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Hayabusa turbo

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The only option our ecu's have for connecting via bluetooth would be using a bluetooth OBD2 dongle.  Im not sure if there are some that are capable of pairing with two devices.  OBD2 can also be quite slow.

A better option maybe something like RaceCapture Track:  https://www.autosportlabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/RaceCapture_Track-MK2-product-brief.pdf

This is a device that connects to the ECU via CAN bus and then to your phone/tablet via wifi.  The connected phone or tablet is used as your dash.  At the same time if your phone/tablet has an internet connection (sim card), it also streams ECU and performance data out to a cloud-based website.  Your mechanic in the pits can then use his phone/tablet/laptop in the pits and view all of that data.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VmeLCKnfYQ

 

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13 hours ago, FunJam said:

Have been reading owners manual and playing with software for a couple of days now. Most of the questions I have found answers now and keep reading. More I read, more questions come out.. :-)

Came in my mind, that if I would use Android/Tablet via Bluetooth, is it possible to use two tablets at same time? So one would be as dash and with one my mechanic could watch temperatures, pressures etc. in starting line. Off course connection for mechanics tab would be lost at some point of the track. More likely this would be just nice add/show off, but maybe it could be useful at some point.. Dash could also connected with wire if possible. 

I use USB over wifi for controlling my ECU remotely (I plan to install the Link ECU in the boot next to the engine so no long USB wires).  I bought one of these from amazon which work great and are cheap :-

https://www.gl-inet.com/products/gl-mt300n-v2/

 

The hardware then needs reflashing with the virtual USB software:-

https://www.virtualhere.com/hardware

Powered with a 12V micro USB adapter, this gives you USB over WiFi, which should be significantly longer range than bluetooth.  The Virtual firmware is available on a few different platforms so it may be possible to extend the range even further.

 

HTH,

  Richard.

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So, if I'm comparing Fury and Thunder, meaningful differences would be:

-Thermocouples -> I need 4 so probably need to get EGT to can anyway

-2 Lamdas -> I think need only one anyway

- Sensor for g-force -> comes possibly with the dash or with the RaceCapture-device if I decide to get one.   

 

Is there any reason why I should choose Thunder over Fury?  It has got more inputs and outputs, but Fury seems to have enough. 

Do I get more accurate info with Thunders own accelorometer? Do I get more precise ... something?

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On 11/10/2018 at 6:34 AM, FunJam said:

Is there any reason why I should choose Thunder over Fury?  It has got more inputs and outputs, but Fury seems to have enough. 

Do I get more accurate info with Thunders own accelorometer? Do I get more precise ... something?

Yeah, I suspect the Thunder is probably overkill for what you are doing.  It is also quite a large box to fit on a bike.  

 

On 11/10/2018 at 6:34 AM, FunJam said:

Sensor for g-force -> comes possibly with the dash or with the RaceCapture-device if I decide to get one

Or you can use a cheap analog accelerometer.  The nice thing about the internal accelerometer in the Thunder is it has adjustable filtering (to filter out "vibration noise"), whereas if you connected one to an analog input you wouldn't have that - but you can use a resistor-capacitor filter to damp it down a little if needed.  As you say though it is also possible your dash or logger may have that functionality.

The only other feature that may be relevant on the Thunder is there are 4 digital inputs that are much higher speed than the Fury.  The Fury DI's are limited to about 500Hz, the Thunder HS DI's about 6500Hz.  This would probably only be relevant if you had a wheel speed sensor with a high tooth count.

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And cheap analog accelorometer I can more easily assembly with some rubber bands etc. to  damp some vibration. 

I think hall sensors would be the right ones to measure wheel speed. Don't know yet how we are going to build that, but I think we make tooth count to fit with sensor. 

One idea came in my mind thinking this.. It might be possible to measure lock-up actions with hall sensor. If lock-up "claws" would work as tooths, you could see RPMs where first set is out. And when second is coming along, it will douple the "tooths" (in 2-stage lock-up). There speed is fast, but its only informative, so I don't know if it makes big difference or if its worth to choose thunder over fury with this cause. I really don't know if it is even possible to use hall sensor like this. Just crossed my mind.. :-)

 

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On 10/31/2018 at 10:11 PM, Greg W said:

Jani 

I have Adams first example setup on my Suzuki's, with ecu calculated gear 

Wastegate duty trim works good, but my ecu calculated gear is a problem if i change ratios and then have to recalibrate , about to switch to GPS voltage input for gear determination

If you do use the Link and need a base setup i am happy to share 

Greg, I was having a conversation about this  with my team and  heard that GPS voltage in Hayabusa is not stable. In earlier project they had AIM boost controller and had troubles with this and they finally ended up to use push button from shifter to calculate gear and clutch lever to remain it to gear 1.  

I did bought those 2200 cc injectors, there is bank 1 , bank 2 and one spare bank, all flowtested in the shop to match to each other as near as possible. 

Turbo is Holset with billet turbine and we have 8, 12 and 14 exhaust housings, we are going to start from 12. 

20190221_180455.jpg

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Jani  was that with a gen 1 or  gen 2 Busa , the gen 2 have a better GPS unit  that uses an internal brass contact like an ignition switch rather than the gen 1  spring loaded pins on the shift drum that gave a less reliable voltage 
and also were they using the original ecu ? which i think did not always work well with other devises reading the voltage , 

I only finished wiring in my GPS on the weekend with the pull up resistor AdamW mentioned on another thread  and the voltages seem stable so far  although i am about to add an analog dash wire to the GPS AN out and that may have an effect   

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It was Gen 2 with original ECU. 

It is good, that it is working for you. Just thought to mention if it had save some trouble to check it first. 

Can you point out/link  the topic, where this pull up resistor is mentioned? 

 

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Link didn't transfer quite as i expected, but click on the heading 

Use Adams diagram,  i will reply with my voltages later in the day, Adams are very close 

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  I have set the tolerance at 0.30v that may change when i get to the salt next week 

gear

1   1.82v

N   0.30v 

2    2.40

3    3.10

4    3.74

5    4.38

6    4.70 

 

AdamW if i use a tolerance greater than the span between gears does that  cause problems, ? say if i set it to .5v  and the 5-6 variance is .32v  ? 

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Well, it was a year and a half since I started this topic and there has been progress... Slowly , but anyway.. :-)

I have taken lots of web courses from HP acatemy, have been building tanks with my welderguy, machining , changed frame and front, bought tons of parts, build the engine.. And now it is one big mess.. :-)

But we are gettiing somewhere and after couple of months I should be racing with the bike. Yeiiii!

Still got lots of questions.. I'll send a diaghram soon

 

20200223_210559.jpg

88184743_515398009167193_8269696508945760256_n.thumb.jpg.c4826f2e7e81d1aa3ab2ce121481034d.jpg

So here is a drawing I made for the bike. Comments? Is powering lamda going to be problem thet way? 

I write some more details later.

 

 

Jani /FunJam Racing

 

 

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Link Fury. 

Wiring is done mostly with Link wiring looms, made the job so much easier for the first timer.

After pic I have done most wiring for the power suply. 

Link  4bar MAP sensor , boost solenoid, lamda

OEM ECT sensor, GPS

Cordona quickshifter, KMS TPS, industrial swing height sensor, fuel- and oil pressure sensors, 4x exhaust temperature via CAN

20200301_131206.jpg

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The wiring diagram looks mostly ok to me.  Lambda will be fine connected there.  One thing Im not sure is needed - the "Fuel & Ign relay", why have you got that triggered by Aux 4?  Normally one side of the relay coil would just be grounded and the otherside switched by the ign switch.

Also, the "main switch" looks like it has a lot of load going through it - not sure if this is an isolator or ign switch, is it capable of 40A or something?

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Main switch is hand operated switch, that should take it easily. Used in case of fire, for example, to connect all the electric power off.

Reason for using aux 4 is, that in FIM-E rules there is :

"All gasoline or methanol burning motorcycles must be equipped with an electrical contact which disconnects all electricity to the engine (and nitrous oxide system, if used) and including electric fuel pumps if the rider should lose control of the motorcycle." (=wrist strap)

 

So there is wrist strap, run/stop-button and emergency-button that are doing basically same thing, but with little differently. Off course this could be done with relays, but I thought this would simplify wiring and do it with the ECU.

Emergency button is something we just do to every bike in our team. I am lying very low on my bike. If I lose the control of the bike and will not be able to let go of the gas or lift it, there if a button in top of your front fork, that you can try to hit with your forehead and it will kill the bike for the moment. Sounds little bit funny, but that is just something that we have agreed to do. We have to remember, that we are trying to build +500 hp bike with no wheelie bars that will weight less than 250 kg. Team is not very experienced at this level and bike (including slider clutch) is all new, so there are lots of things that can go wrong amazingly fast. If am not very over worried of anything usually, but now I have to admit, that now I have certain respect for the bike and I am thinking  little bit of safety also.. :-)

There are several sensor ground wires and +5v wires in Link wiring loom Most of them are used for critical sensors, but there is one or two left and I still have lots of sensors that I need to get powered (Rear swing height, gear position sensor, puel pressure.. Etc.)

So, is there any limit for sensors and is there rule, that some types of sensors should not connect to same +5v power or sensor ground. Mostly Hall, pressure, and travel sensors. 

 

Edit: Hall doesn't need sensor ground, but +8v, shared with cam sensor. And sensor ground is already divided in the loom, so it should be OK to divide again later in loom. 

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Ok, sounds ok I think.

 

14 hours ago, FunJam said:

There are several sensor ground wires and +5v wires in Link wiring loom Most of them are used for critical sensors, but there is one or two left and I still have lots of sensors that I need to get powered (Rear swing height, gear position sensor, puel pressure.. Etc.)

So, is there any limit for sensors and is there rule, that some types of sensors should not connect to same +5v power or sensor ground. Mostly Hall, pressure, and travel sensors. 

Very unlikely to ever get near the 500ma limit.  Most sensors are about 5ma each.  All 5V and sensor ground pins and connected to the same power supply inside so if any of those 5V pins is shorted or overloaded it will mean all sensors are lost - even if they are connected to a separate 5V pin.  You take care of this situation using the analog input error settings so that the defaults are fail safes.

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Cam sensor is a hall. 

Shielded wire in Link loom is together with knock sensor wire. 

does it supply +5 or +8 V ?  I think it is ok to use with OEM Hayabusa hall-sensor.. 

Is "signal ground " in smart coils same as "sensor ground"

20200304_070318.jpg

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There should be 2 shielded cables on the A loom - these are for crank and cam, then also 2 shielded cables on the B loom, these are for knock sensors.

Inside these shielded cables there are only two wires, signal and ground, for a hall effect sensor you have to run a separate wire for the power - usually the 8V wire.

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Thas is right, I did even draw it in wiring diagram.. :-)  

I shouldn't write here before morning coffee.. 

Thanks anyway. Again. ;-)

 

Jani

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I have a VAG smart coils with 4 connections. +12V, ground and signal is clear, but should I use sensor ground in fourth or just connect it to power side ground? 

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Still I haven't been able  to find answer for this. Or actually have find two different answers.. 

Mostly common way seems that both grounds are connected to power side ground (cylinderhead) , 

Coil_short_VAG.JPG?fbclid=IwAR1k-k1Jx1Gf

but some think it is better to use singnal ground in pin 1. 

Coils are VAG Short ones (0986221023 ), there are two different types of connectors used in VAG coils.

https://www.finjector.com/eng/bosch_ignition_coil_vag_1_2_1_6_with_power_stage-p-32668-42?fbclid=IwAR15DcyU-kxq8QGR6-hITwbtwEaG8_osqeaYdP0RY4YY9cJLQGs4d3tUubg

 

 

 

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Sensor ground for pin 2 is the most correct, but either way works fine with the VAG coils, they dont seem to be sensitive on the trigger threshold. 

With some coils (IGN1A is one example) the trigger threshold is quite low, around 0.5V, so if you ground these coils trigger circuit to the engine instead of sensor ground and there is a small ground offset between ecu and engine then you can get sparks occurring at unexpected random times.

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