jaypat01

So, I have been on a mission to find a way to store some simple values (mostly binary states) in a non-volatile memory location, so I don't lose the set value through a power cycle of the ecu or PDM. This became an issue I wanted to solve after installing multiple AIM PDM32s so that I could retain CAN keypad button states through power cycles, but I have been looking for a third-party device that I could connect to the CAN bus to store these values. I got me thinking that, maybe there was a method already to accomplish this in the ecu. Then I could just use the ecu as my memory storage. This kind of function could be very useful in many scenarios, and it seems like every manufacturer tries to avoid providing it. One example of this use could be retaining the last boost level setting from a multi-state button on the CAN keypad. Sure, these can be accomplished by rotary selector switches, maintained buttons and so forth, but the CAN keypads are a lot more streamline and they allow flexibility to reconfigure them to be used for anything else in the future. @Adamw do you know of any way to accomplish what I am trying to do. I'm thinking my only option at this point is to connect and Arduino to the CAN bus to use as my storage device. Thanks in advance for your help. BTW...I posted this in the G4+ section of the forum because my current project is using a G4+ Thunder for the ecu, but I have also had applications with the G4x that I would like to know if that platform has the capability.

Well it’s likely your application was a V8 with more displacement than this in-line 6cyl 4.2L (but that’s an assumption) Also the characteristics of these injectors at low PW could be worse. But yes, I could not lean it out at idle enough because I was bottomed out on effective PW. You mentioned about making the minimum effective PW zero, but I had already tried reducing that in small steps and the injectors completely shut off (wouldn’t flow any fuel) once I took it down to 0.7ms. So that there tells me it would almost be impossible to lean it out anymore. So I dropped down to 36lb injectors. Good news is I think I can make the 36 lb injectors work… they are close to 90% in the highest fuel demands, but where it kept hitting my DC max was because the accel enrichment was a bit aggressive, so I’m gonna dial that back. The accel enrichment was spot on when it was warmed up, but the ECT correction on the accel enrichment was quite high in colder temps (these were values carried in by the Fury base map). I set that whole table to (1) now and will adjust as needed once I do some warm up calibrations.

That is exactly what I need. Like you said, it just isn’t an option. What I’m running into now is I have dropped my primary injector size down to a size that is suitable for idle and light throttle fueling, but I am maxing the duty cycle out when the time between injection events becomes so short and fuel demand is at its highest. Even with a relatively low redline motor (4k rpm redline) there is still only 5ms between the start of each injection event with an injection rate of 6. This is why I need to utilize my secondaries.

So I realize that my particular scenario is rare (because let's face it, who is using throttle body fuel injection anymore), but if it's not terribly hard to implement a full range of injection rates in the firmware... it could be beneficial for the G4x platform to have the ability; to make it cover an even larger percentage of applications out there and make it more universal.

@Vaughan maybe I’m not understanding how the grouped injection rate works, but my goal is actually to have 6 injection events per engine cycle (one injection event for each cylinder’s intake stroke on a 6 cylinder). This is just single point injection, so there is only one group.

@Vaughanor @Adamw…is there a reason that the only available injection rates for “group/staged” fueling are 1,2 and 4? I want to run two injectors as primaries and 2 as secondaries on a throttle body injection in-line 6cyl and currently have 2 firing with an injection rate of 6. I want to continue this while adding the secondaries. The only possible solution I see at the moment is configuring the map for a 2 cylinder and setting the injection rate as 2. The triggering is a simple pulse for every cylinder’s ignition event, so the only issue I see is the rpm will be x3. I also would scale the engine displacement accordingly like it was only a 2 cylinder.

@Adamwyou are right, it’s probably actual PW. Holley labeled it as “minimum injector opening time”. Regardless, the new injectors come today and I think it will suit the application a lot better. Because like you said, it could be operating in a very non-linear region of volume vs PW plot because it’s just barely opening to provide such a small amount of fuel. So the smaller injectors will have to open longer and will respond in a more predictable fashion. Even if I got it leaned out, I worry that the modeled fuel equation won’t adapt well to environmental changes in the relatively low fuel consumption regions of the map (idle, light throttle).

@Adamwso the injectors are what came in the original Holley Sniper TBI conversion. I didn’t care for it so I through their ecu in the trash and installed a Fury G4x. So there is limited data on the injectors but they do list flow rate at a certain pressure and the injector dead times. It wouldn’t surprise me if this data is wrong. So I will try lowering it to see if I can achieve target AFR. They did list the minimum effective pulse width at 1.2ms which seems to be a lot, so I dropped that to 0.8ms and got it leaner. I took it to 0.7ms and it shut off. I actually ended up ordering another set of injectors that are 36lb/hr instead of the installed 1000lb/hr. So that’s my end game.

So essentially the fuel calculation adjusts itself based on the injection rate that a user inputs…fair enough. So now that I have this running…my fear has become evident. I’m firing two 1000cc injectors together at the throttle body (because there is one in each barrel of the TB) and I am bottomed out on my INJ Pulse width and still too rich. Here are the options I’d see other than sourcing new injectors…drop the injection rate from 6 to 3 (which I worry many cause unstable fuel mixtures across all 6 cylinders) or try to make it that each injector fires out of phase from each other ( fire INJ 1, then 2, then 1, then 2). Do you guys see this as a viable solution? I also worry firing the two injectors at separate times will effect fuel atomization with one barrel pulling in just fresh air. But, maybe I’m over thinking it.

Well, that did it! The MSD 8918 worked. Now here is my final question @Adamw or @Vaughan. When I enter the "injector flow rate" in modelled fuel mode, the help section states that in single point group or multi-point group injection mode that you would take total flow rate of all the injectors added together and divide by the number of cylinders and use that number for the injector flow rate. But, is this really the case if in single point injection if I set the rate of injection to the number of cylinders (so the injectors will fire for each one of the cylinder's intake strokes). I would think with this setting the injector flow rate should be the total of the two injectors I am using for single point injection (throttle body injection). Thanks in advance for the help!

This is a great starting point. I just ordered one and I will see how it works out. For reference….I was using an AIM rpm filter/adapter (ARP03). Seemed to be almost up to the task…but not quite there. My last resort will be adding a trigger wheel to the crank pulley. I added the provision in my engine harness to add one in the future.

I can’t really see from the clarity of that pic. Is there two falling edges there where you circled? Nvm…I opened the trigger log and I see it now.

This is as I suspected @Vaughan and you will see this is how I have the triggers configured. I have attached the trigger scope and the config file. Don't mind the fuel maps, I haven't got there yet. Just configured the injector settings. Also, there is not enough allowable space left in the post to attach my log. Maybe there is another way to send it to you? FJ40 2F TBI 021722.pclx TriggerScopeLog.llgx

So I’ve installed a G4x Fury on an application where it is grossly under used, but I mistakenly assumed the G4x had the same trigger modes as the G4+. So here is the application and maybe @Adamwcan chime in. I installed a G4x Fury on a Toyota 2F motor (4.2L in-line 6cyl) in an 77 FJ40 to convert it to EFI. I will not be controlling ignition with the Fury, this will be done through a vacuum advance distributor with a magnetic pickup and Petronics igniter. Fuel injection will be accomplished through throttle body injection. This includes 2 injectors total (one in each of the two barrels). Since the ignition is independent and the fuel injection mode will be single group injection, the ecu will not need to know any sequence of cylinder firings…the injectors just need to fire in reference to each cylinder ignition event, regardless of which cylinder fires. So I have used a converter that drops the pulsed signal from the coil negative trigger to a low level that the ecu can use and have wired this to trigger 1. This essentially looks like a Hall effect sensor on the ecu and I have configured it as such. I realized after setting up the Fury that the G4x no longer lists “1 tooth per TDC” trigger mode as an option. So I tried to use a different mode, “multi-tooth” on trigger 1 and tooth count as 6 (because the coil fires 6 times for every single rotation of the cam) , also I set the trigger up as a “cam” source. On trigger 2, I set the “sync mode” as “None”. I was assuming that would ignore the “sync tooth” number in the trigger 1 settings, but regardless…I set the “sync” tooth to 1. Where it sits right now, I crank and it shows nominal cranking rpm and then shoots to 6k-10k rpm. I found that this is because the log shows that trigger 1 status goes to “counting timeout”. Also, the trigger scope shows a clean signal from the coil, but without knowing how the ecu detects a “tooth edge” I can’t know for sure if the signal is the issue. It produces a clean square wave that switches between 9v and 0v.

So there was actually a test someone did with an sw20 in a wind tunnel to see how the air flowed around the car and when they moved the smoke stream to the front fog light (even with the fender liner fully intact and not vented) the smoke actually was pulled into and out of the wheel well through the bumper. Now of course there are some things I could do to help create more negative pressure on the wheel well like a small deflector running up the front of the wheel well edge or spacing out the fender where it meets the door, but I’m going to mess with other things first as I’m trying to keep the body looking oem. Also, my fans are controlled off differential temp between ambient air and the water coming out of the heat exchanger (low speed always comes on when the car is under 20mph and high speed is turned on when the delta temp is 5F and the car is under 20mph). I do this because in most cases running the fans at higher vehicle speeds can reduce airflow if the air speed is greater than air velocity produced by the fan. But, this condition may never happen where the exchangers are mounted so next course of action will be removing the speed lockout and seeing if I can pull heat out quicker with the fans running while the car is at speeds above 20mph. Now all this being said, my goal is just to get my water temps as close to ambient air as possible and hold it steady…for the most part, I see between 5-10F difference between the ambient air and the water coming out of the heat exchanger on a hot day (90F). This is a street car and I don’t have a massive reservoir because I’m never putting ice in it. I’m not trying to be the fastest thing out there or break records, I just find pleasure in properly designed systems that work well.