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TurboTore

Trigger setup V88 Audi S2 tall block

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Hi.

Just installed a 2.5 tall block (diesel block) with a ABY head and 3B distributor from wich I get the camshaft signal.

Previous 2.2 litre engine was running the same distributor but the crankshaft sensor is now from the diesel block. Both crankshaft sensors have two wires so I assume they are reluctor sensors.

Problem is I can't get any RPM-signal or spark.

I have signal from both camshaft and crank sensors (goes green on Vi-Pec Engine management when cranking) and I haven't changed anything I belive should affect ignition setup. 

I'm not 100% sure about wiring on the crank shaft sensor - would I still read a signal if the two wires are switched?

Any ideas?

20180317_112456.jpg

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I do not know for sure - it's a Audi block but came from a Volvo. Since I get a reading in the computer I also assumed I would get a spark/rpm-signal but I may very well be wrong.

Any idea what setting I should use?

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9 minutes ago, neil brown said:

Teeth same on both crankshaft timing wheels 

The std 2.2 litre 3B engine gets the signal from the flywheel.

The 2.5 litre gets the signal from this plate on the crank shaft. See picture. 

Trigger settings are now set to  "Audi 135 teeth" - doesn't look correct but if change it then I loose the trigger #2 signal....!? This should be camshaft signal,why would that go missing? 

 

Any better options? See other pictures.

 

20180317_120615.png

5 minutes ago, TurboTore said:

The std 2.2 litre 3B engine gets the signal from the flywheel.

The 2.5 litre gets the signal from this plate on the crank shaft. See picture. 

Trigger settings are now set to  "Audi 135 teeth" - doesn't look correct but if change it then I loose the trigger #2 signal....!? This should be camshaft signal,why would that go missing? 

 

Any better options? See other pictures.

 

20180317_120615.png

 

1521286198265-2065520564.jpg

1521286257426-1045999683.jpg

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Hi.

 

Anyone got the complete trigger setup for an Audi S2 2.5 (diesel block) running  ViPec V88?

Crankshaft sensor is triggered by a 5 tooth "wheel" on the crankshaft and it seems I have a reluctor sensor.

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I have merged your two threads since they were both about the same subject.  You will only get RPM when the signal from both triggers match the settings that the ECU a has been set to accept.

how many teeth & what pattern in on the cam?  Are the 5 teeth on the crank evenly spaced?

How many cylinders?

Also the picture of the crank wheel you show appears to be designed for a Hall effect sensor, a reluctor wheel will usually have small teeth that protrude, not “wide slots”.  Are you sure the two wire sensor is actually from this engine?

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8 minutes ago, Adamw said:

I have merged your two threads since they were both about the same subject.  You will only get RPM when the signal from both triggers match the settings that the ECU a has been set to accept.

how many teeth & what pattern in on the cam?  Are the 5 teeth on the crank evenly spaced?

How many cylinders?

Also the picture of the crank wheel you show appears to be designed for a Hall effect sensor, a reluctor wheel will usually have small teeth that protrude, not “wide slots”.  Are you sure the two wire sensor is actually from this engine?

Hi,Adam. Thanks for replying. 

The camshaft position (hall) sensor is located in the distributor and gives one signal/round.

The 5 teeth are evenly spread and I also thinks this looks more like a Hall sensor system. I do get a signal when looking at the computer screen though  (goes green when cranking).

The engine is a VW/Audi 5 cyl 2.5 (diesel block) but Volvo also uses these engines and thats were mine come from. I'm not sure this is the correct sensor but it was given to me from the shop that did the machine work on the engine.

 

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3 hours ago, TurboTore said:

The engine is a VW/Audi 5 cyl 2.5 (diesel block) but Volvo also uses these engines and thats were mine come from. I'm not sure this is the correct sensor but it was given to me from the shop that did the machine work on the engine.

 

It almost definitely is not the correct sensor, that crankshaft will not give a usable waveform with a reluctor sensor.

Once you have replaced the crank sensor with the correct hall sensor then the set up will be as follows:

oq3gnOV.png

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21955_34539.jpg

22 hours ago, Adamw said:

It almost definitely is not the correct sensor, that crankshaft will not give a usable waveform with a reluctor sensor.

Once you have replaced the crank sensor with the correct hall sensor then the set up will be as follows:

oq3gnOV.png

Thank you. Been trying to find a good parts catalog but none of them are clear on what sensor is mounted. I find both types of sensors at the crank, included the one I have; VW 074 906 433. 

Seems there are different distances between the five pick up "holes". See picture.  

What confuses me is the ViPec seems to pick up a signal since the trigger status goes green when cranking.

Wanted to test the signal with "Trigger scope" but a message popped up,telling my V88 didn't support it - are there differences between the units? Got the latest firmware installed.

 

 

Edit: 

Seems the VW/Audi AEL-engine uses a reluctor sensor and the Volvo D5252T (wich is based on the same engine) uses a Hall sensor.... Possible to adjust the relictor sensors treshold/sensitivity in the ECU-settings?

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18 hours ago, TurboTore said:

Seems there are different distances between the five pick up "holes". See picture.  

Maybe just an optical illusion, they look evenly spaced to me.

 

18 hours ago, TurboTore said:

What confuses me is the ViPec seems to pick up a signal since the trigger status goes green when cranking.

The "trigger 1 signal" parameter only indicates there is voltage present on the trigger 1 pin, it does not give any indication that the waveform is correct or if it is seeing teeth etc.

 

18 hours ago, TurboTore said:

Wanted to test the signal with "Trigger scope" but a message popped up,telling my V88 didn't support it - are there differences between the units? Got the latest firmware installed.

The V88 never had a triggerscope.

 

18 hours ago, TurboTore said:

Seems the VW/Audi AEL-engine uses a reluctor sensor and the Volvo D5252T (wich is based on the same engine) uses a Hall sensor.... Possible to adjust the relictor sensors treshold/sensitivity in the ECU-settings?

The wheel you have will not work with a reluctor, it will need a hall effect sensor.  It may possibly run, but you will get huge timing scatter due to the trigger point (zero crossing) can be anywhere along that "long tooth".  

 

Proper Reluctor tooth size:

LN6MnG1.png

 

 

And this is what happens when you have a tooth that is too wide (note yours is much worse than this):

VzJSLAG.png

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On 17.3.2018 at 11:21 PM, Adamw said:
2 hours ago, Adamw said:

Maybe just an optical illusion, they look evenly spaced to me.

 

The "trigger 1 signal" parameter only indicates there is voltage present on the trigger 1 pin, it does not give any indication that the waveform is correct or if it is seeing teeth etc.

 

The V88 never had a triggerscope.

 

The wheel you have will not work with a reluctor, it will need a hall effect sensor.  It may possibly run, but you will get huge timing scatter due to the trigger point (zero crossing) can be anywhere along that "long tooth".  

 

Proper Reluctor tooth size:

LN6MnG1.png

 

 

And this is what happens when you have a tooth that is too wide (note yours is much worse than this):

VzJSLAG.png

 

 

Thanks,Adam.

Will a Hall-sensor give a good and steady trigger signal with this trigger wheel or do you recommend the 60-2 tooth solution at the rear of the crank shaft often used on I5-engines? My engine and gearbox etc are already in the car, ready to fire up, but if you recommend so I will remove whats needed  to install a 60-2 setup.

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More teeth will give you less drift during fast transient conditions but by the look of the photo above that engine has a fairly big heavy rotating mass so it is not going to be setting the world on fire in terms of acceleration rate, I wouldnt be too worried about getting more teeth on it.  It becomes more important on low inertia engines.

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