Felix Kreysig

Thats obviously the major issue with the 3S-GTE PnP ECU setup as it uses the OEM sensor setup while discarding almost all OEM ECU ground points. The OEM loom grounds the sensors to the intake manifold and the actors somewhere at the chassis or block I believe (would have to look up ground locations though...). So I'll try to replace the remaining ground wire at the ECU with a larger diameter and hook all sensor grounds to ECU sensor ground at the expansion connector...

Recently I discovered an interesting issue with my Link G4 PnP, fitted to a 2nd Gen 3SGTE. The setup: I am running two wideband Lambda sensors, an LC-1 LSU 4.2 for the gauge and a Techedge WBO2 SC0B 4.9 Sensor for data acquisition and tuning. The prologue: After I installed the Techedge sensor I noticed that the Techedge AFR readings around 14.7:1 where always about 0.5 points richer than the LC-1 (at stoich the LC-1 displayed 14.2:1). First I accounted this to a badly calibrated 4.2 sensor but a repeated free air calibration didn't change anything. Since both sensors are mounted in close proximity to each other I then just accepted the difference as an inaccurate LC-1. The reason for my quick resignation: the Techedge is advertised as being extremely accurate thanks to its so called "differential input". This feature means the controller has a separate "voltage correction input" which is to be connected to the ECUs or dataloggers ground and picks up differential voltage which is added or substracted to the actual WBO controller output to reduce noise or offset voltage. So I connected that input to the ground point where my ECU is grounded. The issue: On a recent test drive after installing a water injection I noticed the LC-1 was telling me I would be starting to lean out progressively, starting at 3500. Of course I ignored it once again blaming my LC-1. But at 4500 @ 0.8bar and 13:1 my knock phones came alive... I took a look at the logs and: the Techedge read 12:1 as supposed. The with increased load the LC-1 did obviously no longer display richer AFRs than the Techedge but increasingly leaner. Now I started to doubt whether the LC-1 was really faulty. So I decided to rewire the Techedges differential input from the ECU ground point to the ground wire approx. 5cm (2inch) after the ground connector of the ECU... and voilà: both LC-1 and Techedge read the same! So I measured differential voltage between ECU ground input and ground point and got a whopping 0.5V difference increasing with injector pulse width (which makes perfect sense when assuming that injector current is being sent through the ground wire...). I have to admit: my engine wiring loom is in a.... pitiful condition to say the least. He has seen many different ECUs and piggybacks, is about 23 years old and so on. So replacing the loom is mandatory BUT: while rebuilding the ECU plugs I noticed that the PnP ECU only uses ONE single ground connector. The OEM ECU uses at least 4 different ground connectors for actors and one separate ground for sensors. Additionally the ground connector of the OEM loom used by the PnP ECU is the dedicated sensor ground so the ground wire is the smallest of all available. Even if my loom would be in perfect condition I would deem the ground wire to be much to small. The wire-in G4 Storm ECUs also have at least two separate ground connectors... so is there any way to improve the PnP units grounding? P.S.: after being aware of that issue and revising some of my logs I noticed that occasionally the TPS input voltage to the ECU seemed to drop with increased load without the TPS Sensor being moved. The TPS Sensor ground is placed at the intake manifold (since there is no separate sensor ground aside from the expansion connector which is not used when just plugging the G4 to the OEM loom). That seems to be connected to the ground offset voltage.

Hi Daniel, I am running the 3SGTE with 850s and an EFR 6758. I'd suggest buying a Storm or even Extreme. I bought a PnP ECU and actually I would have gotten off better with one of the latter ECUs. Reasons: 1. More flexibility. You simply have more Input channels with wire ins. Besides, I chose to open up my engine wiring loom to extract all wires unused and ended up with an almost completely stripped and reworked loom in the first instance, so I could have fabricated a custom loom as well.... which I did in the second instance.... 2. No need for an external MAP Sensor. The PnP board relies on your stock MAP Sensor which is definitely 'outboosted' if you plan to use the EFR in a way it is designed to so you'd need an external sensor eliminating one of the already scarce Analog Inputs. The Storm and the Extreme have internal sensors with 2.5bar which are perfectly suited for anything but insane builds. 3. No hassle with basic setup. Just copy the settings and Maps of the PnP File and you have a perfect startup map as you would have with the PnP. As an excuse: when I bought the PnP I wasnt aware how crappy the stock wiring is and had no plans on switching to COP ignition, an EFR and so on...

At which idle rpm are you aiming? I've found it hard to get stable idle at rpms below 900 with almost stock cams, light flywheel and 850cc SARD injectors even with all idle control options turned on. Although overall AFRs stabilize at 14.7:1 I believe that due to a very unfavorable relation of injector dead time to total pulse time the individual afrs for each injection event fluctuate causing torque fluctuations. Using the idle ignition trim helped a lot. The stock 3SGTE idle control valve is a story of its own.... if you haven't already, I'd suggest you dismantle an clean it properly as it is very prone to coking rendering it react very sluggish or getting stuck completely. That leads to over and undershooting pulsewith when using PID Closed loop regulation.

The stock triggering is really ok in combination with the Link. No trigger errors whatsoever. Indeed the stock trigger causes lots of problems with intercepting piggybacks like the Emanage or the AEM F/IC as the signal strenght of the crank signal is rather low compared to other trigger setups but I have not experienced any troubles with full standalones up to now. Problems are mostly caused by bad shielding and electrical interference. Just get yourself a high quality shielded 3-wire cable and replace the stock wiring. Important: shielding should ALWAYS be grounded close to the ECU, I guess the xtreme has a separate shielding ground. Everything you need for cop ignition is within the distributor unit. Just be sure to use the right CAM Output (there are two, G1 and G2), supposedly G1 is the right one, though at my last engine it was G2... maybe false pin out on plug...

Depends on how you tune your engine. If you put your car on the dyno and hold the rpm / load point static until you hit your AFR Autotune can reduce the time you will have to spend on each cell and thereby reduce engine stress, esp. under higher load / rpm. I use ATune only at low to mid load and rpm and prefer complete RPM sweeps at different loads with subsequent log evaluation and tuning. The QuickTune feature (automated calculation of target pulse with based upon current pulse with, current AFR and target AFR) is of great help here. I prefer this approach mainly when tuning mid-engined cars where cooling issues quickly arise when holding rpm points static.

They are reluctor type. You actually have 3 different connections. G22+ for cam angle, NE+ for crank angle and NE- which is the negative connection for both NE+ an G22+. For correct wiring take NE- from the ECU Side of the loom and wire it to 'Sensor Ground'. NE+ will go to Trig 1Â and G22+ will go to Trig 2 . Unfortunately I am not sure regarding setup... I think its the same as for 3SGTE.

When Installing the xtreme on a 3sgte you do not need permanent 12V Battery power, switched ignition power is perfectly fine. Connect all black power ground wires separately engine block or the intake manifold (theres good a stock power ground (E01 / E02) location at the downside of the intake manifold you could use unless you have some sort of phenolic gasket or tvis eliminator, bad ground connection then, use block instead). The knock sensor is grounded via its shell, shielding should be grounded at the ECU shielding wire, same for Oxygen sensor. When doing it the 'Toyota way' the stock oxygen sensor is actually not grounded via sensor ground but separately at the same point as the power grounds. If you drive an input low you can ground the switch wherever you want, as long its a rather large solid metal object without significant electric potential... i.e. yes, chassis will be fine

After the eaton charger and throttle body somewhere in the intake manifold / plenum. You want to measure actual pressure which feeds the combustion chambers. When placing it in front of the charger you could not measure actual boost. Air flow bypassing the intake plenum is of no relevance for MAP based systems.

Actually you could discard the Check connector completely, but I'd keep at least TE2 and E1 which can still be used for ABS and Servo steering diagnosis via the check lamp in your dashboard. VF is Voltage Flap (from your AFM will be scrapped I suppose) The check connector does not provide ground. The IG- going to the connector  is used for RPM reading with an external engine tester (same signal as fed to your tach unit).

Little update: Moving the offset to 360° did not work, as the software rejected any changes in that numerical size. I the decided to switch the G1 / G2 (i.e. cam position) sensors which lay 360° apart and voilá! Works as intended. IGN 1 fires as 1, INJ 1 as 1 and so on. The injection indeed must have fired 360° displaced as well, as increasing accel enrichment never helped getting rid of sudden acceleration hesitation. Now it works beautyfully.  Thanks for the input, Merry Christmas

The prime time is only of interest after turning ignition to 'on', At that point the pump starts running to build up fuel pressure in the rail. Have you used the Subaru V 7-9 basemaps? If so I guess during start your injectors are running with duty cycles above the preset switching point. After start up enrichment has faded away they drop below and fuel pump goes to 'low' mode. You could try adjust the switching point to higher cycles to get rid of that issue.

I'd suggest 14 gauge. Better to large than to small and quite the perfect size should you upgrade you fuel pump in future (especially the Supra fuel pump draws lot of current...) Just get a High Current relay and trigger it via the original fuel pump wires.

Its included with the Link software in the basemap directory.

Ok, I'll try to sort this out today. So you'd suggest setting the Trigger Offset in the calibration to 360° after confirming both injector and timing channels are 1 on 1, 2 on 2 and so on?

But at the current wiring setup AUX IGN1 triggers Coil 4 (the coil next to the flywheel), AUX IGN4 triggers no. 1 while Injectors are wired following the Link G4 PnP Pinout.... is there any chance the engine would run smoothly with injection happening 360° inversed?

As to my knowledge Haltech uses GM Sensors. Calibration can be found here: http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/product_info.php/products_id/400 I'd suggest you remove the cold start injector from below the intake manifold (not needed any more) and fabricate an adapter plate where you can mount the sensor. You could also buy such an adapter plate, I think e. g. KO Racing in the U.S. offers those...

The engine ran great with distributor setup, pulled 368 flywheel horsepower at 18psi with a BorgWarner EFR 6857, had better than stock cold start habits (I love the pre-start injection feature), stable afr even without closed loop control. Since swapping to COPs and doing some cylinder selective fuel / ignition tuning fuel economy has improved beyond stock as well, so I assume injector and spark timing are correct (I once messed up wiring with an AEM FIC and injecting fuel while intake valves are closed produced some interesting black clouds, misfires and so on...) Is there any means of checking the firing order of the injectors in correspondence to the spark timing via datalogging?

I just dropped my distributor ignition in favour of four 1ZZFE coils. After I wired and triple-checked the 4 IGN outputs to the corresponding coils (no. 1 being the coil at the cam wheels as it is common practice) and tried to run the engine: nothing. Not even the slightest hickup... so I once again checked spark, fuel, timing and found everything to be in order. 2 hours of kicking cans, yelling at the car and sitting in the corner crying I made a last attempt to solve the issue and wired in the channels at a 360° crank angle displaced order i. e. the ignition order was now 4 2 1 3 instead of 1 3 4 2 (yes... I could have done that via software... argh) and.... RUNS. So whats the point? Does the Link ECU use inversed cylinder numbering starting at the flywheel instead of the cam gear side? Sequential ignition worked fine since first startup, so I think I can exclude any wiring mismatch. Just FIY: the 3S cam position sensor uses two pickups which are seperated by 360° crank angle, so if you wire in the wrong sensor, everything will be displaced by 360°...

And while you are at it, give the fuelpump a new wiring.. the stock wiring is terribly undersized and further limiting the fuel pumps high load capabilities.

Hi, the 2nd Gen MAP Sensor flatlines at 1,3 bar i. e. 18 PSi indeed. Unfortunately due to its non linear behaviour close to its measurement margins it becomes rather unprecise above 1.2 bar. The 3rd Gen MAP Sensor reads up to 1,7 bar precisely and is a PnP replacement. If you are going to use the ST205 Basemap, you have three choices: either you recalibrate the MAP Sensor in the Link software (as it is preset to 3rd Gen...) or you simply swap your sensor to either the Gen3 module or a generic GM / Delphi / Whatever. Anyway, the ST205 map works quite well with the 2nd Gen, although AFRs are rather out of place due to the significant VE differences between stock 2nd Gen and stock 3rd Gen but still good enough to get your engine running and limping to the dyno. Regarding IAT just be sure to buy an open element aka fast response IAT sensor. Resistance / temperature calibration for those sensors is widely available. Most interestingly, the 2nd Gen AFM has an open element sensor while the IAT sensor of the 3rd Gen 3SGTE is a closed element sensor with horribly laggy response...

Is there any way to set up an auxilary output so that you have lets say a pressure -> voltage dependant table you could use to drive... lets say a stepper boost gauge instead of its original sensor which puts out a 0-5V signal ... or at least would if ... lets say 'someone' had not broken off the connection nipple for the boost pressure line....

The Link has two different settings for closed loop lambda, stoich and auto. As far as I figured out in stoich mode the link expects a voltage jump around 14.7:1 AFR e. g. a generic narrowband sensor, whereas in auto mode a linear voltage is used and any AFR can be held via closed loop compensation. Which brand of Wideband sensor do you use? Some of them (like the innovate LC-1) can be configured to simulate narrowband behaviour at any desired afr...

I got SARD/Denso 850's running in my engine, they are technically similar (actually SARD takes Nippondenso injectors, flowtests them and sells them...). Lag times are: SARD/Denso 850cc 16v = 0.568 14v = 0.768 12v = 1.048 10v = 1.408 8v = 2.008 6v = 2.840 Average lagtime under operating parameters (slightly lower than 14V since there is a current induced voltage drop at the injectors...) is 0.85ms, thats a value given by SARD which you would use if you had an ECU without voltage compensation like the EManage Ultimate.

Ok, I am getting rather satisfying logs with another laptop and all the fancy graphics stuff disabled @ 14Hz. Internal logging works well @ 20Hz too, although I'd be really happy to see an option for manual log channel selection in future updates as I do not need many of the logged parameters while others are missing. What I meant with the logger stopping is: if I start PC Logging and switch to a screen where no datalog view (either Navigation, Parameter List XY Plot or else) is opened, no logs are being made...