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M1tch

Basemap?

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Just ordered an AEM 3.5 Bar MAP sensor and another temp sensor for the intake air temp - although it looks like this is taken care of already, its just the MAF signal that isn't being input (and guessing replaced with the wiring for the MAP).

Once this arrives I will plug in the MAP sensor and run with the MAF still in place for the intake temp reading initially.

I will also look to upgrade the knock sensor to a Bosch doughnut at some point soon as well - the current engine is stock and will be swapped out, will probably retard the ignition slightly before firing the car up but I think I am almost there for first start!

One of the things I am looking forward to is the closed loop fueling using the wideband - having all sorts of issues with the Power FC and closed loop as it uses the stock O2 sensors which are narrowband so not ideal for fine tuning.

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I have now installed a new AEM MAP sensor - its a 5 BAR one as the 3.5 BAR was out of stock so I have adjusted the sensor calculation for the different scale vs voltage.

Good news is that the car fired up! I had it idling with the master fuel at around 6ms, it was initially set to something like 19 which basically had loads of fuel and smoke out the back as it was running richer than 8:1.

I have my wideband plugged in, however not yet inputting to the ECU - the open barrel crimp tool is on its way but wanted to get it fired up initially.

I have attached a log for my initial start up, I can see the sensor calibration still isn't quite right as its showing a high ECT when the engine is cold as well as a high intake air temp which I think is messing with things - its showing a ECT of 67c with a cold engine and 61C intake temp rather than mid 20s.

At 6ms on the master fuel the AFR on cold start was at around 11.5:1, seems to go lean and stall out if I blip the throttle so I am guessing that the cold start enrichment is keeping it running - once I have the wideband O2 plugged into the ECU I should be able to use the autotune option. The basemap is based off a tuned boosted Toyota Yaris (so would only be using the off boost part of the map!).

Thank you so much for everyone who has helped so far, getting there but I just need a few bit of help to get the car idling and running as it should do - not taken it out as of yet as I know the sensors aren't calibrated correctly as well as not having the AFRs logging at the moment.

 

 

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does the map sensor calibration succeed? the vacuum reading at idle seems off.  The turbo 1zz I've got here idles with a MAP of 25kpa , yours is idling around 85kpa.  If it was my car I'd rewire your harness to have the ECT and IAT sensors connect to the analog temp inputs instead of the AN Volt inputs.  Then you can use the built-in Bosch NTC calibration and 1K pullup resistor

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8 hours ago, Adamw said:

Map cal table is wrong. I’m replying on a phone so can’t do a screenshot but input A should be 0.5v, not 0v

Thank you, will sort that out, just need to work on the calibration of the temp sensors. Still have the MAF attached which is being used for the air temp, I do have another air temp sensor to use at some point. Wanted to start off with how it's been wired together by Boomslang etc.

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I have changed the MAP cal table so its now at 0.5, with regards to the temp sensors, I might look to swap the pins over to the AN temp inputs, although I can see that its using a cal table and AN volt at the moment - seems quite odd that the PnP harness would use those inputs.

The sensors are Denso so will try and find the calibration figures for them, I do have a intake air temp sensors still to install (instead of using the MAF) which has the calibration data for it so might see if I can get that installed and use that instead - might be able to use the wiring on the stock plug to wire it in as a simpler solution to get me going.

http://www.efi-parts.co.uk/index.php?productID=181

I might also look to get a coolant temp sensor as well to replace the stock one if that makes things easier as well:

http://www.efi-parts.co.uk/index.php?productID=125

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The unknown with the temp sensors is the value of the pull-up in the stock ecu.  Judging from the example temperatures you gave above Im going to hazzard a guess that the pull-up is about 3Kohm.  Can you try changing your cal 1 set up to Volts rather than ohms and input the numbers below.

AynMnsH.png

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46 minutes ago, Adamw said:

The unknown with the temp sensors is the value of the pull-up in the stock ecu.  Judging from the example temperatures you gave above Im going to hazzard a guess that the pull-up is about 3Kohm.  Can you try changing your cal 1 set up to Volts rather than ohms and input the numbers below.

AynMnsH.png

Thank you - will give it a try, I have a spare MAF and temp sensor in the garage so will try and look up the part numbers - might just be simpler to go with a known sensor and values though but will try and get things sorted using the stock sensors - thank you so much for your help so far on this!

 

Edit - just looking at alternative coolant sensors online, there is one listed with a resistance of 2080, 280 which i am guessing is the max and min resistance of the sensor - tempted to simply swap out the temp sensor though as it should be fairly easy to get to on the engine although it does seem to have a different connector typically!

I think I have found something that might be of use - not sure if it matches off with any other sensor though:

Water temp sensor

2cy493p.jpg

Intake air temp

35lta20.jpg

 

I *think* these are the calibrations I am after - seem to be the same as GM:

Degrees F - Degrees C - Ohms
-40º / -40 / 100,700
0º / -18 / 25,000
20º / -7 / 13,500
40º / 4 / 7,500
70º / 21 / 3,400
100º / 38 / 1,800
160º / 71 / 450
210º / 99 / 185

 

Looks like the air intake temp sensor might also be matching the GM data:

http://pe-ltd.com/assets/air_temp.pdf

Image result for gm air temp sensor calibration

 

Sounds like it might be easier to repin the ECT and IAT sensors to the AN Temp pins rather than the AN Volt pins that they currently are so I can use the 'off the shelf' calibrations rather than a cal table.

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It is not so much the temp sensor calibration that is unknown, it is the value of the internal pull-up resistor in the OEM ecu that is unknown.  You cant change sensors as this will upset at least the dash gauge etc.  Those graphs above are closer to the Bosch Std NTC curve than the GM/Delphi curve you are suggesting. 

Since you have a Fury with configurable temp pull-ups you can move the wires to temp inputs if you like and change the software pullup value (external) until they read close.  I suspect "3K3 external" will probably be the correct one.   

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6 hours ago, Adamw said:

It is not so much the temp sensor calibration that is unknown, it is the value of the internal pull-up resistor in the OEM ecu that is unknown.  You cant change sensors as this will upset at least the dash gauge etc.  Those graphs above are closer to the Bosch Std NTC curve than the GM/Delphi curve you are suggesting. 

Since you have a Fury with configurable temp pull-ups you can move the wires to temp inputs if you like and change the software pullup value (external) until they read close.  I suspect "3K3 external" will probably be the correct one.   

Ah yes, that makes sense, need to keep the same sensor as its correctly showing on the dash - my Xtreme is setup as a piggyback as some of the functions of the stock ECU can't be run via the Link ECU, I will move the pin over to one of the AN Temp pins whilst I am wiring in the wideband O2 and then configure it to have the Bosch Std NTC curve but with a different pullup value.

The good news is that I can tell that things like the cooling fans are working and coming on when the ECU notices a higher temperature as they clicked on when the engine was warming up (although reading hot on the Link) - will see if there is a way I can read off the temp on the gauge vs the Link - MIGHT be able to use an OBD2 reader to read off the stock ECU whilst the Link is running the other functions as the dash gauge is correct.

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I have now made the adjustments to the map to correct the error with me setting up the 5 bar MAP sensor, I have also repinned the connector to move AN Volt 3 and 4 to Temp 1 and Temp 2 for the coolant temp and air temp - using the Bosch curve and with the 3k3 option which seems to have done the trick.

I have also wired in my AEM X Gauge into the CAN H and CAN L ports on the connector - however I can't work out how to enable the ECU to show the AFRs, I have set the closed loop to Stoich wideband but can't see the wideband signal coming though for me to be able to do any autotuning - also the AFRs are slightly too lean at the moment so I guess I need to adjust the master fuel? The CAN signal from the AEM wideband is pinned to DI10 and DI9, however I can't seem to see an option for a wideband in the drop down? I am guessing I need to go into the CAN setup and select the CAN2 option - guessing the other port on the actual ECU is CAN1?

 

 

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you didn't have the either CAN channel setup to receive lambda from the AEM.  I followed the instructions in the Link help file for the AEM gauge and set it up on CAN2 to receive User Stream 2, as your config already has some stuff setup to transmit on CAN1.  Don't use closed loop fueling while you're trying to dial in the fuel map, you'll just end up chasing your tail.  Only enable closed loop once the fuel map is fully tuned.

1zzboomlangwith5barMAPrepinned_CAN2_Configured.pclr

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1 hour ago, JMP said:

you didn't have the either CAN channel setup to receive lambda from the AEM.  I followed the instructions in the Link help file for the AEM gauge and set it up on CAN2 to receive User Stream 2, as your config already has some stuff setup to transmit on CAN1.  Don't use closed loop fueling while you're trying to dial in the fuel map, you'll just end up chasing your tail.  Only enable closed loop once the fuel map is fully tuned.

1zzboomlangwith5barMAPrepinned_CAN2_Configured.pclr

Thank you so much, will give it a go tomorrow - just happy I managed to get the new pins crimped and installed without spending a fortune on a crimper! Slowly chipping away at the setup, learning quite a lot as I go. I did check the help file for wideband in general rather than the AEM setup specifically, have turned off the closed loop, shall I knock back the master fuel as well as now it's reading the correct part of the fuelling map with the correctly setup MAP sensor?

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I'd get it running and let it warm up, then adjust the master so the fueling is roughly right, then you can start the fuel map tuning.  The 1zz turbo I'm currently working on has Deatschwerks 60lb injectors on the stock returnless fuel system and it needed a master of around 8ms for the idle cell values to be around 30 for a petrol AFR of 14.4 in traditional fuel mode

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On 7/25/2018 at 5:39 AM, JMP said:

I'd get it running and let it warm up, then adjust the master so the fueling is roughly right, then you can start the fuel map tuning.  The 1zz turbo I'm currently working on has Deatschwerks 60lb injectors on the stock returnless fuel system and it needed a master of around 8ms for the idle cell values to be around 30 for a petrol AFR of 14.4 in traditional fuel mode

Perfect, thanks for your help on this, great to know what I should be aiming for in terms of the right ball park - I have found that on the stock injectors it seems to be ok at 19ms which is the same on the basemap I started with - it does say to start with the master fuel first then adjust the map.

I have just been out for a drive with it all connected up, had the closed loop off but I did have the autotune on for a bit to adjust some of the idle cells etc. It also seems that the speed sensor is incorrectly setup as it seems to pin at around 4000mph :D

I think the temp sensors look about right, was at around 85c on the driveway after the drive - although the fan was on, its odd as its set to come on at 95C - engine was fully up to temp during the run on the temp gauge so might have been the stock ECU overriding something!

Also need to knock the idle down slightly - looks to be set at 1k rpm, will drop it down to say 900 or 850 I think which is more normal (and I think part of the MOT requirements).

 

 

 

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I have also just noticed on the fueling table that the MGP only goes to -70 KPa whereas the logging is showing it dropping to -99 KPa (full vacuum) - am I able to add in additional rows into the fuel table? The basemap was originally for a turbo 1zz so I guess they didn't need that part of the map as they would have been on boost at that point?

 

Also seem to have a fair bit of logged knock which I am guessing the knock control would be pulling timing out of the cell etc comparing the ignition advance between this map and my PFC the timing is slightly more advanced than I have tuned the PFC to - max advance on this map is 35 degrees, whereas I had around 32-32 degrees of advance on the PFC with low knock. Will get the fueling sorted out first though - so far using the mixture map and adjusting the fuel table I am pretty happy with idle and cruise as well as light throttle, will keep driving it around a bit under different loads and keep checking the mixture map to see which cells need adjusting.

Is there a way to have the check engine light flash if the knock protection is being activated at all?

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looks like you'll need to do some configuration of the knock control setup, you've got cylinders reading way over your knock target at idle.

To add another row/column to any of the tuning tables, select the table and press X, then hit the green plus icon for the axis you want to add to and type in the value you want.

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11 hours ago, M1tch said:

I have also just noticed on the fueling table that the MGP only goes to -70 KPa whereas the logging is showing it dropping to -99 KPa (full vacuum) - am I able to add in additional rows into the fuel table? The basemap was originally for a turbo 1zz so I guess they didn't need that part of the map as they would have been on boost at that point?

Something is still wrong with your MAP sensor calibration if you are seeing -99Kpa under normal driving, that would be very unlikely with a car engine.  You may need a -80 or -85KPa row however.

 

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4 hours ago, Adamw said:

Something is still wrong with your MAP sensor calibration if you are seeing -99Kpa under normal driving, that would be very unlikely with a car engine.  You may need a -80 or -85KPa row however.

 

I will go in again and see what might be the issue, I did change the sensor to PSI in the setup rather than setting it to 517 KPa (as the sensor is in PSI for the calibration) - perhaps I am having an issue with it storing to the ECU, will plug my tablet in directly to the ECU and change it rather than tweaking a save file and using that. I will add in a few extra rows as well, will copy the row below up and perhaps adjust it by say 2% to run richer than needed, the mixture map can then pull out fueling if needed.

 

9 hours ago, JMP said:

looks like you'll need to do some configuration of the knock control setup, you've got cylinders reading way over your knock target at idle.

To add another row/column to any of the tuning tables, select the table and press X, then hit the green plus icon for the axis you want to add to and type in the value you want.

I will check to see how its setup - its currently on the OEM narrowband sensor and I think its set to 12khz in the Link, plan to swap to a Bosch doughnut knock sensor at some point though - guessing it might be another configuration issue on my side, I am just using the settings from a 1zz basemap - will look into which options I have for the knock sensor. I am tempted to check the maximum PFC ignition advance I had without any knock and use that as a maximum, think this map is probably a few degrees more advanced. I am also guessing that the knock control is incorrectly pulling timing everwhere which would give me the feeling of the car being slightly sluggish. I believe the OEM part number is 89615-12120 - trying to find out what I need to configure it as. Just using a knock calculator with regards to knock vs piston diameter, it is suggesting that the knock frequency will be at 7.3khz - so perhaps the knock sensor is set too high meaning that its picking up all sorts of other vibrations.

 

Still having the issue where the cooling fan is running at only around 80C whereas I believe its set to come on at 95C - also had the car idling at 1.5k rpm when fully warm as if its sensing there is extra load such as aircon or something running on the car.

Getting closer to getting the Link setup and working properly - I can also check the correct values via the OBD port, it would seem that the 3Ohm setting for the pullup resistor is about right - will run both side by side next time and compare (using the torque app and OBD2).

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3 hours ago, Adamw said:

The fan is on because the AC request is active - at least in the log a couple of posts up.

Hmm thanks for that - will check to see how its setup in the configuration then - the car doesn't have aircon so might need to chase down how its getting that signal. Looks like its been pinned to DI3, will look to simply switch that off in the ECU and it should hopefully then stop the car trying to idle so high.

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I have updated the file to add in some additional rows which have been interpolated etc when I added them, I have also switched off the AC request in DI3, I have also rechecked the MAP sensor settings and pressed the MAP calibration option as well.

I have also changed the knock sensor to 7Khz as this is closer to the correct knock value and it seems to be reading a slightly more sensible figure.

I have started adjusting the map using the auto tune for the idle cells, will look to log additional data soon so I can adjust the fueling via the mixture map but it seems to all be coming together - just need to work on the wheel speed sensor next I think.

 Log 2018-07-26 6;04;17 pm.llg

Idle auto fuel v1.pclr

 

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I'd avoid using the auto tune function if you're not using a dyno to progressively work through the map.  On the street it will just make a mess of your map and it looks like you're already getting some very large steps in the fuel map around idle.  Mixture map with decent filtering is a better solution for street tuning

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9 hours ago, JMP said:

I'd avoid using the auto tune function if you're not using a dyno to progressively work through the map.  On the street it will just make a mess of your map and it looks like you're already getting some very large steps in the fuel map around idle.  Mixture map with decent filtering is a better solution for street tuning

Thank you, yeah I noticed that the fueling wasn't that smooth, I just wanted to try the auto tune the idle cells a bit to make sure everything was working correctly - will look to use the mixture map for road tuning as it takes the average vs the number of samples which will be a better method.

Will drive around a bit this weekend now that I think the knock sensor is correctly setup, unfortunately its basically impossible to get to with the engine in but will be upgrading to a Bosch unit on the new engine.

Quick question about the mixture map and logging etc, will the mixture map get updated and logged without the laptop plugged in and is there a limit to the logging in terms of maximum number of samples? I only ask as I drove the car around a fair bit a couple of days ago on the previous setup including some full WOT pulls but didn't see any logging on the mixture map above 4k RPM. Also need to look at the rev limiter as I think its set to a hard stop at 7k rpm which is like hitting a brick wall!

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you need to check how you've got your ECU logging configured along with the mixture map configuration.  Also keep in mind you have the math function available for single cell tuning by pressing the M key when a cell in the fuel table is selected

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