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lysaer

r33 gtr cylinder 1 spark plug fouling

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Hi all

Recently my cylinder 1 spark plug has been fouling badly and becoming carbonised

I have done a compression test and compression is perfect and equal across all cylinders

I took a driving log and was wondering if there was anything in the log that might indicated why it is fouling up, the log is pretty big so zipped it with 7zip

Thanks in advance all

Log 2018-10-18 7;41;11 pm.7z

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I cant see anything specific to cylinder 1 in that log. Is it only this 1 cylinder that is causing dirty spark plugs? Are you sure your injectors are all delivering the same quantity of fuel? 1 could be partially blocked or leaking and if the other cylinder are all a bit rich/lean the opposite way, the total engine lambda will look correct.

As far as general things you might want to look at from that log:

you dont have any lambda readings, that makes it really hard to guess where you are rich/lean.

You have a speed input on DI3 of Left Front wheel, but in speed sources you have selected Left Rear wheel, so as far as the ECU is concerned you are at 0kph all the time which means anything speed dependent isnt going to work correctly  - idle speed lockouts, traction control, gear detection, probably a few others.

You have your second fuel pump set up to only turn on at 70+% inj DC, and it looks like you only hit 70% at about 7500rpm under full throttle - basically that second pump almost never gets used. Not sure if this is on purpose or not. - see at 51:22 for the only time this seems to happen. Looking at your fuel pressure logs, its starting to drop off by 5-6 kpa above 50% inj DC so maybe drop the cutover to 50%

your VVT target tracking is pretty slow, and seems happy to stop moving when you are within 5-6% of target. This is going to make it tricky to get consistent AFR between runs as your VE will be slightly different. What sort of engine are you actually running? I'm not really a nissan guy but I thought variable VVT was only on the R34 RB25's but your title says its an R33 GTR.

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One problem I see is closed loop lambda is enabled but there is no Lambda sensor assigned so the CLL is adding 10% fuel all the time.  10% may not sound like a lot but you if it was originally tuned to say .9Lambda at idle then with +10% you are at 0.8Lambda which would be in the territory where plugs could foul.  I suggest tuning the CLL off for now.

 

1 hour ago, cj said:

your VVT target tracking is pretty slow, and seems happy to stop moving when you are within 5-6% of target. This is going to make it tricky to get consistent AFR between runs as your VE will be slightly different. What sort of engine are you actually running? I'm not really a nissan guy but I thought variable VVT was only on the R34 RB25's but your title says its an R33 GTR.

HKS made an aftermarket VVT kit for the RB26 "HKS Vcam", from the setup it looks like it is running one of these.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Adamw said:

One problem I see is closed loop lambda is enabled but there is no Lambda sensor assigned so the CLL is adding 10% fuel all the time.  10% may not sound like a lot but you if it was originally tuned to say .9Lambda at idle then with +10% you are at 0.8Lambda which would be in the territory where plugs could foul.  I suggest tuning the CLL off for now.

 

HKS made an aftermarket VVT kit for the RB26 "HKS Vcam", from the setup it looks like it is running one of these.

 

 

There is a lambda on the CAN connection ECU CONTROLS --> CAN SETUP it is on CAN 1, I did not do the map on the car originally so where would I disable the CLL ?

4 hours ago, cj said:

I cant see anything specific to cylinder 1 in that log. Is it only this 1 cylinder that is causing dirty spark plugs? Are you sure your injectors are all delivering the same quantity of fuel? 1 could be partially blocked or leaking and if the other cylinder are all a bit rich/lean the opposite way, the total engine lambda will look correct.

As far as general things you might want to look at from that log:

you dont have any lambda readings, that makes it really hard to guess where you are rich/lean.

You have a speed input on DI3 of Left Front wheel, but in speed sources you have selected Left Rear wheel, so as far as the ECU is concerned you are at 0kph all the time which means anything speed dependent isnt going to work correctly  - idle speed lockouts, traction control, gear detection, probably a few others.

You have your second fuel pump set up to only turn on at 70+% inj DC, and it looks like you only hit 70% at about 7500rpm under full throttle - basically that second pump almost never gets used. Not sure if this is on purpose or not. - see at 51:22 for the only time this seems to happen. Looking at your fuel pressure logs, its starting to drop off by 5-6 kpa above 50% inj DC so maybe drop the cutover to 50%

your VVT target tracking is pretty slow, and seems happy to stop moving when you are within 5-6% of target. This is going to make it tricky to get consistent AFR between runs as your VE will be slightly different. What sort of engine are you actually running? I'm not really a nissan guy but I thought variable VVT was only on the R34 RB25's but your title says its an R33 GTR.

It is only cylinder 1, I had the injectors taken out and flow tested and they are all running perfectly, so am sure it isn't a sticky injector

there is a lambda sensor installed on the CAN, if I go to ECU CONTROLS --> CAN SETUP it is on CAN 1

I dropped the IN DC% on fuel pump 2 to 50% and it shows the 50% figure in red, is that an issue ? Fairly new to settings

As @Adamw stated I have the HKS V-Cam in the vehicle, mainly it is a HKS 2.8, V-Cam Step 2 head, twin 2530-kai turbos and a lot of other supporting mods

I guess it could be a valve seal has gone and some oil is getting through, the build is fairly new with all new components and only covered about 8000 miles though, so wouldn't think it was that

fuel_pump.jpg

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Did you run through the can lambda setup here

https://linkecu.com/documentation/canlambda.pdf

I can see the channel set up, but cant see the bit about assigning it to lambda1 because the ECU is not connected. your lambda1 values in the log are all 0 so it looks like something is missing. On second look at it, I can see the lambda1 error state bouncing around a bit. Have you double checked the wiring to the lambda sensor? If it is talking to the ECU, its not sending anything useful. While this is clearly a bit of a problem, its not likely to affect 1 cylinder more than the others.

That injDC value turning red is normal. It just shows that its a changed value vs what it was. remember to save the changed value to your pc by pressing f2 (or file>save / save as) AND saving it to the ECU by pressing f4 (aka store)

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Sorry, I should have looked closer, I missed the CAN Lambda.  It is showing error code 16, which is usually caused by poor power supply.  You will need to get that looked at, make sure it gets its power from a source that is capable of at least 8A (and wires are big enough), and sometimes they can be upset if connected to the same source as something that generates a lot of inductive noise such as a idle valve or VVT solenoid.

You should update firmware to 5.6.5, in that we added an improvement so that the CLL is disabled anytime the CAN Lambda is in error so that will prevent this issue from happening in the future.

 

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On 10/29/2018 at 2:00 AM, Adamw said:

Sorry, I should have looked closer, I missed the CAN Lambda.  It is showing error code 16, which is usually caused by poor power supply.  You will need to get that looked at, make sure it gets its power from a source that is capable of at least 8A (and wires are big enough), and sometimes they can be upset if connected to the same source as something that generates a lot of inductive noise such as a idle valve or VVT solenoid.

You should update firmware to 5.6.5, in that we added an improvement so that the CLL is disabled anytime the CAN Lambda is in error so that will prevent this issue from happening in the future.

 

I will check the ignition power it is connected to to make sure there are no issues and also update the firmware on the device, is the firmware just downloaded from the site ?

I did notice the Lambda gauge on the software was not displaying anything, is that because of the error or do I need to enable to something else so it shows AFR ?

On 10/28/2018 at 7:42 PM, cj said:

Did you run through the can lambda setup here

https://linkecu.com/documentation/canlambda.pdf

I can see the channel set up, but cant see the bit about assigning it to lambda1 because the ECU is not connected. your lambda1 values in the log are all 0 so it looks like something is missing. On second look at it, I can see the lambda1 error state bouncing around a bit. Have you double checked the wiring to the lambda sensor? If it is talking to the ECU, its not sending anything useful. While this is clearly a bit of a problem, its not likely to affect 1 cylinder more than the others.

That injDC value turning red is normal. It just shows that its a changed value vs what it was. remember to save the changed value to your pc by pressing f2 (or file>save / save as) AND saving it to the ECU by pressing f4 (aka store)

I did not fit the ECU or sensor but I would assume the mapper did when the car was originally setup

 

I pulled the plug again today and there are small signs of oil on it, since the compression seems fine I am guessing it might be a valve seal that has gone, I think next step will be a leakdown test to see if I can hear any air coming out the head

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2 hours ago, lysaer said:

and also update the firmware on the device, is the firmware just downloaded from the site ?

Yes download the latest PC Link from our website, that contains the latest firmware, then do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u54915wuLYc

 

2 hours ago, lysaer said:

I did notice the Lambda gauge on the software was not displaying anything, is that because of the error or do I need to enable to something else so it shows AFR ?

Yes, Lambda/AFR will show 0 if the sensor is in error condition.

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On 10/30/2018 at 8:09 AM, Adamw said:

Yes download the latest PC Link from our website, that contains the latest firmware, then do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u54915wuLYc

 

Yes, Lambda/AFR will show 0 if the sensor is in error condition.

I have updated the firmware and I checked the voltage on the CAN Lambda it is showing 14v when engine is on

Going to check wiring properly tomorrow to make sure cables are large enough and see what they are connected to in case of interference as I did not install it

I have a direct to battery ignition relay for running equipment in the front of the vehicle, like LCD dash, cameras, telemetrics etc etc

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stinger-SGP38-80-AMP-Battery-Isolator/dp/B001HC6UJ0

If I connect it directly to that for testing purposes would that suffice, or should I just connect directly to battery live and bypass ignition then run a LOG and test ?

Also as a side note, is there EGT data being displayed in the log as I am unsure if the EGT sensor is connected

Thanks for all the help so far

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1 hour ago, lysaer said:

If I connect it directly to that for testing purposes would that suffice, or should I just connect directly to battery live and bypass ignition then run a LOG and test ?

I would go direct to battery as a test, if that works try the isolator.

 

1 hour ago, lysaer said:

Also as a side note, is there EGT data being displayed in the log as I am unsure if the EGT sensor is connected

There is no EGT set up in your map.

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On 11/16/2018 at 7:16 AM, Adamw said:

I would go direct to battery as a test, if that works try the isolator.

 

There is no EGT set up in your map.

I ran through the CAN setup and when I do find devices the only one showing up is the CAN lambda, would that be correct or should there be other sensors, I'm guessing EGT? 

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1 hour ago, lysaer said:

I ran through the CAN setup and when I do find devices the only one showing up is the CAN lambda, would that be correct or should there be other sensors, I'm guessing EGT? 

The “find devices” tab is only used for Link CAN Lambda’s, it will no show other devices.

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3 hours ago, Adamw said:

The “find devices” tab is only used for Link CAN Lambda’s, it will no show other devices.

Great, noted 

 

Could a fouled lambda sensor give the same error I am receiving or is it specifically related to CAN lambda power? 

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10 hours ago, lysaer said:

Could a fouled lambda sensor give the same error I am receiving or is it specifically related to CAN lambda power? 

Its possible but error 16 is usually power supply related.

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4 hours ago, Adamw said:

Its possible but error 16 is usually power supply related.

So connected directly to power and this is what the runtime values shows for CAN

The lambda is still not showing a value 

PSX_20181118_133801.jpg

restarted ecu and now

 

 

PSX_20181118_134255.jpg

 

Ok, fitted a brand new CAN Lambda, kept the old sensor and connected it up, disabled the gaugeart dash on CAN 2 and now am Green, but still not showing an AFR reading in the software in the lambda box, added log as well

Log 2018-11-18 2;16;50 pm.llg

20181118_140451.jpg

20181118_140457.jpg

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I want to make sure that I keep the good current coming directly from the battery, if I wire in a relay to work with ignition on the 14 gauge wire I have used directly from the battery will that be ok, or will it cause interference again or power up issues ?

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So I boxed it all up and put it back together and now the error is back :/

I wonder if there is some EMI, I have ordered some copper sleeving and will pull it apart again tomorrow and see if the error goes away

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Your CAN is working fine so dont bother messing around with that.  You need to look at the ECU Status tab of the run times.  You still have error 16 showing in your log, so it is most likely still a power supply problem.

Did you go directly to the battery like I suggested?  Did you disconnect the existing power wires?

 

On 11/19/2018 at 7:36 AM, lysaer said:

I want to make sure that I keep the good current coming directly from the battery, if I wire in a relay to work with ignition on the 14 gauge wire I have used directly from the battery will that be ok, or will it cause interference again or power up issues ?

Did you do this?  This would be the ideal set up.

 

44 minutes ago, lysaer said:

I wonder if there is some EMI, I have ordered some copper sleeving and will pull it apart again tomorrow and see if the error goes away

It is not EMI, the CAN is talking fine in your log.  It is the power circuit that is not happy.

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36 minutes ago, Adamw said:

Your CAN is working fine so dont bother messing around with that.  You need to look at the ECU Status tab of the run times.  You still have error 16 showing in your log, so it is most likely still a power supply problem.

Did you go directly to the battery like I suggested?  Did you disconnect the existing power wires?

 

Did you do this?  This would be the ideal set up.

 

It is not EMI, the CAN is talking fine in your log.  It is the power circuit that is not happy.

Yup went direct to battery and fitted the relay, before putting it all back tested it and all blocks were green on CAN 1, started engine still all green, switched off engine, exited software, reloaded software, switched it all back on and still all green 

 

Put it all back together and now same red errors 

 

Really appreciate how helpful you guys are

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On 11/19/2018 at 10:01 PM, Adamw said:

What are the lambda runtimes showing here:

cRwdhDL.png

Was unable to check yesterday as was raining all day so couldn't pull apart

All blocks are now green in the CAN tab and in the ECU status tab it shows CALIBRATION but showing error 16 and 33 under "lambda 1 error", have a log but I don't have enough space to upload it so have linked to my Google drive

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1N-qAqRcEqtmGs05HKuQLXJz276YgCEHa

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Ok, so you still have error 16 present.  So I understand you now have power via a relay direct from the battery?  Have you removed the original wires?  Is there anything odd in this car like the battery moved to the boot or anything?

Do you have another separate battery or a jumper pack or something that you could try powering the CAN lambda from as a test?

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16 minutes ago, Adamw said:

Ok, so you still have error 16 present.  So I understand you now have power via a relay direct from the battery?  Have you removed the original wires?  Is there anything odd in this car like the battery moved to the boot or anything?

Do you have another separate battery or a jumper pack or something that you could try powering the CAN lambda from as a test?

Yeah power is now direct from battery via relay and I replaced the wires going to the CAN Lambda with 14awg

Nothing unusual, battery is in original location

I have one of these jump starters which I could connect the wires to and run it in the car to test 

NOCO Genius Boost Plus GB40 1000 Amp 12V UltraSafe Lithium Jump Starter https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B015TKUPIC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_w2l-BbPEYM8GH

 

 

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