Launch control and DI

[Paschalis]

Hi all

Managed to make the 4efte with the DI2 to have the speed in kph correctly read, so now what is the simplest way to have launch control enabled? Is it supposed to have it always on as state and have  the table back to normal rpm limit after lets says 60km/h? Because if I set it with DI2 it never gets armed.

Also how am I supposed to set the DI2? For the test purpose only just to check it picks up speed I ve set it as GP speed, but in the launch table it gives something as non driven wheel speed... 

Thanks

[Adamw]

You cant use a GP speed as non driven wheel speed.  Change your DI2 function to one of the wheel speeds - say LF wheel speed.

The go to the chassis and Body folder, speed sources, and set non driven wheel speed source to LF wheel.

[Paschalis]

33 minutes ago, Adamw said:

You cant use a GP speed as non driven wheel speed.  Change your DI2 function to one of the wheel speeds - say LF wheel speed.

The go to the chassis and Body folder, speed sources, and set non driven wheel speed source to LF wheel.

Finally got that after reading the help file and going to pclink again, so "Always On" is the way to go? Or else 2nd way is to assign a 3rd DI3 digital using it like a switch and then use the DI2 as speed input?

Only problem this way is that my speed signal is from the tacho, so when spinning occurs it will maybe disarm the Launch if it overruns the 60km/h, correct?

[Adamw]

Usually best to have and arming switch or another option is to use a virtual aux.  

 

1 hour ago, Paschalis said:

Only problem this way is that my speed signal is from the tacho, so when spinning occurs it will maybe disarm the Launch if it overruns the 60km/h, correct?

Yes, for speed base launch control this is why non-driven wheel speed is suggested.  

 

[Paschalis]

On 10/23/2020 at 12:47 AM, Adamw said:

Usually best to have and arming switch or another option is to use a virtual aux.  

 

Yes, for speed base launch control this is why non-driven wheel speed is suggested.  

 

So how to set the virtual aux? What condition to use?

And concerning the non driven wheel, how can I get a speed signal from there? From the abs sensor wire? Cut it of and use its signal? It s an old 99 model corolla, no canbus, image attached.

 

[Adamw]

It is really up to you to tune it to acheive what you want.  I dont know what type of racing you are doing or anything.  Circuit racers often have a non-driven wheel speed based launch strategy.  Jet skis and boats often use a timer strategy.  Drag racers with big tires will often just have a fixed limit while the clutch or transbrake is engaged. 

It is better to use a virtual aux to enable it rather than setting it to "always on" as when it is always on your closed loop lambda and knock control will be disabled.   A common virtual aux condition may be something like TP>50% and wheel speed <60KPH.

For that ABS sensor you would need to remove some teeth as the frequency will be too high due to the high tooth count.  About 20 teeth usually works well.  You may be able to grind off every 2nd tooth or something similar.

[Paschalis]

30 minutes ago, Adamw said:

It is really up to you to tune it to acheive what you want.  I dont know what type of racing you are doing or anything.  Circuit racers often have a non-driven wheel speed based launch strategy.  Jet skis and boats often use a timer strategy.  Drag racers with big tires will often just have a fixed limit while the clutch or transbrake is engaged. 

It is better to use a virtual aux to enable it rather than setting it to "always on" as when it is always on your closed loop lambda and knock control will be disabled.   A common virtual aux condition may be something like TP>50% and wheel speed <60KPH.

For that ABS sensor you would need to remove some teeth as the frequency will be too high due to the high tooth count.  About 20 teeth usually works well.  You may be able to grind off every 2nd tooth or something similar.

Just some street racing sometimes, nothing big and pro...it is just that anything new that I add I want it to be as good as I can with the help of Link ecu...this is why I ve updated my g3 to g4+ so as to go on with my cop conversion and sequential injection. Oh..didnt know about cll disable when launch on..so I ll take the way of the virtual aux most possibly, still use the wheel speed input from my tacho dial to set the boost control (although havent tested in open road yet, just saw it was reading nice in low speed on a jack) and I ll explore my options with the non driven wheel speed input, maybe an adapter to transform the signal so as not to modify the bearing. Or even do you propose a ready to be fitted and working wheel speed sensor so as to add it on the hub and not mess around with the abs sensor at all? 

[Confused]

I've used this Hall effect sensor to pick up on the heads of the wheel studs on the back of the hub on my non-driven wheel, as it was quite an open design, and they were easily accessible. I made up a small aluminium bracket to hold it in the right place. This gave me 4 pulses per revolution.

I did, however, notice that, as my driven wheel speed (picked up from the driveshaft-diff flange) had 3.7x the number of pulses per revolution, the "slip percentage" for traction control was growing with each pulse of the driven wheel, before being "reset" when the non-driven wheel speed pulse was received. To combat this, I've added some extra bolt heads to the back of the hubs, to give me 3x more pulses per revolution, which will recalculate the speed (and therefore slip percentage) more regularly. 

Edited December 20, 2021 by Confused
Fixing images

[Paschalis]

20 hours ago, Confused said:

I've used this Hall effect sensor to pick up on the heads of the wheel studs on the back of the hub on my non-driven wheel, as it was quite an open design, and they were easily accessible. I made up a small aluminium bracket to hold it in the right place. This gave me 4 pulses per revolution.

I did, however, notice that, as my driven wheel speed (picked up from the driveshaft-diff flange) had 3.7x the number of pulses per revolution, the "slip percentage" for traction control was growing with each pulse of the driven wheel, before being "reset" when the non-driven wheel speed pulse was received. To combat this, I've added some extra bolt heads to the back of the hubs, to give me 3x more pulses per revolution, which will recalculate the speed (and therefore slip percentage) more regularly. 

My tacho reads form the dial are very erratic, same moment reading 80kph hoes up to 100, so only use of this the launch control when reading 0 and little upwards. So no boost control combining speed for sure. Nice workaround, how did you connect this sensor you ve used to the ecu? I can see 4 cables.

 

On 10/23/2020 at 5:51 AM, Adamw said:

It is really up to you to tune it to acheive what you want.  I dont know what type of racing you are doing or anything.  Circuit racers often have a non-driven wheel speed based launch strategy.  Jet skis and boats often use a timer strategy.  Drag racers with big tires will often just have a fixed limit while the clutch or transbrake is engaged. 

It is better to use a virtual aux to enable it rather than setting it to "always on" as when it is always on your closed loop lambda and knock control will be disabled.   A common virtual aux condition may be something like TP>50% and wheel speed <60KPH.

For that ABS sensor you would need to remove some teeth as the frequency will be too high due to the high tooth count.  About 20 teeth usually works well.  You may be able to grind off every 2nd tooth or something similar.

Is there any ready to bolt on solution sensor to attach it in my non driven wheel or better make a 2nd hole in the hub to have it reading the abs hub again but using a divider tigether and make the full use of it directly in the ecu?  Ideally I could use a 3-cable hall abs sensor (so as to have stronger signal and also not needing vr to hall adapter) and a divider like this https://www.vems.com/vr-to-hall.html, correct? Or I got something wrong and with this divider I can use any kind of stock lets say Toyota abs sensor (kind of VR I think) since it also transforms the signal to HALL?

Thanks

[Confused]

It's 3 wire - 12v power, ground, and signal. This goes into a Digital Input on the ECU. Calibrate it (as per the help file), and have a nice accurate speed. The bracket took me about 15 minutes to fabricate.

[Paschalis]

On 10/24/2020 at 12:52 AM, Confused said:

It's 3 wire - 12v power, ground, and signal. This goes into a Digital Input on the ECU. Calibrate it (as per the help file), and have a nice accurate speed. The bracket took me about 15 minutes to fabricate.

So can I use this same sensor to have it reading the abs hub again and using a divider, my issue is that the bolts on the rear wheels are on the hub which in turn are in front of a protective cover, so even if I remove the cover, they can't be seen directly from behind.

 

[Confused]

Potentially, yes. I've got a friend who is modifying a non-ABS Mitsubishi FTO hub to take that sensor and pick up on an ABS ring.

But if you've got an ABS hub, have you got the original ABS sensor?

You just need any rotating part that is either ferrous (a magnet will stick to it) or that you can stick a magnet to. For example, you could stick magnets onto your CV joint casings.

[Paschalis]

9 minutes ago, Confused said:

Potentially, yes. I've got a friend who is modifying a non-ABS Mitsubishi FTO hub to take that sensor and pick up on an ABS ring.

But if you've got an ABS hub, have you got the original ABS sensor?

You just need any rotating part that is either ferrous (a magnet will stick to it) or that you can stick a magnet to. For example, you could stick magnets onto your CV joint casings.

Yes stock abs system is all there  I think it will be easier to drill a 2nd hole like the stock abs sensor hole and put an abs sensor or your proposed sensor to pickup the signal  the thing is with your sensor I need to find a divider for hall signal because the teeth are too many for digital input to accept, whereas for vr stock abs sensor there is already a vems one

https://www.vems.com/vr-to-hall.html

If I'm thinking correctly...I don't know!

[Paschalis]

On 10/24/2020 at 1:43 PM, Confused said:

Potentially, yes. I've got a friend who is modifying a non-ABS Mitsubishi FTO hub to take that sensor and pick up on an ABS ring.

But if you've got an ABS hub, have you got the original ABS sensor?

You just need any rotating part that is either ferrous (a magnet will stick to it) or that you can stick a magnet to. For example, you could stick magnets onto your CV joint casings.

I don't want to mess with the abs system at least for now that I have one more option, if this fails, then I ll try to "steal" signal from the abs sensor wire inside the car for the VEMS transformer and divider but maybe abs check light will come on this way.

The 4 bolts' heads were enough for this sensor to pickup the signal? I mean was it accurate from 0kph to low speeds? Because maybe it's easier to drill a smaller hole on the back of the metal cover around the disk just below the bottom part of the bearing, but will it be enough as a signal? Compared to the bigger hole needed to be drilled for normal abs sensor on the harder metal of the hub.

[Confused]

Here's a snip from one of my log files which shows some low speed.

The yellow line is from my 4 pulse per revolution, the purple from my prop-diff pickup. As you'll see, as soon as the rear detected movement, so did the front. By 15mph they were both practically identical, despite the rear having nearly 4x the resolution.

Whether that's enough for you, I can't say. I decided I wanted more pulses per revolution, so have made modifications to do so.

You probably could attach this sensor to the thin metal backing plate, it's fully threaded so you can adjust the depth accordingly.

[Paschalis]

 

On 10/25/2020 at 11:20 PM, Confused said:

Here's a snip from one of my log files which shows some low speed.

The yellow line is from my 4 pulse per revolution, the purple from my prop-diff pickup. As you'll see, as soon as the rear detected movement, so did the front. By 15mph they were both practically identical, despite the rear having nearly 4x the resolution.

Whether that's enough for you, I can't say. I decided I wanted more pulses per revolution, so have made modifications to do so.

You probably could attach this sensor to the thin metal backing plate, it's fully threaded so you can adjust the depth accordingly.

I ll order the sensor, wait for it to be delivered because here in Greece I don't think I can find such one, and I ll try your "recipe"...worst case will be to need more "revolutions", so maybe more bolt heads to be more precise. You also use traction control that's why you use the 2nd signal from the driven wheels as well, correct? So one more separate digital input? 

Also I guess waterproof, right? Because it's my everyday car:)

I ll check if it fits just on the red dot from behind the cover, or if there is still part of the hub there (photo taken from the web)

 

[Paschalis]

I hoped someone with a toyota, who "stole" the signal from the abs sensor would post here to tell us if the check light went on, but....no luck:(

[Confused]

Yes, I want to start using traction control, so that needs at least 2 speed inputs, so 2 Digital Inputs.

It is waterproof, been exposed to a lot of typical English weather, so lots of rain!

[Paschalis]

On 10/26/2020 at 12:00 AM, Confused said:

Yes, I want to start using traction control, so that needs at least 2 speed inputs, so 2 Digital Inputs.

It is waterproof, been exposed to a lot of typical English weather, so lots of rain!

My hub bearing is 6.5cm tall, so the head bolt is at lets say 6.2cm minus the 3cm of its length, can it detect head bolt that far of 3.5cm? Please check the photo. Maybe you made an adapter to get more length and get it closer to the head bolt?

 

 

[Confused]

It needs to be positioned a couple of mm away from the surface it is detecting. So, looks like you'll need to make up a bracket.

[Paschalis]

On 10/23/2020 at 5:51 AM, Adamw said:

It is really up to you to tune it to acheive what you want.  I dont know what type of racing you are doing or anything.  Circuit racers often have a non-driven wheel speed based launch strategy.  Jet skis and boats often use a timer strategy.  Drag racers with big tires will often just have a fixed limit while the clutch or transbrake is engaged. 

It is better to use a virtual aux to enable it rather than setting it to "always on" as when it is always on your closed loop lambda and knock control will be disabled.   A common virtual aux condition may be something like TP>50% and wheel speed <60KPH.

For that ABS sensor you would need to remove some teeth as the frequency will be too high due to the high tooth count.  About 20 teeth usually works well.  You may be able to grind off every 2nd tooth or something similar.

Now that today I ve achieved precise and correct wheel speed, let s get back to business:)

So I ll have my gears "learnt" tomorrow, also I maybe have my boost control from the ecu instead of having to push the greddy button on higher gears for full boost, although I dont know if I like the idea to always have full boost at high gears, I ll see about this(I know another DI to enable 2nd wastegate table, but then what's the point? ) ! Ecu doesnt always know the road ahead:) On the other hand if I ve read correctly boost control is able for better control of the solenoid to have faster spool in low gears but needs a lot of work I thing with the "stages"! We ll talk about this later:)

Now about launch control, done it with the virtual aux so tps>80% and speed=0 BUT isn't the case to make it have a progressive rpm limit at different speed? For example 4500rpm at 0, 5500 at 20, 6000 at 30....something like this? Can somebody give a hint for values for a turbo fwd car? It has lots of modes with advanced control, so kind of lost in there:) And it's a "pain for the car" to test all these settings!

It's going to be used in street racing so better traction is the goal here but also a little boost to come in earlier is welcome. I feel that 4500 or 5000 is the sweet spot having the experience of all these years streets racing and also. It s a normal street car, just highly tuned with around 300hp but without lsd.

Shall I upload my file?

Thanks

g4pcopnewdead&dwell.pclr