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Miguel Silva

2µF Suppressor, what type can it be or must be?

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Hi to all,

I'm looking for the 2µF Suppressor to wire close to the coils but I'm not certain of what kind can or should be!

Can it be like this?

https://pt.rs-online.com/web/p/condensadores-de-aluminio/1085440/

Or can it be like this?

https://pt.rs-online.com/web/p/condensadores-de-pelicula-de-polipropileno/3887664/

 

Ho, and to put some perspective as to why I'm looking for a suppressor, I'm having some misfires on my Z32 has I increase boost above 5 000RPMs, and the logged RPMs are a bit unstable unless I apply max filter (even with max filter I get repeating RPMs on log, ex: ... 5 000, 5 050, 5 050, 5 050, 5 200...), also the voltage on the trigger scope drops from 4.1v at idle to 2.3v at 5 000RPM also visible on the log some times teeth aren't registering well but it doesn't report trigger errors.

I've re-gaped spark plugs (no difference).

I've replaced the stock coils with new Audi R8 more powerful coils (no difference).

I've increased and decreased dwell time (no difference).

 

On the most extreme case, if I insist on accelerator pedal to the floor when its misfiring it completely shuts down ignition and whets the spark plugs for a 4 to 10 seconds the car is all rough and and doesn't ignite well, after a few moments it's ok again. It's a scary sensation as it feels as the engine blew up!

 

Any help and suggestions! Very much appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Trigger Scope Log 2017-11-8 7;40;24 pm.llg

Trigger Scope Log 2018-10-3 7;27;28 pm.llg

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This is the type of thing that would normally be used:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/292427582383

You definitely have trigger errors but it is hard to tell if it is due to interference or some other problem.  Im not sure how much we can rely on the built-in triggerscope to show good detail of the Nissan 360 slot trigger at high RPM - I think it is possibly a bit beyond its capabilities.

I think the trigger voltage dropping away at higher RPM is due to the filter.   Trigger 1 filter should be set to 1 for high tooth count wheels - can you confirm you have it set to 1?  If not can you do another 5000RPM triggerscope but with trig 1 filter set at 1.

Did you try switching on low resolution mode?

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5 hours ago, Adamw said:

This is the type of thing that would normally be used:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/292427582383
 - Ok, thank you.

You definitely have trigger errors but it is hard to tell if it is due to interference or some other problem.  Im not sure how much we can rely on the built-in triggerscope to show good detail of the Nissan 360 slot trigger at high RPM - I think it is possibly a bit beyond its capabilities.
 - 8 000 RPM / 60 s * 360 slots / 2 revolution * 10 samples = 240 000 Hz(0.24Mhz), do you think a 10 Mhz and 100MS/s like the PicoScope 2000 series is good enough for the job? or should it have other specs?

I think the trigger voltage dropping away at higher RPM is due to the filter.   Trigger 1 filter should be set to 1 for high tooth count wheels - can you confirm you have it set to 1?  If not can you do another 5000RPM triggerscope but with trig 1 filter set at 1.
 - I have both (trig 1 and 2) set to filter 1, If I chose any other the car doesn't even start. Filtering is only being applied to the RPM (level 4), I have some logs of different RPM filtering but no trigger scope (just free revving no gear/load)

Did you try switching on low resolution mode?
- I Haven't as the manual says "Select Low Res Mode = ON for engines with aggressive cam shaft profiles or lightweight flywheels" and I have neither. I will give it a try!

 

Attached: ECU config file and RPM different filter logs

 

Nissan 300ZX G4+ Thunder New IGN Cal 9.pclr

RPM Filter3.llg

RPM Filter2.llg

RPM Filter1.llg

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First of. The stock CAS sucks and especially with most aftermarket ecu`s. At LEAST get an aftermarket cas disk in it.

The fuel map needs ALOT of tuning.

The numbers in the fuelmap looks weird. The numbers in the idle zone are alot higher than expected. Are you sure your injector data is good? Are yo sure you calibrated your mapsensor?

You are at full throttle at 5700 rpm but are barely making 0.1 bar of positive manifoldpressure. Is it missfiring that badly?

Do you have access to a propper scope (other than the one built in)?

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There is not many obvious signs of trigger error in these last 3 logs so it quite possibly is some sort of ignition interference at higher loads.  Are the coils grounded to the cylinder head?  Resistor spark plugs?  Is there anything unusual about the grounding in this car such as battery moved to the boot or something?

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19 hours ago, Steve said:

First of. The stock CAS sucks and especially with most aftermarket ecu`s. At LEAST get an aftermarket cas disk in it.
I wold but, will it get rid of the belt slop/slap, if I have it?
Will it get rid of the backlash between the CAS and the Cam connection, if I have it?
And I'm also assuming the G4+ cpu is more than up to the task! If not someone from LINK please tell me its not.

The fuel map needs ALOT of tuning.
It's a Work in progress, but it's not that far off. Attached ECU log.

Are you sure your injector data is good? 
Yes. Attached injector sheet.

Are yo sure you calibrated your mapsensor?
Yes. Attached ECU Log

You are at full throttle at 5700 rpm but are barely making 0.1 bar of positive manifoldpressure. Is it missfiring that badly?
You must be talking of the (RPM Filter3.llg, RPM Filter2.llg, RPM Filter1.llg) logs, I explained on the previews post that "(just free revving no gear/load)" and that's why no boost, otherwise 1.1 bar  by 3800 RPM.

Do you have access to a propper scope (other than the one built in)?
Next step!

 

Injectores 300ZX +-637cc.pdf

ECU Log 2018-09-24 9;18;56 pm.llg

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8 hours ago, Adamw said:

There is not many obvious signs of trigger error in these last 3 logs so it quite possibly is some sort of ignition interference at higher loads. 

Are the coils grounded to the cylinder head?
Yes.

Resistor spark plugs?
Yes. Resistor Value: 5K Ohm
This - NGK Iridium Spark Plugs, Heat Range #7, 2667 BKR7EIX - Nissan 300ZX Z32
Or this - Nissan OEM NGK Spark Plug, Colder PFR6B-11B - Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo Z32
Both have the same problem.

Is there anything unusual about the grounding in this car such as battery moved to the boot or something?
No stock location.

 

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You wont get rid of the problems related to having the cas at the cam pr say. But a crank fitted trigger will do so that problem doesnt matter anymore. Your cas would only be used as a cam synk and all crankposition duties (the important part of this) would be by the crank trigger.

Link will do this fine, yes.

What injectors are theese?

Did you calibrate timing with a timinglight?

Screenshot shows why i think it needs tuning still :)

Screenshot 2018-11-07 21.48.29.png

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17 hours ago, Steve said:

What injectors are theese?
JECS side feed 650cc

Did you calibrate timing with a timinglight?
Yes.

Screenshot shows why i think it needs tuning still :)
There are some weird places like the 3000RPM line from -60 to 40kpa it has a very high VE and I can't explain why but the VE has to be like this for the lambda to +- match the target, and some others places the VE is weird also. :unsure: 
I'll try and solve them later:rolleyes: work in progress.
But on boost it's tracking along with 0.01 lambda error margin and a max of 0.03 λ.

image.png.15da7278a09bd25e5ee9dbb2105855a6.png

 

 

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What pressure is the injector deadtimetable for? Sheet doesnt specify as far as i can see.

Somewhere you got something wrong. As mentioned a VE in the 90`s at idle is not normal. around 50-60 is more to expect.

Whats your fuel setup all the way from your tank and back to it again? Actually, tell me about all your engine mods and the stuff around it.

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17 hours ago, Steve said:

What pressure is the injector deadtimetable for? Sheet doesnt specify as far as i can see.
It doesn't, but I assumed it was 3 bar as the dynamic flow is made at 3 bar and the normal rating for this injector is at 3 bar.

Somewhere you got something wrong. As mentioned a VE in the 90`s at idle is not normal. around 50-60 is more to expect.
It's possible! I'm not discarding any constructive inputs.
But how can I relate it to the misfiring? I need some kind of plausible/conclusive explanation!
The car ran for 2 years on this injectors and a NISTUNE ECU (stock ECU with a real time programmable chip) only difference was it had a manual boost controller and it naturally dropped from 1.3 bar at 4000 RPM to 0.8 bar at 7000 RPM (I wasn't able to control boost very accurately) so never had the chance to deal with this problem as no high boost at high RPMs.

Then it went with a ADAPTRONIC, with this one I could control the boost to the RPM limit and the symptoms started to appear, at the time the ECU had only 4 injector and 4 ignition outputs and it was running wasted spark I thought it was due to lack of dwell time available at higher RPMs. And I wanted more inputs and outputs to monitor and control more stuff.

Then changed to the link G4+ thunder, and that's were I am now.

Whats your fuel setup all the way from your tank and back to it again? Actually, tell me about all your engine mods and the stuff around it.
There aren't many:
Fuel - every thing is stock apart from injectors and fuel rail (CZP High Performance Fuel Rails)
EGR delete
AIV delete
MAF delete
Two New 3 port MAC solenoids to control boost
Dual 2.5 inch exhaust line with hi flow cats and XFORCE VAREX mufflers.
AVS Side Mount Intercoolers, 2" ARC Spec Core
And that's it.

 

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I see.

With that fuelrail i guess you deleted the fueldamper and have a different pressure regulator?

I may have missed it but is there a log without triggerfilters applied? IE with the trigger at its stock config.

You started to have theese symptoms with the Adaptronic?

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Another thing. I see you have the fuelmodel set with FP sensor activated. You also have just a 2D deadtimetable. Now. With FP sensor in the fuel equation you NEED a 3D table with GOOD deadtime data in it. Or else the ECU will NOT do what you would expect it to do. When you have a 2D table like you do now and you use 300kpa as your base pressure when the differential pressure raises the ecu will pull out fuel to compensate for the raised pressure. The thing is that with the single pressure deadtimes you got it will actually pull too much fuel and you go lean. So thats at least a big part of your weird fuelmap. You have to compensate for the ecu pulling too much fuel because of...
 

...the next thing. I see in one of your logs that at around 3000 rpm your differential fuelpressure is about 340 KPA. Not 300. So at idle i bet its even more. I suspect you got your fuelpump running at full tilt all the time? Not the greatest of ideas. What you got there is whats called regulator/returnline overrun. Thats when the pump pumps more fuel than the regulator or returnlines can bypass and yout pressure rises without control. You can also see in that log that differential pressure gradually drops as rpm and load rises. This is because the engine eats away the excess fuel and pressure drops down to what the regulator is really set to.

Edit: As for the missfires (anyway you could shoot a video of it happening?) i think it is your CAS that is the problem.

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15 hours ago, Steve said:

I see.

With that fuelrail i guess you deleted the fueldamper and have a different pressure regulator?
No they are both stock and still the stock ones.

I may have missed it but is there a log without triggerfilters applied? IE with the trigger at its stock config.
I don't have any trigger filters on any log only RPM filter. If I select any trigger filter the car doesn't start, I suspect that trigger filtering doesn't work with digital signal as it average out some amount of slots and LINK having a special trigger for "NISSAN 360 opto" stops it from working (but that information can or must be confirmed by LINK personnel.

You started to have theese symptoms with the Adaptronic?
Yes, as soon as I had a good control on boost (no more manual boost control regulator) and I could maintain a flat boost line all the way to the RPM limiter at 1 bar the ignition brake up started to happen, just as I have now.

 

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How does the plugs look? Have you done a compression test or better yet, a leakdown test? Is there a log without the rpm filter then?
The messyness of your rpm lines is because of your CAS. I would like to see how bad it is. It tells a whole lot about it.

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45 minutes ago, Steve said:

I see in one of your logs that at around 3000 rpm your differential fuelpressure is about 340 KPA. Not 300. So at idle i bet its even more. I suspect you got your fuelpump running at full tilt all the time? Not the greatest of ideas.

No, I still run the stock 3 speed fuel pump controller Idle gets 305 to 310 kpa differential fuel pressure
Second speed stage has the following condition (more than 2100 RPM and 14% inj. Duty), AUX 9 activates as DFP is dropping below 296 kpa and moments after it gets back to 305 kpa
Third speed stage has the following condition (more than 2700 RPM and 22% inj. Duty), AUX 10 activates as DFP is dropping below 300 kpa and moments after it jumps to 330 kpa here yes it gets temporarily overwhelmed, but by 4500RPM it tapers down to 315 kpa and +- maintains it to the RPM limit.
look at "ECU Log 2018-09-24 9;18;56 pm.llg"

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2 hours ago, Steve said:

The thing is that with the single pressure deadtimes you got it will actually pull too much fuel and you go lean. So thats at least a big part of your weird fuelmap. You have to compensate for the ecu pulling too much fuel because of..

I understand what you are saying, but if it were so linear or so bad by 3000 RPM and above 60 kpa I'd have to increase VE to compensate for the ECU removing fuel calculation and this is not the case, in fact that's the most stable part of the map, and from my testing I get better AFR stability with fuel pressure compensation option for every time the fuel pump changes speed and FPD changes.
But this is in my case/experience/logs, can be different for others.

1 hour ago, Steve said:

How does the plugs look? Have you done a compression test or better yet, a leakdown test? Is there a log without the rpm filter then?
I don't have pictures to show but they look ok.
The messyness of your rpm lines is because of your CAS. I would like to see how bad it is. It tells a whole lot about it.
I'll try to find a log or make a new one as soon as no rain around here, the little bastard get all squirrelly in 3rd or 4th gear with rain and full throttle.:D

If you don't mind me asking, what is your line of work, is it automotive related?

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