PC Link locking up/Disconnecting while engine running & No RS232 with G4x?

[koracing]

I have a customer with an MX5X that I tuned in August (so I know there is probably a firmware update or two required at this point) and I was having issues with the USB connection to the ecu locking up pretty frequently.  Trying different USB ports on my laptop had varying success with some seeming to work a little better than others (HP Proboook 650 G1), but ultimately once in a while the software would lock up and the only way to reconnect was to close the PC link program, and reopen it.  I changed the longer portion of the USB cable (did not change the part that connecs inside the ecu) and it seemed to be better but not solve the problem completely.  The customer since leaving has had a very difficult time connecting whenever the engine is running.  It is pretty much guaranteed that the software will lock up if the engine is started while connected to the ecu.  So while workable, this is far less than ideal.

Today the customer came by as I offered the possibility that a serial cable may provide a more stable connection.  I took the serial RS232 com cable and moved the CANSER cable on the board from the control unit to the CAN1/RS232 position on some bench test units for proof of basic communication concept before sending him on his way.  I tried with two different G4X plug ins and neither one would connect to the RS232 COM 1 port on my laptop.  I tried a USB to serial adapter and it also, unsurprisingly, would not connect to that either.   I pulled out a Xtreme G4+ I had on the shelf and it connected via serial without issue.  I then tried with a G4+ plug-in and it also connected without issue via RS232 serial.  I have tried the suggested 115200 baud rate as well as the slow connection radio off and on, as well as all the other baud rate options.

This leads me to believe that serial RS232 is not supported on the G4x?  I checked on a Xtreme G4x I have on the shelf as well and no communication via serial RS232.  

This may not even be a necessary step if updating the firmware solves the connection issue - which I will try when it is feasible to get the customer on Teamviewer to go through that process.  Is this an isolated issue or have others experienced similar communication problems?  I think I've had more issues on the G4+ losing connection or locking up typically than the G4x with the exception of this one unit.  

Any help or insight is appreciated.

[Adamw]

The RS232 comm port on the G4X is now a totally separate port from the PC connection, so it cant be used to connect to PC Link at this time.  

There are definitely some other users reporting similar connection issues with G4X to what you describe.  The engineers have been working hard on it for months trying to get to the bottom of it and some of the recent firmware updates have made improvements but I still dont think it is totally solved.  In some cases where they have been able to investigate they have found wiring issues and in others it seemed to be isolated a specific laptop so there has been no silver bullet yet.  It has been hard to diagnose as we havent been able to reproduce in-house. 

In the next PC Link release (release tentatively planned for next week) there is a totally new direct USB connection method that bypasses the virtual com port system altogether, and for the few people with problem connections that have tried it so far it has been encouraging.  I will PM you a link to try.

[Brad Burnett]

On 11/8/2020 at 3:06 AM, Adamw said:

In the next PC Link release (release tentatively planned for next week) there is a totally new direct USB connection method that bypasses the virtual com port system altogether, and for the few people with problem connections that have tried it so far it has been encouraging.  I will PM you a link to try.

Can you shoot me this link as well @Adamw???

[Septy]

On 11/8/2020 at 10:06 AM, Adamw said:

In the next PC Link release (release tentatively planned for next week) there is a totally new direct USB connection method that bypasses the virtual com port system altogether, and for the few people with problem connections that have tried it so far it has been encouraging.  I will PM you a link to try.

Hi Adam can you give me this link ? because every time when I start the engine the PClink it's locking up. Thanks  

[koracing]

Well just did a remote session with customer using the new USB direct beta firmware.  It worked better for sure - maybe a little better than 50/50 it would stay on and connected when starting the motor.  A very nice improvement for sure, but not perfect yet either.

[Sumbitchsubie]

Have two customers with G4X's and they are both experiencing the same problem, newest updated firmware that was released Feb 10th 2021. It does it on an Lenovo Ideapad AMD Ryzon 5, an old intel HP laptop, and my 2019 MacBook Pro, although it is somewhat better on my MacBook than theirs, it still disconnects repeatedly making it very frustrating to tune. 

Any advice? We've tried updating USB drivers on the ideapad, using ferrite's on the USB cable, verified all grounds are good and wiring is pinned correctly, what is going on?

[koracing]

Frankly I'm at the point that I don't think link is going to provide any kind of timely fix for this. 

Right now the best results I've had so far is with the ferrite beaded cable obtained from Link tech support and a Belkin brand 5 meter active extension cable.

[Sumbitchsubie]

On 2/20/2021 at 9:06 AM, koracing said:

Frankly I'm at the point that I don't think link is going to provide any kind of timely fix for this. 

Right now the best results I've had so far is with the ferrite beaded cable obtained from Link tech support and a Belkin brand 5 meter active extension cable.

Hey thanks for the advice, I’ll reach out to them to get that cable and try the active extension cable. Much appreciated fellow Oregonian! 

[kaptainballistik]

Jumping in to limit starting threads..

My 4x will disconnect when the car "starts" and (as long as comms is set to auto) will reconnect when the car stops running ( With intermittent reconnects). My laptop is re-detecting the comm port constantly. But only when the car is running. I'm going to try disconnecting the Alternator to make sure its not the issue.
 

Is the same issue that's being discussed here? (Its also an older Win7 Lenovo), I'll also add that it seems worse after the latest software update ( I haven't patched the firmware yet.... one thing at a time  )
 

Secondly, Is there a specific log paramater I can use to monitor if the ECU is disconnecting or the ECU is sending an overvoltage back to the USB on the laptop/Gone to error state? I'm currently trawling my Laptops event log to check why its always redetcting the ecu.

[Adamw]

Do the firmware update first as 6.19 uses a different comms method than earlier versions, which improves or solves problem comms in a lot of cases.  If still no joy once updated then contact [email protected], they will get a bit of info off you and may be able to offer some further advice.  

[Sumbitchsubie]

Update for my clients situation. We reached out to link and got the special cable provided by support, it helped but definitely did not resolve the issue. We notice that the issue happens even if the engine is not running and we do an ignition test, as soon as the coil fires it will disconnect. 
 

We also verified the main ECU power source wasn’t a problem and ran a fused wired directly from the battery for testing, same issue.

 

Such a bummer for my client. 
 

 

[kaptainballistik]

14 hours ago, Adamw said:

Do the firmware update first as 6.19 uses a different comms method than earlier versions, which improves or solves problem comms in a lot of cases.  If still no joy once updated then contact [email protected], they will get a bit of info off you and may be able to offer some further advice.  

Ok, I'll give that a shot and get back to you.

[koracing]

I'm putting the problem car in my shop back to a G4+ as my next test as trying to tune the vehicle I have here on the G4x even using internal logging has yielded massive trigger errors at mid RPM that were never present on the G4+.  

[fidler_bc]

Jumping on the thread to avoid starting more.  I'm having this same issue.  I understand I can log information in my ECU while driving the car (without my laptop connected) and download it later.  Every search I try for logging only shows me how to log while i'm connected, which I know.  Can someone please point me in the right direction?  ECU logging while i'm not connected...  I can probably figure out the rest.  Thanks in advance!

[koracing]

1 hour ago, fidler_bc said:

Jumping on the thread to avoid starting more.  I'm having this same issue.  I understand I can log information in my ECU while driving the car (without my laptop connected) and download it later.  Every search I try for logging only shows me how to log while i'm connected, which I know.  Can someone please point me in the right direction?  ECU logging while i'm not connected...  I can probably figure out the rest.  Thanks in advance!

Have you tried the help menu? lol.

Menu at the top Logging -> Logging Setup -> select the tab for "ECU Logging" and then you can set the parameters to log as well as control the conditions for when the internal logging will be active.

[fidler_bc]

haha So that's what they mean by "help"

 

Do i view these logs the same way as the PC logs?

 

 

[koracing]

5 hours ago, fidler_bc said:

haha So that's what they mean by "help"

 

Do i view these logs the same way as the PC logs?

 

 

If you have an internal log, you would go to the Logging -> ECU Log File Download -> Download All (or pick what you want to download).  It should give you a save dialog so you can choose where to save it.  After that, it should prompt you once you save the log to open it for viewing, but I find at least 50% of the time it doesn't actually open for viewing if you select yes.  You can still go to Logging -> Open Log File and open it to view if it doesn't pop up.

[Adamw]

8 hours ago, fidler_bc said:

So that's what they mean by "help"

Here is the page that explains it in the help file.  Click on it for full size view, or you can view it in PC link.  Happy to take suggestions if you think it isnt adequate:

 

[kaptainballistik]

On 3/8/2021 at 7:11 AM, Adamw said:

Do the firmware update first as 6.19 uses a different comms method than earlier versions, which improves or solves problem comms in a lot of cases.  If still no joy once updated then contact [email protected], they will get a bit of info off you and may be able to offer some further advice.  

Unfortunately no joy with the firmware update. Ill send a support email

[kaptainballistik]

It May be unrelated... But the issue also appears to be "worse" since iIve got DBW enabled..... Any specific logs to enable to check this?

[Sumbitchsubie]

Okay I think I’m onto something. My customer had a wiring specialties harness and they did not use a capacitor between the coil pack’s 12+ and head ground, we added a 1000uf one and now the ecu stays connected for much much longer! We just did a dyno session and over two hour span we only had it disconnect 3 times total, vs every few minutes. 

[TnF]

Was this fixed finally fully with new hardware revision?

[Lotussuper7]

I also have connection issues with my g4x, especially when trying to download logs from the ecu. Sometimes it downloads the log with no issues, and other times it crashes part way through, and disconnects the ecu. Tried everything I can think of, however it seems very random. Old Hp laptop running win xp offline. Running in slow mode seems to make it better for downloading logs, but very slow and not the greatest for normal operation. Hopefully this gets fixed.

Not sure if it's related, but I also have an small issue where the ecu sometimes does not come on when power is applied, and it takes turning the power of and on again, then it turnes on. It's not a major thing, as its obvious when it happens as the fuel pump doesn't prime, so you notice it strait away, but it would be nice if it didnt happen. Just thought I'd mention it incase it was related.

[Adamw]

Fuel pump not priming would not be related to comms, that could only be a bad connection/switch/relay somewhere.  

[Lotussuper7]

I didnt really think it would be related. 

When it happens, the ecu itself just doesn't power up at all. Im 99.9% sure that its getting power when this fault occurs, as I have tested the VCC of the ecu when in that state . I have read somewhere else in the forum another person having the same issue, (probably where I should have mentioned this). The ecu has never quit once powered up. And never failed to start when the laptop hasn't just been connected (its mostly connected recently as I have been tinkering) . Its not a big deal, as it only happens every so often, just an observation.

I will try and find the post on that users problem, if I can find it.

As for the connection issues, not sure about that one. I have tried different Baud rates, different com ports, manual port selection, and other port related settings, however, still have not found any that will reliably hold the connection when downloading logs. Running in slow mode seems to work, however, goes slower than real time, and is a real pain, and that's only for small logs, I cant Imagine how long it would take for big logs. When running out of slow mode, I can sometimes get the logs to download quick and easy, but its hit and miss.

So, in a way I think you are on the right track with it being a relay, but its not (at least in my case) the fuel pump relay, My symptoms would indicate an internal relay (circuit) in the ecu not turning on. I'm not saying that is definitely the problem, however, the symptoms would match. The fuel pump in my case simply does not turn on, because the ecu doesn't come on. As I say, it only happens infrequently, and turning the ignition on and off has always seen it come alive on the second go.