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Mitsubishi RVR - Idle hunts & No aircon?


crazynick505

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Hey guys,

I got the evo 3 CAS installed and started up the car to adjust base timing. Looking all good (Y)

Not sure what I have done, but now when trying to start the car, it hunts around all over the place and eventually stalls.
I also found last night (While it was all working) The aircon doesn't kick on? i'm wondering if the Evo pinout is slightly different to the RVR in this regard. i'll be doing some more research on that end of things to try and find out why that isn't happening.

Unsure if I've captured everything I need, but log file attached.

idle drops.llg

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The oscillation starts when the fan turns on.  Reduce the fan step to about half its present setting and Id also say the idle is probably a bit on the lean side.  Use the "Test (on)" function on the AC output to diagnose what is going on with that.

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23 hours ago, Adamw said:

The oscillation starts when the fan turns on.  Reduce the fan step to about half its present setting and Id also say the idle is probably a bit on the lean side.  Use the "Test (on)" function on the AC output to diagnose what is going on with that.

Thanks Adam.

I adjusted the Fan step down which looks to have helped out but still seems to be a little sketchy.
I also found I had to switch the Aux 2 - AC Clutch polarity to High to get that going 

Now just figuring out the idle adjustments for this which are confusing me a bit. I have attached a log that shows my warm start where the idle dips for a couple of seconds and then the result of me turning the aircon on. I can't seem to stop it from dropping revs withe the AC step adjustments? Not exactly sure what needs to be done there. I also attached both logs for the Crank on & AC as well as the new Engine fan idle

stalling on AC.llg

dropping on engine fan.llg

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It just needs to be tuned properly.  Before messing with idle control much your fuel and ignition tables must be well tuned.  Leave idle ignition control off initially.

First change to open loop mode.  Follow the openloop setup procedure below.  Once you have that working reasonable, then change to closed loop and go through that setup procedure.

X7xgeQo.png

 

1aV4Cpc.png

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Thanks Adam.

I got into the open loop idle control after doing some more logs and adjusting my fuel table towards the targets :) That now seems to be working fairly well at keeping at my 850rpm target. The engine fan still drops it a tad but recovers a second or 2 after which seems better.

The aircon has me stumped though. I have Digital Input 1 & 5 which are both A/C requests. By changing DI1 to "on Level" high, I was able to get the AC request to become active when using my climate control, which lowered the revs (Ignoring the A/C step table) and started pumping cold air. If I ALSO change DI5 to the same "on Level: High" the Clutch physically seems to disengage, the aircon looses it's cool, but the ECUs Clutch and A/C status all comes on which increases my revs using the A/C step table. And then If i actually turn my climate control completely off, the ECU statuses all stay on? I have no idea what is going on there haha. I tried multiple different combinations of leaving only 1 of the 2 digital inputs on and playing around with the Pullup resistor settings also. It seems to either give me:
- Low revs (No step adjustment) + cool A/C that I can turn on/off 
- Step adjusted Revs but no cool air that I can turn on/off
- Cool air, A/C stepped revs that I can't turn off, even if i turn the car off and leave the ignition on. :wacko:

Any ideas here? This bit has me stumped

I just have the clutch control turned off for now

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Open the runtimes screen and watch the digital inputs when you switch the AC switch on and off.  See if it is DI1 or DI5 that is connected to your switch.  Turn off whichever one doesnt respond to the switch status

svEtiuH.png.

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Alrighty, so with the climate control off:
- DI5 Ac Request: ACTIVE
- DI1 Ac Request: OFF

If I turn the fans on, everything stays where it is
If i turn the AC on, DI1 becomes active, DI5 stays always on
This is with everything set to On level: Low and Pullup: Off

If I turn DI5 Off and leave the DI1 AC request to control the AC, When I turn the AC on, the clutch value stays OFF and does not use the AC Idle step table (Resulting in lower revs but working AC)

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Oh my bad, I turned that off while I was troubleshooting :P

Here is the Map and log with Clutch control back on.
When I turn the AC on, the switch activates and it says it's engaging the clutch, but I don't get cold air. all the switches also stay on when I turn the AC back off.

I'm wondering if that's what the second AC request input is for?

RVRmap.pclr

Log 2018-08-7 2;09;21 pm.llg

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Ahh of course, didn't even think of looking at that :lol:
I had a quick play with that set to low and managed to get the AC on, with the clutch and the Idle up also working but couldn't get it to turn off.
I'll be more specific when my Laptop doesn't run out of charge and I'm back home but I'm pretty sure I tried most of the combinations available with On Levels and Pullup Resistor while also turning Digital Input 1 Off with 5 On and vice versa.

It seems like DI5 is the input that actually turns the Clutch on with the AC button on the Climate Control unit.

The installation manual does list DI5 as being the A/C switch and DI1 as the A/C "Request". Could that be something to do with this? Both Inputs were set to A/C Request out of the box and I didn't see an option to change it to a "Switch" (Assumed this might just be the same thing anyway)

Capture.PNG

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I dont know for sure how DI1 & 5 work, we have a bit of conflicting info here in our drawings and it is not a problem that I have come across before.  I cant find a good evo 3 wiring diagram to see how this circuit works.  It appears DI1 is the proper AC request from the switch.  It appears that DI5 is only used in some models and is some type of safety pressure switch.  I suspect the reason yours is not turning off is there is a ground offset or a bad connection somewhere which prevents the voltage on DI1 going low enough to allow the DI to turn off.  It needs to go below about 1.2V.  

You could try a voltmeter between pin 71 (gnd) and pin 45 (DI1) and record the voltage present there when it wont turn off.  A car in good condition I would expect to see 12V there when on and 0V when off.

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The climate control unit does have a "ECO" mode from factory, I wonder if that might even be related also? I believe the eco mode cycles the clutch less frequently than the regular mode.

The grounding could be a thing, so I'll give that a go tomorrow as well and report back ^_^

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  • 2 months later...

Car has been out of action for a while but I'm back to try and fix this up.

So voltage between pins 71 and 45 reads 0v when the car is off.
With the car on, but not running - 0.2v (should be all good?) All AC request statuses are off in PCLink here
With the car On+Running - 0.2-0.21v
Turning AC on results in all requests becoming active and volts between pins rises to the 12v - All good
When I turn the AC back off though - The voltage drops to 9.93v? and that's where the AC requests stay active while the Climate Control unit is actually off

Any ideas what's going on there? :wacko:

 

Pullup Resistor: Off - Results in 13.5v through the Pins
But still only drops to the 9.~v

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Can you disconnect that just that 1 wire from either the ECU or the AC control and re-run the test (pull the wire out of connector you can get to) - measure both the output from the AC control and if there is any voltage on the ECU pin? obviously things wont work but I want to see whether that 9v is coming from the ECU or from the AC control

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32 minutes ago, cj said:

Can you disconnect that just that 1 wire from either the ECU or the AC control and re-run the test (pull the wire out of connector you can get to) - measure both the output from the AC control and if there is any voltage on the ECU pin? obviously things wont work but I want to see whether that 9v is coming from the ECU or from the AC control


Alrighty, so I grabbed the connector in between the ECU and the climate control unit and unplugged this (Pictured below) It looks to have 2 of the same Green/Yellow wires that Pin 45 uses. Did a quick test on this and found it reads 13.5v~ through both of these pins coming from the climate control unit which switch to 0v when turning AC off (All with the car running) So this side looks good?
20181102_111047.thumb.jpg.86c9dc5fd53b962f4e7edc0df7044f77.jpg

Going to try the ECU side now

Ok, so it looks to be the ECU?

I turned the car on and left it running.
Unplugged this connector and turned the AC on
Climate control side shows 13.5v and switches to 0 when I turn it all off.
ECU side showed 0.2~v which I assume is all good.

Plugged it back in with the car running and AC on - Found the 13v went through to the ECU side of the plug - All good
Turned AC Off and saw the 9v again on both sides of the plug.
Unplugged this and tested the ECU side - Still 9v
Climate Control side is on 0

 

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1 hour ago, crazynick505 said:

Unplugged this and tested the ECU side - Still 9v

An input that is not connected to anything is called a "floating input", if there is no load connected to either "pull down" to zero volts or "pull up" to an elevated level then the pin will float at some indeterminate value.  So it seems whatever is connected to that DI1 pin just goes "open circuit" when turned off so the ecu cant determine if it is high or low.

Can you also check if the voltage level on pin 11 (DI5) changes with AC on/off?  I see we have a special pull down resistor connected to that pin so it may be that we need to move the wire from DI1 to DI5

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2 hours ago, Adamw said:

An input that is not connected to anything is called a "floating input", if there is no load connected to either "pull down" to zero volts or "pull up" to an elevated level then the pin will float at some indeterminate value.  So it seems whatever is connected to that DI1 pin just goes "open circuit" when turned off so the ecu cant determine if it is high or low.

Ahhh righto, thanks for explaining that Adam, makes sense :)

I just tested Pin 11 and no voltage at all with or without A/C - Stays at 0v
I noticed my Pin 11 wire is green, whereas the Evo3 pinout chart I was looking at mentioned a Green/White wire. Maybe the RVR does not use this?
Would this be an idea in that case to move Pin 45 to Pin 11 and use DI5 as my A/C Request? That way the Pull down resistor should hopefully bring the voltage down when I turn the climate control off?

I just noticed too
If I leave Digital Input 5 Off and just Use DI1 (Pullup: Off, On Level: High), The AC requests and clutch status etc all flick to On (and don't turn off) but I don't actually get cold air? 

If I leave DI1 as a GP Input instead of the AC Request, I do get cold air etc, it just obviously doesn't register as an AC request, so the car stalls under the load.

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1 hour ago, crazynick505 said:

Would this be an idea in that case to move Pin 45 to Pin 11 and use DI5 as my A/C Request?

That was what I was initially hinting at but I have just looked at our schematic again and noticed both DI1 and DI5 have the same pull-down resistor fitted so thats not going to achieve anything and now Im confused about how it works.  I think I need to find a factory wiring diagram.

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3 minutes ago, Adamw said:

That was what I was initially hinting at but I have just looked at our schematic again and noticed both DI1 and DI5 have the same pull-down resistor fitted so thats not going to achieve anything and now Im confused about how it works.  I think I need to find a factory wiring diagram.

Ahh damn :P

it seems to be impossible to find a wiring diagram for the N23W RVR let alone the evo 3 :(

I've been looking for a while haha. Maybe some of the DSM stuff could be worth a check.

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I did find this document:
http://indy.pp.ru/GDI/Docs/SPACE_RUNNER_WAGON_91_ENG/wiring/92MY_N10_N40/PHDE9214-A-B_SPACE-RUNNER_SPACE-WAGON_92_ELECTRICAL_WIRING.pdf

Although it looks to be for the earlier Space Runner wagons as the document was created in 1993 and doesn't list the N23W.
Page 168 Looks to be where some diagrams start for the RHD 4g63 Models. It looks to be for a N/A 4g63 SOHC engine though too but could be of some help? 

--------
Oh actually, what about this? 
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8mvxbuy0pajca2i/AADVTKTBc8hEH_6VaU7A1pZwa

There is a folder in there named "climate control" with some diagrams?

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 4 months later...

Swapped Pin 45 over to Pin 11, meaning the AC request from my climate control unit was now going in to DI5 rather than DI1.
Came back with with the same results as previous.

If I have DI5 set to "AC Request", the button triggers the AC request on and off - All sweet. Only thing is although the A2 Output for the AC Clutch turns on, I don't actually get cold air.

If I set DI5 to a "GP Input" rather than AC Request, I get cold air, but the AC Step to control my idle obviously doesn't kick in, so the car stalls.

I thought that idea might be a goer, but unfortunately it has the same effect as using DI1.

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