K4Tuning
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Posts posted by K4Tuning
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Thanks @Adamw for the post. That makes sense, I was thinking because of the large injectors and trying to have them control such small quantities is probably some inconsistencies between cylinders. I actually played with my sensor depths and found out that the difference in temp vs depth is like 50* or more per 1mm. Some very small tweaking in the depths and I was able to get my egt values all within about 15* of each other. Im plenty happy with that. Moving into some wide open logging soon. Thanks again for the reply.
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Also the logs for the warmup and road test for anyone wanting to view..
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1fFhGordB8L6PUbTOF4wy3vvB_RKhiEO_?usp=sharing
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@JMP Hey thanks for the response! I believe the exhaust ports are as close to identical to eachother as possible, and sensors are as close to the same distance and depth as I could make them. Im probably being too picky with this because I logged another full cold start full warm up cycle again later in the day and I had better results. My paired cylinders 1 and 4 still read about 80* cooler then my other paired cylinders 2 and 3, but are within about 20* of eachother. My cylinders 2 and 3 are also close within about 20 degrees of eachother. So I feel this is probably not worth trying to make better. Durring the road test there was a larger high low spread between paired cylinders but both pairs stayed within 50* of eachother. I think these are fine results and I will proceed with more fine tuning into the power curve now. Thanks again for the response!
Pics for reference to placement.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1vCdK0dcf-e1trjPDdsWoatiVo4tss9UE?usp=sharing
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Alright link fam, I have a in depth question here bout individual cylinder EGTs. Hoping someone can shed some light on this for me.
OK, So I just installed individual egt sensors in the exhaust runners of my fully built evo 9. Egt sensors are placed exactly 2 inches from the end of the cylinder exhaust ports. Depths of all sensors are the same at about 10mm of tip extended into the runners.
I know and understand that the cylinders will never be the same temp and probably average 20-50*F at any given time with a spread of 100* or more between cylinders/runners. Now with 0 trim to any cylinders, iv noticed that my cylinders 2 and 3 are awesome and run right in line with eachother at only a difference of about 10*of eachother. My cylinders 1 and 4 seem a little different and I assume its due to the outer runners having a little harder angle on them coming off of the head. They follow similar patterns as 2 and 3 but are reading about 50-70* cooler than the others and my cylinder 4 seems to run an average of about 100* or more cooler then the others.
Now,, all of this is with normal driving to work or out and about, no full throttle stuff yet. Iv noticed that if I let my car sit and idle that my cylinder 4 will sit like 200-250* cooler then the others and its confusing me because the others are within 50* or so of eachother.
Heres where it really starts confusing me, If I pull fuel away from cylinder 4 at idle the temp doesnt change much. But if I add fuel to cylinder 4, the temp will increase slightly. Adding more fuel on top will increase the temp slightly some more, to a point, and then egt on cylinder 4 doesnt rise anymore. I have also noticed that adding fuel to cylinder 4 also smooths out the idle slightly.
Question is, why would adding fuel to a cylinder at idle increase the egt? And is there a sweet spot to this? kinda like injector spray timing, should I add fuel to the cylinder until the egt peaks and starts coming back down or should I just leave it at 0 trim where my egts are drastically cooler then the other cylinders? What about the smoother idle with added fuel to cylinder 4? If the engine idle seems smoother then thats a plus right?
See what I mean by confusing.
If anyone has any input on this please let me know what you think. I know EGT tuning less then 5k and out of boost is mostly useless but if I can make the car run better, im gonna try. Thanks everyone!
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Yeah you dont need both pumps running at the same time, That will increase fuel temp too much as well as make your pressure hard to deal with. Iv made over 700wheel with a single hardwired 450 in my evo 9. So there is no need for both pumps to be running at idle or even low power conditions. Iv installed many radium units and they do have their own fuel siphon design so there shouldnt be any pressure created by not enough fuel being returned. Im gonna say your main issue is having both pumps running at the same time when they arent needed. Just run one pump through one relay triggered by the factory pump power wire, then trigger your second pump with link to come on at like 15-20psi or wherever you feel its needed.
Another thing is that the walbro pumps werent really designed to operate less than 12-13v so there is a higher risk of pump failure operating them at lower than intended voltage.
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Hey just a little input on this, First off what fuel pumps and what pump hanger are you using? And I assume you are using a larger fuel feed and return line kit? In most cases it is advised to just run the aftermarket pumps hardwired via a relay. Makes it easy, just take the normal fuel pump power wire from the existing wiring and use that as the trigger for the relay to kick on the pump. This will be running at 13-14v constant. As far as the second pump goes, it is very easy to send a trigger signal from link to activate another relay to kick on the second pump. You can do this with a power signal or a grounded signal. I prefer sending ground as often as I can. As far as your pressure stuff goes, Your fuel pressure should never drop much below your base set point. If it is dropping then there is then there is an issue somewhere else or maybe the second pump needs to kick on earlier to keep pressures in check. Now depending on your pump and hanger setup, it may have a stock or aftermarket fuel siphon provided by the manufacturer. If its a stock siphon it either will or will not need drilled out. A lot of companies will sell a dual fuel pump hanger with a siphon that has already been drilled out to the correct size. This is a major part in keeping fuel pressure where it needs to be especially with big pumps. Also some fuel pressure regulators will have different internal parts that you can change to help regulate fuel volume. Should be pretty easy to get your pressures in check. Stick to a base pressure of 43.5. Hope any of that helps.
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Thanks for the input. I’ll check that link out.
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Hey all I finally got my individual EGT set up done and fired up the car yesterday. Link g4x PnP for Evo 9. I have not adjusted anything from the original tune I had on the car. Lambda hovers around 1.0 with an average correction of +/- 1.0 or so. My egts per cylinder at idle temps are around 680 degrees F for cylinders 1 and 3 and cylinders 2 and 4 show about 80-100 degrees higher. I’m assuming individual cylinder temps + or minus 100 degrees is pretty average. But if I want to get these temps closer to the same. Say within 50 degrees of each other, what is the best method to doing this. What I mean is how do I tell if the cylinder that need adjusted are the hot ones or the cool ones. Like are the cooler ones getting too much fuel, or are the hot ones too little fuel. And is it better to adjust this by individual cylinder fuel trim, or individual cylinder ignition trim. I feel all of this is slightly irrelevant at idle and cruising and most important for full throttle purposes but I haven’t had time to do any dyno tuning as of yet. Just looking for others opinions. Thanks!!
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Hey trying to help but I’m not sure I understand your issue. If the ecu is a plug and play, you should be able to open up one of the Evo 8 base maps provided and your IAT, ECT and other important AN inputs should already be configured. You may need to adjust IAT/ECT calibration to make sure the sensors are reading ambient temp and are within 5 degrees of each other or so. But other than that you shouldn’t have to do much else.
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2 hours ago, Robsevo9 said:
Thanks, I’m putting the engine back together this weekend and will test for that. Does the ecu have to be connected? Or the key on?
I would plug the ecu in. I actually dont remember if power goes through the ecu before it gets to the sensor or not. Easy enough to find out, just key on the car without the ecu plugged in and see if you have power and ground at the sensor. If no power and ground then try with the ecu plugged in. You can use a stock ecu plugged in for testing if your link ecu is getting checked.
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2 hours ago, Robsevo9 said:
Question! How do I know if the sensor on the crank is working? I took the timing belt off because I removed the head should I change it?
The crank sensor will be a 3 wire sensor. Check for Power and Ground on the power and ground wires. The third wire will be the signal wire and will change voltage while the engine is turned over. You should be able to turn the engine over by hand and see a change in voltage on the signal wire as the trigger passes the sensor. If no voltage is not present, or if voltage doesnt change at all then there is a sensor or wire issue. Cam sensors can be checked the same way.
As far as replacement, If you are unsure of the sensor, it might be best to just get a new oem sensor. I think oem crank sensors are slightly more expensive but I only suggest oem sensors and spark plugs. ILFR7H is the factory 9 plug number.
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On 10/24/2023 at 8:31 PM, Smatchu said:
Hi guys, we are looking to set up launch control on an E46 race car & wondered if anyone has any tips/ recommendations on what has worked for them? Am thinking of fitting a clutch switch to arm( has a full pedal box installed), factory speed sensors on a front & rear wheel if the BMW sensors will work? Any advice would be appreciated.
Hey a bottom mounted clutch switch will work well for arming. Im sure theres a simple way to set something up with a peddle box. Iv also seen people install a button on the parking brake or somewhere similar. If you are looking fora rolling launch control then you would likely want a button. There are also more generic ways to set up a launch control strategy which is pretty much always on but shuts off above a certain mph. Hope some of that helps.
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@Robsevo9 Let us know if you come up with a fix for it!
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@Robsevo9 It could be, Like I mentioned there are many ways to build an engine, If it works without any issues then great! Just not off to a great start lol. So If everything checks out mechanically then you gotta start fishing electrical and tune related.. Ill keep thinking of why it woudnt start. Iv seen the mivec gears installed wrong on the cams and it will smash the alignment pin into one of the oil holes. Its hard to do but iv seen it. The timing marks will line up but the engine wont have compression. If you have good compression that is unlikely. Good evo 9 compression is around 160psii believe, can be more or less depending on piston specs.
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1 minute ago, Robsevo9 said:
One broke before the rebuild it was in the oil pan (from previous owner). I couldn’t be at peace knowing that it might happen again after spending all this money
hmmm, kinda an odd reason to just eliminate them. they actually work very well for cooling the piston and lubricating the pin and cylinder walls. They arent expensive to replace. As far as them breaking, Iv seen this happen because they get installed crooked or not positioned correctly. Then depending on piston design and skirt length, the skirts can contact and break off the squirters, More likely in a stroked engine, but most times they can be carefully bent into a position that doesnt contact anything and they will live happy there. Iv built many performance 4g63s and never heard of anyone blocking off the oil squirters. But many ways to build an engine. My suggestion would be install them for peace of mind vs remove them for peace of mind. I dont have experience with how a 4g63 runs with them blocked off so that would be word of others but they are there for good reason.
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@Robsevo9 what was the reasoning for blocking off the oil squirters?
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21 hours ago, Laminar said:
Would there be value in making a 2D table that varies injection angle based on vvt intake cam position if you're really shooting to syncronize injection with the intake valve movement?
This would be a nifty idea. I even thought about doing this in my vehicle while on the dyno. While tuning different vvt angles ill have the map locked at different angles to overlay tq output and build a map which produces the most. Would also be a great time to find the best injection base timing for each specific vvt angle and build one complete injector base timing map and vvt map at the same time.
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8 hours ago, Robsevo9 said:
Also can anyone confirm if these blocked holes are ok? Evo 9 with mivec
Yes the blocked passages are supposed to be that way. Crank and cam triggers look correct for tdc positions. I see you are using a balance shaft elimintor. Is it a full length race shaft or is it just the stub shaft? And also the balance shaft bearings were flipped around to block the oil ports right?
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This often a difficult subject to grasp and understand because there are soo many different factors that will change how an engine runs. Theoretically you can do the math and get an exact point of time to when the valves open/close or when to inject the fuel. But then air temperature, air velocity, engine speed, port design, ignition timing, fuel pressure, fuel temperature, and more will effect how the engine runs at that particular injection timing. The best way to figure out when the best time to inject fuel is mentioned above. Watch your lambda correction value at idle and make small changes to the injection timing either up or down and adjust to its richest value. If you make an adjustment and the lambda correction is going negative keep going until it starts going back the other way. At one of these adjustment points the cylinder will ingest as much fuel as it possibly can during one valve open/closing event. This is usually the sweet spot and injection timing can be populated to this number in the whole map, Or you can play with injecting timing with engine speed above 3k rpms or so. Another big thing to pay attention to is just how the engine seems to like the adjustments. it might seem to run super great in one area and slightly rough in another. Just takes playing with to get right.
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@Robsevo9 Def need to do the ignition sync when it gets running but as said above, the simple checks need to be confirmed first. As far as the new build goes. Evos need crank and exhaust cam position sensors correct to fire. The Intake and exhaust cam sensors do have different part numbers and can be switched in the housings. I have never confirmed that a vehicle would not actually run with the sensors switched but that is one thing to check. The exhaust trigger wheel can also be installed 180 degrees off from correct as well, this could actually cause the ignition to fire at the incorrect time. This is easy to check. If you get the engine to TDC, remove the exhaust cam sensor and you should be able to see through the bore to the back side of the housing. If the trigger is 180 off, as soon as you look in the bore the trigger will be blocking from seeing through any further. The slow engine cranking issue could be weak battery or weak grounding somewhere. Starter could be getting tired. Compression check is always a good confirmation to make sure its capable of firing. Evos are very easy to foul plugs with a new build, especially if the fueling isnt correct. Check the plugs, if they are black they may be fouled and not firing. Fuel pressure check, TP calibration, MAP/BAP/IAT in check. If all that seems good then it shoudnt be too far from starting. Let us know if you figure anything out.
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Heyy my bad I just briefly viewed your log and cal file. Looked like the vehicle was cranking over just not firing. Maybe I missed something. Im pretty experienced with evos, just not extremely experienced with the link stuff yet. Although I have my own vehicle running pretty great, spotting issues in other cal files is difficult. I know the evo 8s had some ignition issues. Im currently dealing with one right now actually on stock ecu. Best to start off with all of your general checks and go from there. If you get it figured out, post up the fix so i can pay attention to it. Thanks and best of luck.
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Hey looked over your cal and log. Im still learning all of this stuff as well, but compared to my evo 9, your idle base control table values look super low. Every car will be different but maybe try raising the values there. Mine taper from 75 cold temps to 50 when hot. Give that a shot and see if it will stay running enough to fine tune your idle. Hope that helps and hope you get it figured out.
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@Confused hey thanks for the input. Im actually not even sure this traction control adventure is a possibility or not. It doesnt sound like there is a good way to separate driving wheels from slipping wheels in an awd system like mine. There is essentially no undriven element. Ill keep thinking but may be a lost cause haha. Thanks for the input and if you think of anything else please let me know.
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I had some conversation with a coworker and I can just reassign my vehicle speed source to one of my wheel speed inputs instead of transmission speed sensor. That tales care of the wheel speed/trans speed issue. Just need to find a proper way to determine wheel slip while all 4 wheels are driving wheels. Like you mentioned, Im sure there will be a visible difference in a log when traction loss is happening. Its gonna be a bit before im able to test some things but forward thinking the process.. Thanks again for the added input. If you have anymore suggestions/ideas let me know!
Fuel pressure
in G4+
Posted
If everything was working fine before and the only thing changed is an upgraded pump, then I would double check the pump install and the basket. Iv seen many torn o rings or not crimped hoses. Some pumps need 2 or even 3 o rings around the neck to seal properly. Also maybe compare the pump body length of the new and old pump. If the new pump is shorter and didnt come with a larger seat then its pressure may be forcing it back and out of place. If nothing changed with lines or regulator then I would double check everything is good with the pump and basket itself. Best of luck! Happy Holidays.