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George GEP

Injector PW is changing itself - really strange

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OK so there is story

car is inline 6 cylinder BMW, which is running set of 65lb injectors, it is turbocharged S54B32 fully running on Link Xtreme wire in ecu..

there is really strange issue, car goes Rich itself and goes lean itself whenever it wants... i dont see myself any reason for that i just noticed that it is ecu related not hardware as injector pulse is changing when event occurs...  i dont have log that contains both events lean and rich but i have rich event here that i can post

there is no fuel correction kicking in as much as i see it... maybe Simon or anybody else can see what is wrong there that could cause car go lean or rich

i'm not talking about moving car  when car is standing and idling.. it may run lean or it may run rich  whenever it wants without any logic....  i have fuel adjustments by speed and it had 0 relation to Idle part

 

so basically on idle injector pulse width looks like 2.4ms (when it runs rich) and when it goes exremely lean it goes like 2- 1.9ms

 

please kindly check and suggest your ideas

 

 

strange-issue.pclr

rich.llg

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That lean spike at about 2:25 happens right when your engine temp first hist 90 deg C. You have Engine fan 1 enable temp set to 90 deg as well, and that looks to come on at the same time. Looks to me like the engine load going up a bit because of this fan. Your revs drop a little at the same time, and battery voltage drops from ~13.7 to around 12 for a few seconds. You have engine fan step set at +1.8% in the ethrottle calibration which should prevent this, but it doesnt seem to have kicked in here for some reason. Maybe someone else can see why not?

On a separate note, your TPS sub signal is sitting at 20% while the TPS main is at 3.4%. This will cause it to error out after a few minutes and disable your ethrottle. It looks to move up and down with the TPS main signal so hopefully just needs recalibrating.

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ok im not talking about spikes :) i know that..

as i said i dont have log of lean condition but it is not spike it is just Condition that car runs in for a while u may even adjust whole fueling map (it will run lean so long) then it comes back to rich side or normal side... 

 

 

On a separate note, your TPS sub signal is sitting at 20% while the TPS main is at 3.4%. This will cause it to error out after a few minutes and disable your ethrottle. It looks to move up and down with the TPS main signal so hopefully just needs recalibrating.

Thanks for that note

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Hello Sending Latest log files V9 file contains lean condition and after several stall and startups it goes rich side

AFR is not connected to ecu and not logged but u can identify when it goes rich by PW change... i see PW is rising when fan kicks in but goes back when it goes off i understand that but besides that event it goes richer   or even i can not understand which condition is normal for ecu running lean or running rich... whatever it is u have V9 tune file and V9 log file to see 

 

thanks in advance

throttle-went-off.llg

v9-idles-lean-then-rich.pclr

v9-idles-lean-then-rich-LOG.llg

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As you seem to be getting limited help I will have a go by telling you what I would try.

I have never tried with an electronic throttle but your combination of idle ignition table and e-throttle settings for idle doesn't look like what I would expect (particularly hot idle timing when the RPM is above the 1000rpm target).  For whatever reason, what looks to happen is that your throttle target opens up from 2-2.5% to 3.5% and rpm goes from well below target to well above, with the idle ignition table trying to compensate with a big swing (also driven by the ECT change) from ~20* to -2*. This may not actually be causing the problem, but if it was tidied up it may help trouble shooting. The actual change in PW looks like it could simply be related to the change in rpm?

(edit - you can also see where the AC request kicked in at -2m10s how this caused the same big change in TP and drop in timing. This table looks too aggressive)

(further edit as it was bugging me and I looked again - the AC request and going over 85* also puts on fan 3, which raises the TPS target and adds fuel. Perhaps these settings are also too aggressive)

For those who know e-throttle better than I, how could a TP target of 2% have an E-throttle motor DC of 25% (see -2m30s in the log), 2.5% have 50% (see -1m30s) then 3.5% have 27% (see +1m10s)? And what is E-throttle 1 ISC CL Trim and why is it almost always 1.5% - is this a clamp on closed loop control?

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10 hours ago, George GEP said:

AFR is not connected to ecu and not logged but u can identify when it goes rich by PW change

I wouldnt jump to that conclusion.  If you want to diagnose a fuel mixture problem then you will need a lambda connected.  Without that we are shooting in the dark.  It might be more obvious to you as you can hear and see the engine running, but a log without that feedback is not very helpful.

 

5 hours ago, CamB said:

For those who know e-throttle better than I, how could a TP target of 2% have an E-throttle motor DC of 25% (see -2m30s in the log), 2.5% have 50% (see -1m30s) then 3.5% have 27% (see +1m10s)?

The S54 Ethrottle has 6 ITB's (return spring on each), the linkage is very non-linear at the initial opening and Engine vacuum seems to have a large effect on them (I suspect the butterfly shaft isnt centered so vacuum pulls them closed, maybe a safety feature?)  It takes a lot of grunt to get open when there is high manifold vacuum.  Our E-throttle hardware is a bit borderline for driving these and some guys have trouble even after removing some springs.

 

5 hours ago, CamB said:

And what is E-throttle 1 ISC CL Trim and why is it almost always 1.5% - is this a clamp on closed loop control?

This is normally the amount of throttle that the closed loop system is trimming the "E-throttle 1 target" to maintain the idle RPM target.  In this log however it appears Idle speed control is not even working - the idle status shows "speed not selected", which usually means a speed lockout is set up but there is no speed source.  I dont know if he has changed the map after the log was taken or whether there is something odd going on.

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thanks for input

 

watch log from 4:22 to 4:50

selection time: 0:33 - 0:59

you see PW is 2:336 then it goes to 2.558 in this log ok there is RPM Difference but Exactly the same thing happens on SAME rpm range and im trying to figure out what the hell is wrong here.

it is not RPM related i'm sure i know i dont have Wideband Logged but this is the problem what i see just cant figure out why it happens

when i started car it was idling pretty lean and PW was like 2.33-2.20 then with SAME fueling figures it became 2.5-2.6pw :) HOW? :D

 

 

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Adam - thanks for answering the questions.

George - the main difference between those points is that the fan going on has opened the throttle 1.8% (Engine Fan Step - one of the idle settings) and increased fueling by 0.50ms (Eng Fan Trim - one of the fuel corrections). This appears to raise the RPM materially, which in turn moves the timing from 25*BTDC to 1.5*ATDC (which isn't enough to pull the idle down to target). Adam says closed loop idle control doesn't seem to be working, so that isn't able to finish the job. Your other logs look to have the lambda sensor connected, and they show rich in this state which it may well be.

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Also for everyone's interest, I'm pasting my reply to the same question George sent to Tech support:

Hi George,

Below is a time plot of the 0:33-0:59 area. You will see at 0:40 the Engine fan trim of 0.5ms is applied, this accounts for most of the change in effective pulse width that you are looking for. It is not quite 0.5ms because as the RPM lifts you can see the main fuel table number has reduced a little from 24% to 22%.

N2HiBSH.png

 

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It applies to any of the fans, if that's what you mean? For you, Fan 3 comes on first. 

The help file says:

Engine Fan Trim is amount of time in milliseconds added to the injector pulse width when the engine fan is activated.

Note:  This setting is categorised under "idle" load trims.  However, this setting is actually applied at all times when the Engine Fan auxiliary output is enabled.

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