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odd fire V10 wasted spark


Guest |216|

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Is it possible to use the V88 with an odd fire V10: Bmw s85b50. The engine fires like this:

0,90,144,234,288,378,432,522,576,666.

The "waste cylinder" will be 18 degrees before/after tdc when it fires so that should okay??

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Is it possible to get the needed positions using the "Cam Angle Test" function?

If I first do it with falling edge and then with rising edge Shouldent I get the size/position then??

I am not to keen on disasembling the camshafts to try to measure them.

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To do the cam test you need to make the engine run. The test will then give values we can use to decide how you setup an existing BMW VVT trigger or if we need to add another.

For the engine to run it needs the cam signal. But this is only the case in 50% of starts. You can select Sync Mode = None.

Select BMW Dual Vanos as the VVT pattern.

Crank the engine if it will not start try again and again.

When running set the ignition offset so the ignition timing is correct.

Select Cam angle test and set the number of teeth to 8

Do all four tests (Inlet LH, Inlet RH, Exhaust LH, Exhaust RH)

Press the R key to view the runtime data. Select the VVT tab.

The Absolute VVT Positions will display the cam tooth positions in crank shaft degrees. Do not worry is some values repeat.

Either save the map during the tests or take screen shots of the runtime data and email it to me.

Ray.

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This is a great project! Once it's up and running will be the best proof of the power and potential ViPEC has for running sophisticated engine management. This is maybe one of the most complicated mass production engines by now.

Just out of curiousity as a BMW fan - What gearbox will you use and in what vehicle?

Also how would quad Vanos be connected? 8 outputs for 4 cams x 2 directions (advance & retard)? Or Both inlet and both exhaust cam will be connected in parallel?

As far i've seen on the internet only MoTEC and Pectel successfully implemented on this engine.

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Also how would quad Vanos be connected? 8 outputs for 4 cams x 2 directions (advance & retard)? Or Both inlet and both exhaust cam will be connected in parallel?

This is how the inputs and outputs on the V88 are wired.

Trigger 1 = Crank trigger signal

Trigger 2 = Exhaust cam LH

Digital 1 = Inlet cam LH

Digital 2 = Exhaust cam RH

Digital 3 = Inlet cam RH

Aux 1 = Inlet cam LH Retard

Aux 2 = Inlet cam LH Advance

Aux 3 = Inlet cam RH Retard

Aux 4 = Inlet cam RH Advance

Aux 5 = Exhaust cam LH Retard

Aux 6 = Exhaust cam LH Advance

Aux 7 = Exhaust cam RH Retard

Aux 8 = Exhaust cam RH Advance

The diodes in the VANOS solenoids must be removed.

Ray.

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  • 1 month later...

This is how the inputs and outputs on the V88 are wired.

Trigger 1 = Crank trigger signal

Trigger 2 = Exhaust cam LH

Digital 1 = Inlet cam LH

Digital 2 = Exhaust cam RH

Digital 3 = Inlet cam RH

Aux 1 = Inlet cam LH Retard

Aux 2 = Inlet cam LH Advance

Aux 3 = Inlet cam RH Retard

Aux 4 = Inlet cam RH Advance

Aux 5 = Exhaust cam LH Retard

Aux 6 = Exhaust cam LH Advance

Aux 7 = Exhaust cam RH Retard

Aux 8 = Exhaust cam RH Advance

The diodes in the VANOS solenoids must be removed.

Ray.

Hi Ray.

This engine is a bit different from the other Vanos engines, it has only 1 solenoid pr camshaft, they return mechanicly to their base position. So how should I wire this??

Eivind

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  • 2 months later...
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Guest |216|

Ray.

Finaly home for some testing for myself, like I said in the Email I sent you there is a trigger error on the LH exh cam, shows error on 2nd tooth. This is due to a error done by me under the logging.

But there is a bigger problem, the Odd-fire does not seem to work.. The engine always fire in the same place. I set the timing to 12degrees btdc over a large part of the timing table (in case the lock timing disabled the Odd-fire) and checked with the timing gun and the timing were rock stable. Shouldent this jump back and forth because of the 18degree odd timing on the engine?

on a positive note the Inlet vanos seems to work fine did a quick test and they moved around :). Did not test the exhaust because of the trigger error.

Eivind.

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The timing should be stable with the timing light. You must be using wasted spark. The two cylinders wired together will (should) have the same TDC angle. So, the timing light will flash once per crank revolution in the same place. To test the odd fire, you need to mark the TDC of each cylinder on the crank pulley. Then put the timing light on each HT lead and check it is flashing in the right place for each cylinder.

As for the exhaust cam, I have altered the trigger decoding pattern and will send some firmware hopefully later today.

Regards

Ashley Duncan

ViPEC Engineer

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Guest |216|

The problem is that the paired cylinders do not have the same TDC.

Coil 1 is wired to cylinder 1 which is 0TDC and coil 7 which is on top at 18ATDC and so on..

This quote contains the firing order/the thread start:

Is it possible to use the V88 with an odd fire V10: Bmw s85b50. The engine fires like this:

0,90,144,234,288,378,432,522,576,666.

The "waste cylinder" will be 18 degrees before/after tdc when it fires, will that be okay??

Eivind

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