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iliasfyntanidis

Tuning Considerations

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Hi there.

I have started tuning my car and i am using the default values that are applied on the plug in units.I am using the MX5 map and after adjusting the Base Timing and the Master Fuel etc,etc i managed to fire the engine up.Congrats for the maps,great place to start if someone has a clue about what to do.

I am having some questions though and many to follow up in the future.

 

1)First i would like to know at the Ignition Main there is Igniton Delay option.There is also that exact oprtion on the Trigger Calibration.Probaply those 2 numbers should match,right they are the same thing?So entering a value in one field means that i have to enter the same amount on the other.

2)Whats the relation between Idle Base Positon Table and Idle Target RPM Table?If for some reason i would like to raise the idle RPM target should i have to adjust the value on the Idle Base Positon Table?The values on that table(Idle Base Positon Table)mean how fast the idle will rise or fall?Because i did raise the idle RPM target and i did not noticed any change on the Idle Base Positon Table.  

3)I have seen that my timing mark at 15 BTDC while it's stable at idle when i apply some throttle it drifts significantly.I have not adjusted the fitering option on Trigger Set Up for Crank(If that has to do with something)but i have adjusted the values that i am refering to in No1.Can't recall if i had them the same.My crank has 4 teeth and polarity is 100% correct because i used the pin of my OEM harness so only one wire towards Vipec plug accordingly.What can i do for that?

 

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9 hours ago, iliasfyntanidis said:

1)First i would like to know at the Ignition Main there is Igniton Delay option.There is also that exact oprtion on the Trigger Calibration.Probaply those 2 numbers should match,right they are the same thing?So entering a value in one field means that i have to enter the same amount on the other.

Yes, the same setting is available in two different places, you only need to adjust one and the other will change at the same time.

 

9 hours ago, iliasfyntanidis said:

2)Whats the relation between Idle Base Positon Table and Idle Target RPM Table?If for some reason i would like to raise the idle RPM target should i have to adjust the value on the Idle Base Positon Table?The values on that table(Idle Base Positon Table)mean how fast the idle will rise or fall?Because i did raise the idle RPM target and i did not noticed any change on the Idle Base Positon Table.  

It depends if you are using open loop or closed loop.  If using open loop the base position table tells the idle valve how far open to be, the idle target table has no effect.  In open loop mode the idle target table is only used for idle ignition control.

In closed loop mode the base position table is the starting position that the idle valve jumps to when idle conditions are first met, then the closed loop control will take over and adjust the valve position further if needed to make the RPM match the idle target.  The idea is the base position table can quickly get the idle valve somewhere close to where it needs to be then the closed loop only needs to make small corrections.  There are instructions in the help file how to tune idle control.  I suggest you start in open loop mode to build a good base position table.  Follow this page in help:  G4+ ECU Tuning Functions > Idle Speed Control >Open Loop ISC.

 

9 hours ago, iliasfyntanidis said:

3)I have seen that my timing mark at 15 BTDC while it's stable at idle when i apply some throttle it drifts significantly.I have not adjusted the fitering option on Trigger Set Up for Crank(If that has to do with something)but i have adjusted the values that i am refering to in No1.Can't recall if i had them the same.My crank has 4 teeth and polarity is 100% correct because i used the pin of my OEM harness so only one wire towards Vipec plug accordingly.What can i do for that?

Are you seeing this drift when the "set base timing" screen is open (so timing is locked)?  What ECU do you have?
 

 

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1)Thanks.

2)Will look into this deeper.

3)I am sure that the screen is closed but i am also sure that  i am sitting at 15 degrees on my ignition map and ISC ignition table.Will repeat the process and report back with the screen open.The ECU it's a Vipec i88 latest board  version,Serial Number 18553 running the latest firmware.

 

Some more questions...

4)What's the difference between PCLink G4+ V5.6.5.3338b ENG-JPN VV5.6.5(latest) and PCLink G4+ V5.6.5.3338 ENG-JPN V5.6.5. on the PC Link downloads?

 

As i have said i am using the example base map that it is included in the software.The map that i am using it's for the Mazda MX5 and suited for my needs.I have set my Master Fuel from 16ms(originally) to 7ms(I am using Siemens Deka 550EV14 fuel injectors) and i have not touched the fuel map values.

5)The question is..Is it better to have small master fuel and bigger values on the fuel table or the opposite?

6)What's the purpose of Master Fuel Trim?Other than turning the value of  Master Fuel decimal i dont see any other point.

Thanks in advance.

 

 

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15 hours ago, iliasfyntanidis said:

4)What's the difference between PCLink G4+ V5.6.5.3338b ENG-JPN VV5.6.5(latest) and PCLink G4+ V5.6.5.3338 ENG-JPN V5.6.5. on the PC Link downloads?

I actually think *3338 shouldnt be on the website still.  *3338b is the correct one.  From memory *3338 had problems connecting to old firmware.

 

16 hours ago, iliasfyntanidis said:

5)The question is..Is it better to have small master fuel and bigger values on the fuel table or the opposite?

For best resolution it is better to have a smaller master and bigger values in the fuel table.  The main thing you want to avoid is really small numbers in the fuel table - say if your biggest number is 30% you are going to struggle to tune idle.

The general advice is pick a master fuel that gives you numbers around 50% in the middle of your fuel table.

 

16 hours ago, iliasfyntanidis said:

6)What's the purpose of Master Fuel Trim?Other than turning the value of  Master Fuel decimal i dont see any other point.

Correct, they are basically the same, just using the trim you can get a finer adjustment.

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Well the timing light gun drifts a bit on idle,with the screen open but as soon as i raise the rev it's stable.The timing disc has 4 teeth not equally spaced.

I have unstable and week intake manifold pressure.Below it's a video showing the MAP signal(bottom left) on the Zeitronix display.The units are mmHg.The camshafts have 28° degrees overlap,244°/236° at 1mm of lift duration, 106° LSA and 12mm lift.

Some questions

I will alter my equation load source to BAP instead of MAP but does this has any effect while i am idling,standing still and i am in the sea surface.BAP works for BARO compensation which i don't understand if i need at the moment?Will this have any effect on idling or any effect at all?Asuming that i am not driving on a mountain course but in the city where the elevations are minimal.

I will also alter the load axis at my fuel table from MGP to TP as the instructions indicate.

1)I see that in the Base Maps for the MX5 you have in your equation load source MAP.But in your fuel table load axis you have MGP.Why MGP and not MAP?I have read in the instructions that MAP it is not recommended but i can not figure out why?

2)On your ignition map you have as a load axis MAP.Why not MGP as it is used in the fuel table?Can i use MGP as a load axis in the ignition map instead of MAP?

On my Zeitronix display i get a signal of 85 to 170 mmHg(fluctuating) which equals to(11 to 23 Kpa).Having on my ignition table MAP as load axis  i sit on my ignition table 6° BTDC.On my ignition table 6° degrees is 80 Kpa which equals to 600 mmHg.How is this possible?The runtime values show 84 Kpa MAP and  -17 Kpa MGP signal on the PC Link.Shouldn't i be sitting on the 15° degrees ignition angle as i have 11 to 23 Kpa(which my Zeitronix shows) intake manifold pressure?See the attached picture to see what the PC Link shows and what the Zeitronix display shows in order to become more understandable . 

 

 

Regarding the cold start i have read everything that has to do with it and also saw the webinars on HP Academy.But i need some help on the strategy to follow.

I have seen that with the ISC Control makes a huge difference(easier) if it turned from Open Loop to Closed Loop.It was indicated to me that i should try to make the car idle as best as i can with the Open Loop On and then turn On the Closed Loop.How can i keep my ISC solenoid to keep up with my desired idle target?In a previous post Adam,you told me that

'' It depends if you are using open loop or closed loop.  If using open loop the base position table tells the idle valve how far open to be, the idle target table has no effect.  In open loop mode the idle target table is only used for idle ignition control''

3)Should i adjust the Duty Cycle of the ISC and meet the desired rev level for a given ECT temp(The Idle RPM Table probably will be my guide as the idle target,BUT has no effect on Open Loop)????How will i reach the desired rev level ?

 

4)When i hit F12 i get oil temp readings although i have not installed  a gauge for oil?

 

Sorry for the long post.Probably some things might not make much sense or did not explained them correctly.

 

 

 

 

Στιγμιότυπο οθόνης (1).png

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20 hours ago, iliasfyntanidis said:

Well the timing light gun drifts a bit on idle,with the screen open but as soon as i raise the rev it's stable.The timing disc has 4 teeth not equally spaced.

This just appears to be because you have a lumpy idle and a low resolution trigger wheel.  The timing bounces around because the RPM is rapidly changing.  As you notice this effect will smooth out at higher RPM.

 

21 hours ago, iliasfyntanidis said:

I will alter my equation load source to BAP instead of MAP but does this has any effect while i am idling,standing still and i am in the sea surface.BAP works for BARO compensation which i don't understand if i need at the moment?Will this have any effect on idling or any effect at all?Asuming that i am not driving on a mountain course but in the city where the elevations are minimal.

I will also alter the load axis at my fuel table from MGP to TP as the instructions indicate.

I think that will be a good idea, load source = BAP and use TP as the load axis on the fuel table.  Then the unstable MAP has no effect on the amount of fuel injected.

 

21 hours ago, iliasfyntanidis said:

1)I see that in the Base Maps for the MX5 you have in your equation load source MAP.But in your fuel table load axis you have MGP.Why MGP and not MAP?I have read in the instructions that MAP it is not recommended but i can not figure out why?

MGP can keep fueling more consistant over large altitude changes.  This is often not relevant for many users, but more important for hill climbs and aircraft.

 

21 hours ago, iliasfyntanidis said:

2)On your ignition map you have as a load axis MAP.Why not MGP as it is used in the fuel table?Can i use MGP as a load axis in the ignition map instead of MAP?

5

You can use either on the ignition table, but if you are going to change the fuel table to TP then I would do the same for the ignition table.

 

21 hours ago, iliasfyntanidis said:

On my Zeitronix display i get a signal of 85 to 170 mmHg(fluctuating) which equals to(11 to 23 Kpa).Having on my ignition table MAP as load axis  i sit on my ignition table 6° BTDC.On my ignition table 6° degrees is 80 Kpa which equals to 600 mmHg.How is this possible?The runtime values show 84 Kpa MAP and  -17 Kpa MGP signal on the PC Link.Shouldn't i be sitting on the 15° degrees ignition angle as i have 11 to 23 Kpa(which my Zeitronix shows) intake manifold pressure?See the attached picture to see what the PC Link shows and what the Zeitronix display shows in order to become more understandable .

You Zeitronix shows -ve 85-170, so that is reading MGP, not MAP.  Standard atmosheric pressure at sea level is 760mmHg absolute, so your zeitronix reading "-170mmHg" would mean 760-170= 590mmHg or 79KPa absolute (MAP)

 

21 hours ago, iliasfyntanidis said:

3)Should i adjust the Duty Cycle of the ISC and meet the desired rev level for a given ECT temp(The Idle RPM Table probably will be my guide as the idle target,BUT has no effect on Open Loop)????How will i reach the desired rev level ?

Yes.

 

21 hours ago, iliasfyntanidis said:

4)When i hit F12 i get oil temp readings although i have not installed  a gauge for oil?

Most parameters will get a default value assigned if there is no input set up. This is not so important for stuff like oil pressure but if you think of inputs such as fuel temp or air temp for instance that is used in the fuel calculation the ECU needs a realistic number to use if there is no input assigned.

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24 minutes ago, Adamw said:

 

 

You can use either on the ignition table, but if you are going to change the fuel table to TP then I would do the same for the ignition table.

 

 

So what would be your recommendation for my load axis on my ignition map.MAP,MGP or TP?

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