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flipski

nissan vq35de

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Our 350Z base map has injector deadtimes and ignition dwell times for the stock injectors and coils.  I have notes that the injector flowrate on our car was 284cc @ 345Kpa, which was the base fuel pressure.  The fuel system type is returnless.

 

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Thank you very much! I will try to play with VE tuning this winter. I did run a track event last weekend with the G4+, I was able to tweak my fuel and throttle after a mostly street tune and my engine didn't go KABOOM. :D

One last thing, what about Short pulse adder ? they are all zeros...

 

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20 hours ago, flipski said:

One last thing, what about Short pulse adder ? they are all zeros...

Leave SPWA at zero, since you have such small injectors you will never operate with a short pulse width.

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Alright , So I finally decided to switch to modeled mode for my car and I have a few question regarding the predefined values in the basemaps.

1. Fuel injector are setup with 285cc at 43.5psi whereas Adam mentioned 284cc at 345kpa or 50psi ? But since the fuel main settings is set at 43.5psi instead of the 50psi that my car is supposed to run, I guess the pulse width is still correct even tho the fuel pressures are not the one the car is experiencing ?

2. VVT table. In the traditional mode, the VVT Inlet table has the rpm and TPS axis. By using this table as is, I would need to setup a 3d VE table? with rpm,mpg and tps. Since changing the intake cam angle should affect the VE of the cell the engine currently sit in. Or should I just swap the axis on the VVT to the MPG ? and deal with 3d VE tables after I get better at tuning.

3. what should be a good starting point for a VE cell ? I've noticed the traditional cell value don't match up after switching to Modeled equation ? I am running lean everywhere and since I am fuel tuning via datalog, I want to make sure I am not melting something before I hit the dyno and run a full VVT and ign timing tuning session.

Thank you

 

Edit: 1 more question. I've changed my intake manifold. It is a Kinetix velocity , made of stainless steel which is a bad heat conductor ( at least a lot lower than the aluminum plenum). Does the charge temp correction table populated from trial and errors ? or is there a specific formula to it ? Thanks

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58 minutes ago, flipski said:

Fuel injector are setup with 285cc at 43.5psi whereas Adam mentioned 284cc at 345kpa or 50psi ? But since the fuel main settings is set at 43.5psi instead of the 50psi that my car is supposed to run, I guess the pulse width is still correct even tho the fuel pressures are not the one the car is experiencing ?

You need to input the correct data otherwise the error will get baked into the VE table.  (VE table will need larger numbers if your injectors actually flow less than you tell the ecu they flow).

 

1 hour ago, flipski said:

2. VVT table. In the traditional mode, the VVT Inlet table has the rpm and TPS axis. By using this table as is, I would need to setup a 3d VE table? with rpm,mpg and tps. Since changing the intake cam angle should affect the VE of the cell the engine currently sit in. Or should I just swap the axis on the VVT to the MPG ? and deal with 3d VE tables after I get better at tuning.

It is generally easiest to use the same parameter on the axis of your VVT table as your fuel table.

 

1 hour ago, flipski said:

3. what should be a good starting point for a VE cell ? I've noticed the traditional cell value don't match up after switching to Modeled equation ? I am running lean everywhere and since I am fuel tuning via datalog, I want to make sure I am not melting something before I hit the dyno and run a full VVT and ign timing tuning session.

It will be completely different.  Typical VE numbers will be about 50-60% at idle increasing to 100-120% at peak torque.

 

1 hour ago, flipski said:

1 more question. I've changed my intake manifold. It is a Kinetix velocity , made of stainless steel which is a bad heat conductor ( at least a lot lower than the aluminum plenum). Does the charge temp correction table populated from trial and errors ? or is there a specific formula to it ? Thanks

Trial & error/testing.  On the dyno you can get a feel for it by varying air temp while keeping coolant temp relatively constant.  You can often vary air temp by directing air from behind the radiator into the intake.

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On 10/16/2018 at 6:42 AM, Adamw said:

Our 350Z base map has injector deadtimes and ignition dwell times for the stock injectors and coils. 

 

Hi Adam, sorry to up an old 3D. I have the N350+ on my 350Z. My car is supercharged (built engine) running @0.83bar and I've already the tune done.

I've seen the dwell time tune setting is between 3.9ms and 3.5ms @13/14v. Coils are stock ones.

Now I have a set of Okada plasma direct to install. Do you know if any modification on dwell time is to be done? Maybe increasing a little bit around 4ms flat @13/14v?

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I would only increase dwell if you were getting noticable misfires.  If it ran fine with the orignal lower dwell then you are only heating the coils more and shortening their life by giving it more dwell.

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On 7/9/2019 at 11:22 AM, Adamw said:

I would only increase dwell if you were getting noticable misfires.  If it ran fine with the orignal lower dwell then you are only heating the coils more and shortening their life by giving it more dwell.

Hi Adam thanks for reply and your advice. :)

No i don't have any misfire so far. at least nothing logged into the ecu. Only event I have is "rpm limit"....which was not happening before, or at least I didn't notice since ecu statistics was reporting a max engine speed above rpm limit of 6700rpm. Now seems to be cutting around 6400/6500rpm from logs. Anything I can do?

 

Attached my tune, would you be so kind to have a look? just for an advice in case of any. :)

 

 

 

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On 7/9/2019 at 8:07 AM, SC350Z said:

Hi Adam thanks for reply and your advice. :)

No i don't have any misfire so far. at least nothing logged into the ecu. Only event I have is "rpm limit"....which was not happening before, or at least I didn't notice since ecu statistics was reporting a max engine speed above rpm limit of 6700rpm. Now seems to be cutting around 6400/6500rpm from logs. Anything I can do?

 

Attached my tune, would you be so kind to have a look? just for an advice in case of any. :)

 

 

 

i dont see any tune.

 

On 7/9/2019 at 5:22 AM, Adamw said:

I would only increase dwell if you were getting noticable misfires.  If it ran fine with the orignal lower dwell then you are only heating the coils more and shortening their life by giving it more dwell.

thats right, you can even lower the dwell until you lose power on the dyno or have misfire (sometimes you are gonna see lost on power before hearing a misfire), and then rise the dwell until you stop gaining power, you want to have as lower dwell time as you can. 

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On 8/8/2019 at 11:12 PM, Rossobianconero said:

i dont see any tune.

Hi! Modified the RPM Limit table with Advanced Mode "ON", hereafter. RPM limit is 6700rpm.

image.thumb.png.3c3d7dd8600d4806273051affcd89793.png

 

About "Limit ignition Trim", shall I put a negative trim for timing?

Sometimes the ecu records a kind of "ping" of knock (on log there is spike quite close to the threshold) when reaching RPM limit.

 

 

On 8/8/2019 at 11:12 PM, Rossobianconero said:

thats right, you can even lower the dwell until you lose power on the dyno or have misfire (sometimes you are gonna see lost on power before hearing a misfire), and then rise the dwell until you stop gaining power, you want to have as lower dwell time as you can. 

This is the current setting:

image.png.1b74dd98a85ec2923054382ef87dd2b3.png

It works between 3.5ms to 4ms, but it never reach the upper limit. it stays around 3.6ms, then it goes down with rpm. Seems to be performing well like this. tried to increase it but was not gaining anything...also the sound at exhaust was not that good... it's better with the current setting. Dunno if it makes any sense ...

 

About MAP/BAP.... My ecu is already tuned, therefore I did not run any further MAP calibration.

The BAP reads around 97.6Kpa with ignition on and engine off. MAP reads 98Kpa (1.14V on AN9 analog input)

image.png.bb6ab2ac196c5f356b02617f2c6c23da.png

 

.....they are quite aligned, is that ok?

 

Thanks!

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21 hours ago, SC350Z said:

About "Limit ignition Trim", shall I put a negative trim for timing?

Sometimes the ecu records a kind of "ping" of knock (on log there is spike quite close to the threshold) when reaching RPM limit.

It would be very unlikely to get real knock at redline.  Typically the knock RPM lockout would be set a little lower than the RPM limit so it doesnt matter if the limiter causes some false knock.

 

21 hours ago, SC350Z said:

About MAP/BAP.... My ecu is already tuned, therefore I did not run any further MAP calibration.

The BAP reads around 97.6Kpa with ignition on and engine off. MAP reads 98Kpa (1.14V on AN9 analog input)

Yes that is fine.

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12 hours ago, Adamw said:

 

It would be very unlikely to get real knock at redline.  Typically the knock RPM lockout would be set a little lower than the RPM limit so it doesnt matter if the limiter causes some false knock.

 

Yes that is fine.

Hi Adamw, thanks for you reply!

here the knock table set-up. The rpm high lockout is set to 7000rpm, but my rpm table limit is 6700rpm. Shall I decrease the lockout to 6600rpm?

image.png.01149d3cf2c928eb590218d36e8c5bf9.png

 

This is the knock threshold setting by the way:

image.png.5a30c4fc7f282bcf8a6c3173b2816cca.png

 

May I ask your opinion on these settings of VVT and Ign.Timing? How do they look like? I run a supercharger which push 0,86bar max @6700rpm (no catalityc converters) with 264/264 cams.

image.thumb.png.7cccf86b8031e27b3213542d52d79ae9.png

 

image.thumb.png.26abdd589d0aa78622cff9d90b4170dd.png

 

 

About "spark duration" in Igniton Main Table, it is set to 1.5ms (by default) with "direct spark" mode. Since the default Dwell is 3ms but I run it around 3.6ms, shall i increase accordingly also the "spark duration" to for example 1.7ms? Or it doesn't really matter anyway being a "direct spark" system?

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11 hours ago, SC350Z said:

here the knock table set-up. The rpm high lockout is set to 7000rpm, but my rpm table limit is 6700rpm. Shall I decrease the lockout to 6600rpm?

 

The limiter will start to come in at 6700 minus the limit control range, so I would set the lockout to more like 6400RPM.

 

11 hours ago, SC350Z said:

May I ask your opinion on these settings of VVT and Ign.Timing? How do they look like? I run a supercharger which push 0,86bar max @6700rpm (no catalityc converters) with 264/264 cams.

I have little experience with these engines sorry.

 

11 hours ago, SC350Z said:

About "spark duration" in Igniton Main Table, it is set to 1.5ms (by default) with "direct spark" mode. Since the default Dwell is 3ms but I run it around 3.6ms, shall i increase accordingly also the "spark duration" to for example 1.7ms? Or it doesn't really matter anyway being a "direct spark" system?

Spark duration will have no effect with a direct spark system.  It really only comes into play on V8's or high RPM 6 cyl engines still using a distributor.  With a distributor you have a very limited time to charge 1 coil 6 or 8 times every cycle so the ecu needs to know the spark duration so that it can reduce dwell if it is going to overlap with the previous spark.

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the dyno is gonna be your best friend for vvt tuning, cause is not na you can just see your lambda to check that your VE is increasing or decreasing (more or less power). cause you are FI sometimes you can see higher boost but doesnt necessarily mean you are making more power (at least in turbo engines)

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On 8/26/2019 at 7:06 PM, Rossobianconero said:

the dyno is gonna be your best friend for vvt tuning, cause is not na you can just see your lambda to check that your VE is increasing or decreasing (more or less power). cause you are FI sometimes you can see higher boost but doesnt necessarily mean you are making more power (at least in turbo engines)

Yeah clear. In case I will try to increase the intake cam advance like 4 -6 degree (where it is 0 @ 60-80MAP), is there any issue with valve to piston clearance?

image.png.dc3c83a9c651d36b45225527b8f11028.png

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Hi @Adamw, one question about VVT inlet target. I did some  pulls and logged the results. I found that the Inlet LH / RH cams positions are aligned between them BUT are NOT aligned with the VVT inlet target .....   I don't have cam positon errors whatsoever...

If i do a time plot of LH/RH positioning compared to the target...it looks like  the curves of LH/RH positions vs target are shifted and even when overlapped the target is not matched...is that even possible?

Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks.

 

Log 2019-10-11 7;39;27 pm.zip

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I've run the "Cam Angle Test"......

in the table DI 1 - VVT Cam position, the Offset value is set to the default VQ35 value, 158.5° ATDC.

image.png

 

the value reading from the test (lowest) is 160.6°.

image.jpeg

 

Did it also forTrigger 2 VVT referring to RH inlet... which is set to 42.6° but from cam angle test the value should be 43.6°.

image.jpeg.583cca6a48fec7e4ab9dd024e809aec6.jpeg

 

image.thumb.jpeg.987d6ca5ffa3ffec759468e3e649cb33.jpeg

 

Question is, should I change-update both the Offsets values of Trigger 2 VVT and VVT Digital input?? Or just the Trigger 2 VVT?

Is any other change needed on other triggers a/o Ignition timing?

Thanks for your help guys... :)

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Yes, you should enter the correct offsets (both on DI and trig 2) for the VVT position to track correctly.  

It will not affect the trigger or ignition timing, all you are doing is telling the ECU where the reference tooth on the cam is in relation to TDC on the crank.

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11 hours ago, Adamw said:

Yes, you should enter the correct offsets (both on DI and trig 2) for the VVT position to track correctly.  

It will not affect the trigger or ignition timing, all you are doing is telling the ECU where the reference tooth on the cam is in relation to TDC on the crank.

 

Hi @Adamw , thank you very much as usual really appreciate it. :)

Just a clarification about the readings of the cam angle test. I've revved the engine above the lockout and then left the foot off the pedal, so the revs fell below the lockout providing those values. is that fine? or should I keep the revs above rpm lockout and get those readings? Which are higher by the way....

 

Another thing, the trigger calibration I have is different form the default settings for VQ35, hereafter:

Default is -2 and 10, current mine is -1 and 15. Is this fine? Why is it different like this?

image.png.33749ca34e1e87eae0c7a2ba01903819.png

 

 

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23 hours ago, SC350Z said:

Just a clarification about the readings of the cam angle test. I've revved the engine above the lockout and then left the foot off the pedal, so the revs fell below the lockout providing those values. is that fine? or should I keep the revs above rpm lockout and get those readings? Which are higher by the way....

They shouldnt change much at all, apart from a bit of slop in the timing chain.  How much change are you seeing?

 

23 hours ago, SC350Z said:

Default is -2 and 10, current mine is -1 and 15. Is this fine? Why is it different like this?

 

Trigger offset will vary on every engine, this is due to stacked manufacturing tolerances on all the mechanical components, things like crank shaft keyway, pin indexing, pulley marks, front cover pointer, trigger wheel indexing, etc.

The referenece timing can be any number you like, this is just the value that you want to aim for when you are checking the timing with a timing light.

 

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On 10/14/2019 at 10:03 AM, Adamw said:

They shouldnt change much at all, apart from a bit of slop in the timing chain.  How much change are you seeing?

 

 

Trigger offset will vary on every engine, this is due to stacked manufacturing tolerances on all the mechanical components, things like crank shaft keyway, pin indexing, pulley marks, front cover pointer, trigger wheel indexing, etc.

The referenece timing can be any number you like, this is just the value that you want to aim for when you are checking the timing with a timing light.

 

Hi @Adamw , sorry for being late.

The difference i see during cam angle test is the following:

Inlet RH ==> below lockout (1000rpm) is 43.7; above lockout (2000/2200rpm) is 45.6

Inlet LH ==> below lockout (1000rpm) is 160.5; above lockout (2000/2200rpm) is 161.4

 

I did some logs with the inlets settings above, attached. What do you think?

I see the slope of the inlets always shifted and not following correctly the target....regardless (it seems) from the value I input....but anyhow if I increase the inlets degrees values, it get closer to the higher VVT target (38°), otherwise the inlets stay always 1/1.5 degree below..... is there anything wrong or what? any idea? :wacko:

 

 

Logs.zip

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