Jump to content
Lallego

1989 R32 GTR single turbo conversion – preparing for the first start

Recommended Posts

Hi all,

I’m on the home stretch of my single turbo conversion. I hope this post will serve as a second source of information and troubleshooting guide for myself and possibly others. I’m sure there are things I can learn from you guys who have done this before.

Base Map: Now when I load the R32 GTR basemap and have yet to change anything (updated firmware, calibrated MAP and TPS). Where should I start in terms of correcting necessary settings on PCLink. Any help is greatly appreciated.

I’m a complete beginner on this ECU, or any ECU in fact. But the goal is to get the car started and idling well. From what I’ve read on the forum, set injector master pulse(4ms?)(if lean increase PW, if rich lower PW) set injector dead times as per the fuel pressure. In this case 30 advised by NZEFI. How about dwell time? I will be using R8 coils (see part below) What about timing? Given my mechanical timing components are installed properly, how is timing set on the ecu? Will I need a timing light as soon as it’s running?

Lastly, will I have to do this?

1.thumb.png.3ffc11b09098c33a32bfdc39d45ee186.png

It says: “In your trigger settings, Set engine type to RB26, set widest slot to 24deg, then set test ECCS sync to off (this must be done last).  Do a store, then crank it again and tell us if it now shows RPM.

All the other stuff is irrelevant for now.  The GTR doesnt have an oil pressure sensor connected to the ECU, the sensor is connected to the gauge in the dash only.  Your air temp sensor is connected to AN Temp 2, so turn AN Temp 3 off and put the below setings in AN Temp 2.  The AN Volt 6 error is because the oxygen sensor wont output voltage until it is warmed up.  We can change the fault setting so that doesnt report an error later.

 

Anyways, there’s a bit more things to button up but I want to have a solid idea when I’m ready to turn the engine over. Should I subscribe for the gold membership at HPAcademy or I can get by first start/idle with the Link forum?

 

Parts:

ECU – GTRLINK - #NGTR+

Using map sensor source from old PCV valve using a 4mm to ¼” BSP fitting.

http://dealers.linkecu.com/NGTRPlus

Manifold – DocRace Single scroll modified w/ an extra vband flange for a second wastegate

https://docrace.com/collections/nissan/products/rbx-single-scroll-topmount

Turbo – 6266 Gen 1 PTE ball bearing w/ an upgraded Gen 2 compressor wheel. “P/S” compressor housing 4” inlet, 2.5” outlet with the anti-surge design. 3AN oil feed (No restrictor as recommended size is 4 an, and I believe there is an orifice within the centering mechanism; but regardless Precision advises against an oil feed restrictor), 10 AN drain utilizing the old drain line.

https://www.realstreetperformance.com/precision-turbo-gen-2-6266-sp-cover.html

Wastegate – 46mm Precision EWG w/ 17 psi springs, 46mm Tial EWG w/ 17psi springs

https://shop.precisionturbo.net/pw46-46mm-wastegate |

BOV – Tial Q 50mm BOV w/ 11 psi springs

http://www.tialsport.com/index.php/tial-products/bovs/46-tialbvq

Downpipe – Custom 3” downpipe

IC piping – Custom 3” IC piping with charge pipe from 2.5” turbo outlet -> 3”

Wideband – AEM 30-4110. 0-5v value? High? Low? Lambda? (Include values and data). Will be wired to pin 29 aka front oxygen sensor).

https://www.aemelectronics.com/products/wideband-uego-air-fuel-controllers/digital-wideband-uego-afr-gauge/digital-wideband-uego-afr-gauge

 

 

2.png.d77a083df5d756f2a8d497e6d7045f60.png3.png.8f6a4949bc4f232f195ee4b0abe445b9.png

 

Injectors – NZEFI 1000cc/min direct fit R32-R34 GTR Bosch ev14 injectors + injector ballast delete. Flow rate? Dead times? Pulse width? (include data)

http://www.nzefi.com/product/nissan-rb-1000ccmin-top-feed-direct-fit-fuel-injector-kit/

 

44.thumb.jpg.17b05a6aca18bfdfd7144f8ed016a2a2.jpg

 

Fuel – Walbro 450 lph, new fuel pump strainer, new fuel filter

https://www.briantooleyracing.com/walbro-450lph-high-performance-in-tank-e85-fuel-f90000274.html

Ignition coils – R8 ignition coils (06E905115E). (Dwell time?) (Does anyone have dwell time data for R8 coils?) How is this even set?

https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Audi-06E905115E-Ignition-Coil/dp/B00NUB40RK

 

Spark Plugs – NGK 4644 BKR7E V-Power Plug (figure out appropriate gap)

https://www.ngk.com/product.aspx?zpid=9349

 

FPR – TurboSmart 1200. 6an to 8mm lines. (Adjust to 43.5 psi base pressure)

http://www.turbosmartdirect.com/Product-Categories/Fuel-Pressure-Regulators/FPR1200-2017-Black.html

MAC 3 Port Electronic Boost Control Solenoid Valve DC12V 5.4W 35A-AAA-DDBA-1BA - Boost solenoid – MAC 3 port solenoid. 1(Normally Closed), 2(Common), 3(Normally Open). Setup: Top port(s) of WG are vented to atmosphere, Bottom port of WG are tee’d into one line that goes to PORT 2 of solenoid, Port 3 of Solenoid comes from turbo vac source, port 1 is vented to atmosphere. (polarity is not sensitive, wired into factory 2 pin connector)

 5.thumb.png.b652ba3a9659ff9158feb6c3e4f347ce.png6.png.3d0a9fcd837c837f5abc5c6d8f6128ec.png

Timing – the timing belt was recently changed before I purchased the car. The slack is just right and seems to follow the instruction manual. I lined up the notches on the intake and exhaust cam and the balancer against the backplate covers and TDC seems to line up with all the marks (belt marks included) - Do I need to set timing in the ECU config? Or is syncing the timing once the car is able to idle?

Clutch – Nismo super coppermix twin plate (push style) to hold for 670 ps.

https://www.rhdjapan.com/nismo-super-coppermix-twin-plate-clutch-kit-bnr32-r32-r33.html

Exhaust – no name catback with a test pipe (cat delete) and resonator delete.

IC – stock intercooler, paint stripped, and oil residue inside core cleaned by sloshing gasoline inside.

Battery – Relocated in the boot via 1 AWG wire, 200Amp circuit breaker 4-5" from positive terminal.

Catchcan – rb26 valve cover push on fittings, 10 AN lines to a dual baffle vented catch can.

 

To be changed/upgraded: IAT fast response sensor, Aluminum radiator

 

Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Lallego said:

I’m a complete beginner on this ECU, or any ECU in fact. But the goal is to get the car started and idling well. From what I’ve read on the forum, set injector master pulse(4ms?)(if lean increase PW, if rich lower PW) set injector dead times as per the fuel pressure. In this case 30 advised by NZEFI. How about dwell time? I will be using R8 coils (see part below) What about timing? Given my mechanical timing components are installed properly, how is timing set on the ecu? Will I need a timing light as soon as it’s running?

You probably wont need a timing light to get it running, but it definitely needs to be checked shortly after it is running/at least before driving.  Master fuel can just be adjusted by "feel" initially.  If it struggles to start or fires then quickly dies out there is probably not enough fuel.  If it starts but runs real lumpy/black smoke etc then probably too much fuel.

Dwell times for the R8 coils you can copy from our Audi TT base map as a close starting point.

 

4 hours ago, Lallego said:

Lastly, will I have to do this?

No the base map should have the correct trigger settings in it already.

 

4 hours ago, Lallego said:

Wideband – AEM 30-4110. 0-5v value? High? Low? Lambda? (Include values and data). Will be wired to pin 29 aka front oxygen sensor).

fc35sk.png

 

4 hours ago, Lallego said:

Anyways, there’s a bit more things to button up but I want to have a solid idea when I’m ready to turn the engine over. Should I subscribe for the gold membership at HPAcademy or I can get by first start/idle with the Link forum?

I think you will get enough help here.  Since you have a single throttle rather than ITB's you will probably want to change to a MAP based fuel table eventually but get it running first and we can talk you through that later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Adamw, thanks for the prompt reply!

Alright so below are the only variables I changed as per your advice. Am I ready to crank the engine?

Master Pulse -

562353468_masterfuel.JPG.26f5fdbfe84d5859cdc566cf431cda4a.JPG

INJ dead times - data wasn't provided for voltages 6-9. Notice #10 is higher than 9, do you have a recommended value for 9..presumably between 1.950 and 1.689? 

1104775019_deadtimeprevalues.JPG.e3a987ff1674bd0cf53ecc06027a8504.JPG

INJ short pulse width adder - when I would enter a value for say '0.375', -0.100 auto adjusts to -0.1008, is this expected? 

 402112500_adderpulse.JPG.94d09f95e89b13590455d5bcad48a31b.JPG

Anvolt 6 - variable values same as your example.

anvolt6.JPG.4d8b896e52cf867b54a4fa2ff89179ce.JPG

Cal4 - variable values same as your example.

cal4.JPG.16c29cd5127c03b9f81d3b2f835d91fe.JPG

R8 coil dwell time - R32 basemap skips 3500 rpm range, and also 16V row..should be alright? 

1045964337_r8coildwelltimefromaudiTTmap.JPG.9ecdc983157ef38ec516a0bcd04f4bc9.JPG

Lastly, fault codes and unused analog i/o. What shall I do with AN4,5, and 9? I won't be using them so do I just turn them off?

For the status' regarding fault codes, do I just ignore them or is there a fix? (I'm just creating the base map on my laptop, not connected to ECU right now.)

faults.JPG.39489c82f5aaaca85432ccd0bd168047.JPG

 

Timing light - do you think this will suffice? I've never used one before and I see tools as an investment. The knowledge and know how will stay forever once I've done it once!

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B000EVYH72/?coliid=I2LDDOVKCRI4ZR&colid=2KC23NVIKNI6V&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

 

Also this, will I experience this? On top of all the variables for this first start, I hope I don't have to go through this one. 

 

As always, I appreciate your time and help! 

 

Regards, 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Lallego said:

Master Pulse -

I would expect more like 6-10ms for a 1000cc injector.

 

5 hours ago, Lallego said:

INJ dead times - data wasn't provided for voltages 6-9. Notice #10 is higher than 9, do you have a recommended value for 9..presumably between 1.950 and 1.689? 

Hit K key to change to graphic view, then adjust the voltage values you dont have until the graph has a smooth trend to it.  Example below:

15d1c0m.png

 

5 hours ago, Lallego said:

INJ short pulse width adder - when I would enter a value for say '0.375', -0.100 auto adjusts to -0.1008, is this expected?

Yes, the finest increment is 0.0016ms.

 

5 hours ago, Lallego said:

R8 coil dwell time - R32 basemap skips 3500 rpm range, and also 16V row..should be alright? 

Yep that will do.  Note you can use the import/export function to get the whole table from another map.  Right mouse click on table, >import/export>export to clipboard, then import into your map.

 

5 hours ago, Lallego said:

Lastly, fault codes and unused analog i/o. What shall I do with AN4,5, and 9? I won't be using them so do I just turn them off?

Yep.

 

5 hours ago, Lallego said:

For the status' regarding fault codes, do I just ignore them or is there a fix? (I'm just creating the base map on my laptop, not connected to ECU right now.)

Those will remain until you are connected to a live ecu. 

 

5 hours ago, Lallego said:

Timing light - do you think this will suffice? I've never used one before and I see tools as an investment. The knowledge and know how will stay forever once I've done it once!

Yes, that will do.  The RB26's have multiple timing marks so you dont need one with an advance function.  Dont use the "timing loop wire" as the factory manual suggests as some timing lights give incorrect results when done that way.  Remove the coil and use an old HT lead between the coil and plug, clamp the timing light onto the temporary HT lead.

 

5 hours ago, Lallego said:

Also this, will I experience this? On top of all the variables for this first start, I hope I don't have to go through this one. 

Hopefully not but the R32 in particular has a horrible power supply circuit that hasnt improved with 30years of ageing, so no guarantees.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Adamw, 

I've applied those basic values to corresponding variables as per your suggestion. 

I did notice that on average, the dwell time is higher on the R8 coil table as compared to I assume oem r32 gtr coil dwell time. Can the system self-learn dwell time values or

do I just try to find the best values overtime? From what I've read to never go over 4.5ms and that other rb26 have had luck with around 2.0-2.2ms, though for which voltage and what RPM? I dont know. 

 

Also regarding the timing light, I found this tester which I assume can act as an HT-lead given that they are designed to display spark..
https://www.amazon.ca/Lisle-20610-Inline-Spark-Tester/dp/B0002STSC6/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Lisle+20610+Inline+Spark+Tester&qid=1556075689&s=gateway&sr=8-1

So the timing light connector would just clip onto any part of that tester cable? 

 

I connected my ecu to the laptop via auto connect and it prompted that I enter some sort of activation code. 

One, where do I find this code and two, how can I find the prompt to enter code once obtained. 

 

The fuel pump primed which, I'll take as a good sign? and disconnected after that. 

 

Please find my .pclr attached to correct or suggest any new setting or future setting. 

89 BNR32 v1.pclr

Also please comment on my dead time curve. 

 

Thanks again for all your help! Really appreciate it from Canada

 

Regards

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Lallego said:

I did notice that on average, the dwell time is higher on the R8 coil table as compared to I assume oem r32 gtr coil dwell time. Can the system self-learn dwell time values or

do I just try to find the best values overtime?

Use the audi TT table as originally suggested.

 

4 hours ago, Lallego said:

Also regarding the timing light, I found this tester which I assume can act as an HT-lead given that they are designed to display spark..
https://www.amazon.ca/Lisle-20610-Inline-Spark-Tester/dp/B0002STSC6/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Lisle+20610+Inline+Spark+Tester&qid=1556075689&s=gateway&sr=8-1

So the timing light connector would just clip onto any part of that tester cable? 

That is not exactly what you want but it will probably work.  Search "Hantek HT308" for a more typical extension lead.  But you dont even need that - any old HT lead off a distributor engine will do, you will probably find one for free if you have any mechanic friends.

 

4 hours ago, Lallego said:

I connected my ecu to the laptop via auto connect and it prompted that I enter some sort of activation code. 

One, where do I find this code and two, how can I find the prompt to enter code once obtained. 

You need to get the unlock code from the dealer you purchased the ecu from.  Once you have it, go to ECU controls>ECU Unlock.

 

4 hours ago, Lallego said:

Also please comment on my dead time curve. 

Yes, that looks fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright, so the car is idling decently on that bare bones base-map that we have setup. 

I switched to 6ms PW

What enhancements can I make to the base-map to improve idle? 

Another thing I noticed was after letting the car warm up, I gave the car a slight rev and the AFR got really rich it started to stall - then picked it self up. I gave it a slightly harder rev and it stalled. What is the reason for that?

I did pickup a timing light and an HT lead, can you please teach me how to set base timing on the Link? 

I know RB26 base timing is 20 degrees, I can achieve that mechanically using the light, when it comes to the PCLink, how is that set? 

Please help me get this thing properly sorted before going to the tuner. I want to be able to drive it around the block (no boosting ofcourse)

 

Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Lallego said:

I know RB26 base timing is 20 degrees,

The value you use to check/set base timing is irrelevant, all we are trying to do is set up the ECU so when it is commanding say 10deg, that the engine is actually receiving 10deg.  The procedure is explained in the help file page:  G4+ ECU Tuning Functions > Triggers >Calibrate

 

6 hours ago, Lallego said:

Another thing I noticed was after letting the car warm up, I gave the car a slight rev and the AFR got really rich it started to stall - then picked it self up. I gave it a slightly harder rev and it stalled. What is the reason for that?

Start by adjusting the master fuel up or down a little and see if it gets it any better.  Otherwise you are going to need to adjust specific regions of the fuel table which im reluctant to advise yet.
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, it idles great at 7ms. 

I've calibrated the timing, and now I'm only waiting for my FPR fittings to come in.

I've triple checked any vaccum leaks and pressurized the system via turbo inlet @ 30 psi and no hissing occurs anywhere. 

 

When I blip the throttle at around 2k rpm, it FEELS as though there is a tiny vacuum leak/misfire.. I don't recall the engine doing this at the stock setup. 

 

Is this due to the fact that the fuel table has yet to be modified to reach target AFR at ALL RPM range? 

 

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, I set my timing to 20 BTDC, 50 milliseconds, adjusted CAS to 5th notch as per timing light, 0 5 10 15 20 BTDC, and when I rev the engine slightly, it goes past 30 degrees, I don't know if it's a guaranteed timing DRIFT or I'm 

"looking at the timing right incorrectly" 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Lallego said:

Also, I set my timing to 20 BTDC, 50 milliseconds, adjusted CAS to 5th notch as per timing light, 0 5 10 15 20 BTDC, and when I rev the engine slightly, it goes past 30 degrees, I don't know if it's a guaranteed timing DRIFT or I'm 

"looking at the timing right incorrectly" 

Was this with the "set base timing" screen open and the "lock timing to" set to 20?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suppose not. 

I tried again this morning and it seems to lock at 20 even when revved. 

I was thinking of doing it again but this way. 

Unlocked idling -> Set cas to 20, 

Lock idle  @ 20 -> Check difference if theres any, if so, set to 20 

Done 

Or is the timing unlocked irrelevant as what matter is when locked at 20, timing light shows 20? 

 

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Lallego said:

Or is the timing unlocked irrelevant as what matter is when locked at 20, timing light shows 20? 

Correct you only check it when the set base timing screen is open so it is locked to the value you are testing.   Note you dont need to move the CAS, you can just change the trigger offset number in the software.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello,

Basemap values adjusted according to new components. 

 

Vacuum leak tested (no leaks)

locked timing to 20 deg and test(success) 

adjust fuel pressure to 45 psi (vacuum line removed) 

 

Vacuum leak test (no leaks). 

 

 

The car idles fine but taking it around the block, it ran like shite (goes super rich). I’ve had enough and had it towed to a shop to get the clutch changed and car street tuned.

 

Th plans changed and I drove the car back home on the “base tune” the tuner did. I checked the differences between the map I gave him and what’s stored on the ecu now and I notice the only difference is Map Limit KPa increased from 140 to 255, and he increased the fuel table 1 values. 

The map x rpm table was not even changed. I guess the VE table. 

 

The car actually drives smooth in the lower rpm ranges (only took it up to 3 k rpm) just to get home. Mind you the tuner did not touch any mechanical configurations. This leads me to believe there are no boost leaks and what cost poor driving issue (when I took the car around the block before going to the shop) was the fact that fuel table had to be adjusted. 

 

I need to learn how to do this. Should we be working on fuel table or the VE table to tune the car? Adamw you were reluctant to teach but I’m ready now. 

 

I also want to touch upon configuring the wastegate(s) accordingly and the bov. As in when they open based on map and other variables.

 

Please see map attached and cross reference from the previous map above. You will see as I have mentioned, all the tuner did to make it driveable was that he increased fuel table averages.. when I kept doubting my mechanical configuration. 

 

 

Thank 

 

 

 

 

test_this_1.pclr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im not sure if you are asking a question or making a statement?  Of course the fuel table and ignition tables (and all other tables) will need to be tuned to your specific engine before it will run well.

 

15 hours ago, Lallego said:

I need to learn how to do this. Should we be working on fuel table or the VE table to tune the car? Adamw you were reluctant to teach but I’m ready now. 

It sounds like you dont even have a good grasp of the basic fundamentals yet so Im reluctant to advise you touch it yet.  I would not attempt to tune a turbo car with this level of understanding.

I would suggest you start by doing something like the low cost EFI tuning fundamentals course here to get a better understanding of the theory behind it:  https://www.hpacademy.com/courses/efi-tuning/  If you try to tune without a good understanding of the basic theories then it will just end in disappointment.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/21/2019 at 10:30 PM, Adamw said:

Im not sure if you are asking a question or making a statement?  Of course the fuel table and ignition tables (and all other tables) will need to be tuned to your specific engine before it will run well.

 

It sounds like you dont even have a good grasp of the basic fundamentals yet so Im reluctant to advise you touch it yet.  I would not attempt to tune a turbo car with this level of understanding.

I would suggest you start by doing something like the low cost EFI tuning fundamentals course here to get a better understanding of the theory behind it:  https://www.hpacademy.com/courses/efi-tuning/  If you try to tune without a good understanding of the basic theories then it will just end in disappointment.  

Yeah I don't, I never intended on tuning the car myself, I just asked the questions above to learn 

The main goal of this post was to get the car started and idling well enough to take to a tuner...

 

Thanks for all the help! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...