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Ford modular 4.6l 3-valve vct (variable cam timing)


Guest |167|
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Guest |167|

But then the engine will not be runned sequental.

Are the Ford Duratec and Ford Ba xr6 all different from this Mustang engine?

Any chance of getting support for this system implemented in the software?

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest |167|

Th engine started on the Ford Duratec trigger. E-throttle and everything works perfect.

But I had to set the master fuel value to 36 to get the fuelling right. I've never seen that high figures before, so I think thats a bit odd. The fuel pressure is at 55psi, and the rest of the fuel system seams ok.

Can you please get an update in the software to make the vtc on the other head work?

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It is not completely unusual to have a high master but 36 is getting up there. If the injectors are just very small, then this can happen. I would like you to check that each injector is firing once per engine cycle and that every injector is firing. This will need to be done on a scope in relation to the trigger sensors. I would like to get some accurate triggering information for this engine to add a trigger pattern and VVT control. Is it possible to degree this engine out to get all the information? The cam test function can also be used to determine the cam teeth positions.

Regards

Ashley Duncan

Vi-PEC Engineer

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Guest |167|

The engine is extremely difficult to start. It's almost like it just hits the correct sync some if the times it cranks. Could this be the case? I have to tow it to get it started.

I tried the cam test, and got 289 degrees from the left cam and 286 from the right cam. But the error counter is counting on both sides.

I don't have any scope available, but I could probably hook a injector output up on a digital input and compare the frequency with the rpm, or am I thinking wrong about this? But the engine is runned with sequental injection, so I really don't see how the injectors could be firing less then once per engine cycle. All injectors/coils are firing.

I have attached the map I have been using, if that will be of any interest. I really apreciate all help with this, as I don't think there's much more for me to do.

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The reason it may not start could be to do with incorrect trigger arming thresholds. If the sync signal is not high enough to meet the arming threshold then higher RPM will be needed to make the signal larger. You will need to scope the signals and measure their amplitude to set up the arming voltage tables correctly.

Once started does the engine run properly? Does it have correct AFR? I cant see your map attached. When it is running, what are the fuel table numbers and injector pulse widths? We need to ensure they are not too big.

As for the getting the cams running, the ECU does not have support for that engine. It will need to be added. To do this we need to know the exact angle that all crank and cam teeth pass the sensors. This must be done with the cams in their sprung back (natural) position. The cam test function can be used to get the angles that the cam teeth occur at. It can be very tricky to get an engine running when there is no trigger decoding support and accuracy of information is essential. Most of the time it is required that a degree wheel be used and the motor rotated through 720 degrees starting at TDC no 1 and all crank and cam tooth locations recorded.

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Guest |167|

Ashley

The engine runnes well when it first starts and is hot yes. I only have a wideband on the cylinders 1-2-3-4 (right bank), but the afr's are fine there. Will hook up another wideband on the other side as well.

But even when it's hot, it can be hard to start again with the starter. I have lowered the trigger thresholds, and it get's a steady trigger/rpm signl when cranking so don't think thats the problem. I can try to start two times, and it's completety dead, but the third time it start right away.

I can probably dial in the degrees of each timing event with a degree wheel. The cam triggers are no problem to get access to, but the crank is worse to access. Do you need to know where the missing tooth is on the crank? If I do this, how much time do you need to make the new pattern and send me the new firmware/software? The time is starting to run out, so I'm also thinking about removing all but one cam tooth, and mount a lock kit on the cam timing. But if i't won't take to long to get the software updated that would of course be the best.

I tried the trigger scope, but thats not supported on this ecu.

There should have be an option in the ecu to run this setup (all 8 ign/inj outputs in use) as wastespark/multigroup. Then I could have runned the engine using just the crank trigger and no sync without having to rewire the whole engine.

As mentioned in my last post, the cam test gave me the values 289 on left and 286 on the right. I tried to attach the map again, and also a screenshot showing the fuel pulsewidth on steady idle. The injectors should be 41lb.

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Can you do the cam angle test as Ashley asks. To do the test, select more then four teeth for the test. Five or six will do. Save the map while running the test. To do this press F2 and save the map to a new file name. Next run the test and press F2 again while the engine is running. Send me the map.

Ray.

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Guest |167|

I have checked the cam timing with a degree wheel and recorded the angles. I have not found the angle of the missing tooth on the crank. Will you need this as well?

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Can you also do the cam angle test for both cams and save them to separate maps. Name them something like CamTestLH and CamTestRH. This will give us all the information (including the crank missing tooth position). We can then check it against you degree values.

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Guest |167|

I have now done the cam tests. I'm not sure that the right cam test did get any info, as the cam position did not show any value on this cam. (This cam gets the error "extra pulses" in runtime values)

I hope this is enough info to make this work. The engine started on the starter today, after I set the trigger thresholds as specified for the Ford Duratec. It runs ok, but the master is still at 33. This gives an effective pulsewidth of 1,8ms. Does this sound wrong on 440cc injectors?

I noticed that I had 45 errors on the trigger error counter after the engine had been running for 10 minutes. I hope this will be fixed when I get the correct trigger setup.

Left cam:

http://www.efmotor.no/download/cam-test-left-8teeth.pcl

Right cam:

http://www.efmotor.no/download/cam-test ... 8teeth.pcl

I also did a test with 5 teeth on the left cam.

http://www.efmotor.no/download/cam-test-left-5teeth.pcl

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I will try to add some trigger decoding today. I would be a lot better off I think if I knew roughly where the gap was in relation to the 0 degrees of your cam pulses. However, if it runs on the durtech trigger mode, then I will uses that as the basis first. I have quite a lot on today so will try to get it done ASPA...

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Guest |167|

The downloads work if you copy the address, but not if you click the link. But I have fixed them now.

Or did you meam that you got them downloaded, but the information in them was useless?

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I have written trigger decoding and VVT control firmware for this engine. I sent a pdf to Ray this morning to pass on to you showing the teeth positions I have used. I need some more accurate information. I need to know exactly where the gap is on the crank in relation to TDC no 1. This is very important as the trigger pattern that I worked out using your files has the potential for problems which makes me a bit worried. The most important information I need right now is:

At what crankshaft position does the tooth after the gap line up with the sensor? You can work this out with a degree wheel or even with the knowledge that each tooth is ten degrees apart.

Also, are the cam tooth positions you showed in your diagram relative to TDC no 1 (ie 0 = TDC 1)?

As soon as I have this I will send some firmware for testing.

Regards

Ashley Duncan

Vi-PEC Engineer

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Guest |167|

I will try to find the missing tooth position for you tonight.

When you say line up, where would that place the tooth relative to the sensor?

- The leading edge of the tooth at the center of the sensor?

- The center of the tooth at the center of the sensor?

- The trailing edge of the tooth at the center of the sensor?

I attached a picture in an earlier post showing the position at wich I have recorded the angles for the cam teeth. Is this correct?

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