FunJam Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 Hi Everyone! I'm building a -09 Hayabusa for drag racing. I'm planning to use turbo and E85 for fuel. I got few possibilities to use as a ECU, one would be extreme black and would have couple of questions.. Can I get different boostmap for every gear? Can I get g-force sensor for datalogger? One direction would be enough.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hill Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 Yes, you can have a boost target for each gear, implemented with either open loop or closed loop. and yes, an accelerometer can be installed. There are plenty of single or multi axis ones available and they can be powered from the +5 volt supply available on all Link ECUs and input to an analog voltage. This 3 axis one can be powered from the +5V :- https://www.adafruit.com/product/163 HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 I suggest you download the software and have a play around in the Xtreme base map. Note you cant have a completely different "boost map" for each gear but we do have a "Boost Gear Wastegate trim table", this allows you to add or remove boost (commanded from the main table) based on what gear it is in. If you want completely separate boost tables then you can have a maximum of three and they could be switched via gear position or speed or whatever else you like. Accelerometers would be set up as a GP Input and use a cal table to convert it into some meaningful numbers. We dont have "g" units as a selection but you could use "g/s" or something like that instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunJam Posted October 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 Thanks!! I did download software, but didn't find this trim table yet. It sounds to be good enough. There are plenty of ECUs and so many features to consider and English is not my first language, so it sometimes feels little bit like running in swamp... So I thought it is better to just ask. Fuel Tech seems to be pretty easy to install, since it has most features in one device, but I am not used to go the easy way if result is better with banging head to the wall for a while.. :-) But still I would be happy to keep electrics as simple as possible. Every wire from devise to another is something that can break, and for every device I need to find a place to install. This accelometer seems fine, 3 axis is enough if directions fit, one for acceleration, one for braking and one? For knowing how hard I land after wheelie? ;-) Main thing anyway is to find out, if I have a wheel spin. Along the way I have learnt to appreciate this kind of forums, it is big deal for me. Jani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 2 hours ago, FunJam said: but didn't find this trim table yet. Example below. If using openloop boost control this table just adds or removes duty cycle from the main wastegate table, in closed loop mode you also have another table to change boost target based on gear. Note also most of the 3D table axes are flexible so for instance you might just want to put gear position on one axis of the main wastegate table, then you only need to mess around on one table. 2nd option: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg W Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 Jani I have Adams first example setup on my Suzuki's, with ecu calculated gear Wastegate duty trim works good, but my ecu calculated gear is a problem if i change ratios and then have to recalibrate , about to switch to GPS voltage input for gear determination If you do use the Link and need a base setup i am happy to share Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunJam Posted October 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 Thanks! If I Want to measure exhaust temperatures with 4 thermocouples, I assume I need to use amplifier connected to CAN? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 That would be the best way as it avoids using up the AN volt inputs. (which would still need an amplifier) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hill Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 https://shopbhp.com/products/8-channel-egt-to-can-module-works-perfect-with-link-ecu These work great over CAN with link ECUs, with the advantage that you can run 4 EGT in the primaries and a post turbo EGT for turbo protection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunJam Posted November 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2018 OK... So Extreme black has 2 CAN ports and I need to use one for EGT and one for lamda and one for dash? Or do I need to forget the dash? Is there anything else someone would normally need to connect to CAN in this type of system? --> ok, noticed that etc. dash 2 pro can be connected to serial port. Ignition outputs still are the same even I would use amplifier, I assume. I plan to use stock coils and amlifier like arc- 2 etc. (which , I beliieve runs 2 coils at the same time.. Havent got time to figure out that yet, but had some memory) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted November 1, 2018 Report Share Posted November 1, 2018 You can connect up to 8 CAN Lambdas and 5 other CAN devices all to the same CAN port - the only limitation is they must all talk at the same bit rate. All of the devices mentioned above have user configurable bit rates so you are fine to connect them all to the same CAN bus. 1 hour ago, FunJam said: Ignition outputs still are the same even I would use amplifier, Our ECU will not be able to drive the coils directly, you will need some type of ignitor/amplifier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg W Posted November 1, 2018 Report Share Posted November 1, 2018 ARC2 works fine, but consider CBR coils as they are CDI type coils , but they are taller and dont fit every application I have LS2 truck type smart coils on the busa , there bigger and need coil leeds , also just fitted the R35 GTR coils on a H2 , and they look promising for the Suzukis too I prefer these to the ACR2 to do away with the extra amplifier box and wiring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunJam Posted November 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2018 I have been told Busa coils would be CDI coils... How can I be sure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg W Posted November 3, 2018 Report Share Posted November 3, 2018 There an induction coil , only CDI coil Suzuki made was on the 98-99 gsxr 750 , induction coil will work , but my preference is a CDI coil if i can fit one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 12 hours ago, Greg W said: but my preference is a CDI coil if i can fit one My understanding was a CDI coil had lower inductance so you would get a weaker/shorter spark than a normal inductive coil if you are running inductive ignition. Or are you talking about installing a complete CDI system to drive the CDI coils also? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg W Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 Yes Adam CDI coil for CDI system Dyna ARC2 mentioned above is a dual capacitor CDI that runs as waste spark on a 4 cyl , and with 2 ARC's you can run sequential , Similar to the AEM CDI but found them more reliable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunJam Posted November 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 Are these R35 GTR coils smart coils or CDI coils? Black Extreme can run smart coils directly, without amplifier, think? In rallycross they are using some VAG coils pretty commonly here in Europe, but I haven't got yet time to find out, which ones. Seem to work pretty well, since most have over 700 hp from relatively small engines, I think. My plan is to use E85 as a fuel, relatively low compression ratio and high boost pressure. Hopefully would see over 600 rwhp someday, even it is still a long road.. :-) There should be room enough, as we plan to put plenum / inter-cooler behind the cylinder block, so there would be some room above the cylinder head. M&W has got also 4 channel CDI (pro-14) that costs about same as 2 arc's, but would mean little less wiring.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunJam Posted November 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 https://www.finjector.com/eng/sytytyspuola_paateasteella_audi_2_0_3_2_l_pitka_punaine_bosch_0986221052-p-525402-42 VAG coils would be something like this I think.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg W Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 GTR smart coils on the Ksawasaki H2 I have VAG here,get you a pic comparing them and GTR and Toyota smart coils with original Toyota has been trimmed, diameter of the shaft is too big for the plug recess GTR has various length lower adaptors available, there just a spring inside the insulator and snap off and on as needed LS2 coils also shown, they cold start methanol on that bike with no trouble Oh i did remove the external shield on the VAG for fit too , remembered after looking at your link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg W Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 Thanks for starting this conversation , since the talk about CAN EGT i have brought a Microtech 4 ch CAN EGT and will remove my analog 4 ch to free up some inputs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 7 hours ago, FunJam said: In rallycross they are using some VAG coils pretty commonly here in Europe, but I haven't got yet time to find out, which ones. I think they are commonly referred to as "R8 coils", there's a couple of revisions and I believe the later one is preferable, I dont have any part numbers though. We dont really see them down here in NZ but they are a popular choice in Europe. 7 hours ago, Greg W said: Thanks for starting this conversation , since the talk about CAN EGT i have brought a Microtech 4 ch CAN EGT and will remove my analog 4 ch to free up some inputs Attached below is a CAN stream file to aid setup. First setup the CAN mode tab like my pic below, then go to the Streams tab, highlight stream1 and click on "load stream", then browse for this .lcs file attached here. Microtech EGT Use ID24.lcs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg W Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 Brilliant Thanks Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Cutelli Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 On 10/31/2018 at 9:16 AM, FunJam said: Hi Everyone! I'm building a -09 Hayabusa for drag racing. I'm planning to use turbo and E85 for fuel. I got few possibilities to use as a ECU, one would be extreme black and would have couple of questions.. Can I get different boostmap for every gear? Can I get g-force sensor for datalogger? One direction would be enough.. I would recommend looking at the thunder too if budget permits. Would negate the need for external G-meters and provide better wheel speed resolution and built in wideband. Second choice would be Fury. On 10/31/2018 at 9:16 AM, FunJam said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunJam Posted November 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 Actually I have been thinking Thunder too, last time yesterday. :-D Difference in prices here are around 1500€ Black / 1700€ Fury / 2100 € Thunder, so if it eliminates need of Lamda CAN controller (400€ ) and would need to buy only sensor (100€ ,which I have, but still want to buy new one for this project) , difference ain't too big. If only Thunder could read 4 thermocouples instead of 2, it would surely be a winner.. But maby... And thanks for the pictures about the coils. GTR coils really seems to fit nicely and would surely be a good choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunJam Posted November 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 Have been reading owners manual and playing with software for a couple of days now. Most of the questions I have found answers now and keep reading. More I read, more questions come out.. :-) Came in my mind, that if I would use Android/Tablet via Bluetooth, is it possible to use two tablets at same time? So one would be as dash and with one my mechanic could watch temperatures, pressures etc. in starting line. Off course connection for mechanics tab would be lost at some point of the track. More likely this would be just nice add/show off, but maybe it could be useful at some point.. Dash could also connected with wire if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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