed to be linear, maxing out at 47lb/hr@39.15psi
    I verified the slope of m_high = AHISL -> is within a small range of the linearized slope with 0/0 and 47lb/3'600'000ms
  • FUEL_BKPT is the point at which the low slope turnes into high slope
  • The shortest reproducable injection time is MINPW

What I did so far:

  • The crossover of ALOSL and AHISL (m_low -> m_high) is at 0.00001444lb  of fuel or 1.069ms
    0.00001444[lb] = 0.013497[lb/s] * t => 1.069ms

The crossover of ALOSL and AHISL has to intersect at 0.00001444 lb and 1.069ms, resulting in the offset of ALOSL (q):

0.00001444[lb] = 0.015913[lb/s] * 1.069*10^-3 + q => q = -2.584*10^-6 [lb] The minimum pulsewidth MINPW (0.711ms) is the part where the biggest 'difference' of ALOSL and AHISL is introduced:
HIGH: 0.013497[lb/s] * 0.711*10^-3 = 9.560817*10^-6[lb] -> minimum sprayable amount of fuel!
=> 9.560817*10^-6[lb] = 0.015913[lb/s] * t - 2.584*10^-6[lb] => t = 0.763ms The delta at MINPW (0.711ms) -> 0.763ms - 0.711ms = 0.052ms

And now the datapoints:

short_pulse_width_adder.png.fb6963096f0a0c88ee9c95403249512f.png

 

Hope that is correct and helps other people to convert FORD characterization to GM characterization as used in Link G4.

Cheers!

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I didnt check your math but your graph appears to match my understanding.

However, for most people with an injector this small the short PW adder is irelevant as you will never command a PW that short.  On a typical car size engine you would never be below about 2ms with an injector this small.  I typically dont bother with SPWA until im over about 1200cc injectors.

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