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takayuki

K6A Trigger setting

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I am using HC 96 +. The engine uses K6A crank angle sensor for Suzuki's F6A. The child's crank angle sensor uses trigger 3-2-2. Although it cranked with a trigger scope, it seems to be opposite phase. Positive phase image can not be captured. Is there someone who is familiar with the car model setting for this waveform? Thank you.

scope_1.jpg

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Crank signal is the incorrect polarity and you will need to swap the wires at the sensor to change this.

Do you have a CAN sensor at all?

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In the next firmware release there is a new triggermode called "K6A Non-VVT", this engine has a cam sensor only (no crank sensor) and appears to have a similar pattern to yours above.  Can you confirm if your signal above is from the camshaft wheel or crankshaft? 

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Ok, attached below is a firmware file containing firmware 5.6.5.3430, copy this to your harddrive firmware folder found here:  C:\Link G4\PCLink G4+\Firmware.  Open up PC Link then do a firmware update on your ecu as normal and choose 5.6.5.3430.

After that you will have a new trigger mode "Suzuki K6A No-VVT".  Try selecting this (change trigger 1 to reluctor), leave trigger 2 set to the defaults.  Let me know it that works.  

Firmware 5.6.5.3430.LFM

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To Adamw

Thank you for providing firmware.

When I tried it, I was able to check the rotation speed, the ignition and the output of the injector

 

But, It did not lead to engine starting. I felt RPM was high at cranking.

 

I am grateful that the situation has improved.

 

rpm.jpg

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My car is Suzuki cappuccino. The engine is F6A but it is the crank angle sensor of K6A

 

This K6A crank angle sensor has 4-3-3 trigger.We have changed to trigger 3-2-2.

 

Since HKS Fcon Vpro was operating properly with trigger 3-2-2, we were looking for the possibility of working on Link G4 + as well.

 

Perhaps, this area may be a problem.

Thank you.

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There is a little bit of noise near the zero-crossing on your triggerscope that could potentially cause a "phantom tooth" to be seen by the ecu.  Can you try changing the trigger 1 arming threshold table to match my example below.

Also I suggest trying this:

  1. First save a copy of your current tune file (.pclr).
  2. Go to >ECU controls>restore to factory settings.  Perform the restore.
  3. After the restore is complete, load your tune file back in. 
  4. Test cranking again, to see if triggering looks ok now.

From your triggerscope above it looks like it should work ok.  K6A is normally a hall sensor but the ECU doesnt care - as long as the teeth are in the same location it should work.  K6A expected pattern below.

NwQiNRG.png

TaUR0mQ.png

 

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Unfortunately we could not start the engine. Set the threshold value to 1.0 V with the electromagnetic sensor, do not you?

 

I returned the tune file after restore to factory settings as specified.

 

Since RPM has decreased to about 1000, I think whether improvement is done.

Does the trigger scope we are presenting have reversed waveforms?

 

Was this waveform as it was last time, was it OK?

Thank you

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Looking at this waveform is strange.
It is similar to the waveform of K6A, but did you use the Distributor or the processed trigger wheel?
Usually the exclusive trigger pattern is
It does not work unless the angle of the trigger matches.
Suzuki K6A No-VV T is for the trigger pattern attached to the cam gear.
It is not for Distributor.
There is no problem if the angles are perfectly matched

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Unfortunately the triggerscope is cut short and doesnt show a full 720 degrees.  Can you attach your .pclr file also.  

Comparing your earlier triggerscope to our expected pattern there is some mismatch but I think it should be close enough to work and give correct RPM.

3jllxaq.png

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Ok, there is lots of electrical noise in this latest triggerscope, some of these spikes are above the arming threshold so will be seen by the ecu as extra teeth.

Ideally you need to find the source of this noise (bad wiring?).  But can you first try adjusting the arming threshold up to 1.5V, see if that improves the RPM reading.

SpGhNm6.png 

 

ZTK910c.png

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Because ECU was dropped during cranking, we changed to AC adapter. The noise probably seems to have changed from ECU power supply to AC adapter.
I tried changing the threshold to 1.5 V or 2 V, but the RPM seems to be over 1000.

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23 hours ago, takayuki said:

RPM still seems to be about 1,200.

And when the ECU shows 1200RPM, what do you feel is the real RPM?  

The triggerscope looks quite usable now.  Can you attach a photo of the trigger wheel.

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Sorry for the slow reply, I wanted to do some more testing with an engine simulator to confirm that this trigger mode works correctly since it is fairly new and has only been tested on one other engine that I know of.  I can confirm it seems to work properly for me.  Going off your last trigger scope your signal looks good and I dont see any reason why it shouldnt work.  If I calculate RPM manually from your triggerscope it appears your engine is cranking at about 400RPM.

Can you try this:

  1. Set the triggermode to something completely different - say mitsubishi Evo 1-6.
  2. Store.  Turn ECU off & on again.
  3. Change trig mode back to K6A and reluctor.  Store, then try cranking.

I have seen cases in the past where after changing trigger settings they dont initialise properly, changing it to something different then back again may fix it.

Can you also confirm your teeth positions are close to my angles below:

FN8xkXg.jpg

 

 

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Thank you for your busy schedule.
Although I attempted the setting you instructed, unfortunately it did not change and it was about RPM 1200.
And the narrower tooth angle was 15 degrees and the wider one was 25 degrees.
Thank you.

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