Camal Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 Really thought here would be the place to go to to get some sort of assistance, apparently I get more questions asked of me ,on an ecu that 1 has a lot of bugs in the software and 2 since the release of the X no one seems to care which way you go from there if you have a earlier device , I sent my cal file ,my trigger scope and all I get is "don't understand if it's a question you are asking" yes I am asking why isn't my vehicle starting I've done a ton of settings and sent pictures just to give as much transparency towards my issues ,yet I get almost " by the book answers" ,guess I will join the line of the unhappy customer and "never again" with this brand ,when I built my car and installed this ecu ,it was the same thing ,guessing to figure out what works and what doesn't,and now with the motorcycle it's the same thing,worry not ,your brand has it coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastegate Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 Personally I think Adam and the team does a wonderful job of helping people get their shittas running. In fact I've seen a number of times Adam (sorry to single you out) has gone above and beyond to help. You have to remember that these guys (non gender version) make and support the ECU. Getting the engine and systems working with the ECU comes down to who is putting in the numbers into the ECU. It's not on Link to get it running and tuned for you. Some people keep bring up this whole thing about them feel abandoned on G4+. It's EOL, new version now with better features and faster CPU. It would be like complaining to *insert brand* management that a 10 year old laptop can't do Machine Learning or run multiple VMs. I was a little bit on the same thought when the G4X was released. But then you look at the features of the G4X and realise it's better in so many ways. Nothing wrong with the G4+, the X is just more. I'm sorry you have had such a hard time with it. I spent 10 years in L1, L2 and L3 support before consulting for a multinational enterprise computer company, support is hard when you don't have the whole picture. You feel guilty about asking for more information, but what people don't understand is the more info you get, the better idea that support person has of fixing the issue first time for you. dx4picco and toddhar2003 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camal Posted November 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 I Understand your point but it isn't valid in my case ,If you are stating it's not on link to get the vehicle tuned then fine ....but not starting /running .... according to the user manual then something is not making sense ,the reason for support is because it's not doing what is expected and I don't think with all the info the user manual comes with it makes most users self taught have any difficulty.......now in my case I have an issue because things aren't working as they should,( mind you I have installed this same ecu in my car and it ran fine ,me and my basic knowledge got that done) so it is obvious if I'm reaching out for support and not getting what is expected I will react because it shows the issues I am having my basic knowledge can't go beyond here .but all that is different is the type of vehicle so the best person to go to is who you spoke of ,but with me sending pics,and cal file and trigy scope it's only someone who knows what will work best for my setup can guide me because what I had for it to work according to my setup does not function. All I am looking for is some one to say " ok the bike needs to be set at x,y,z because according to the cal and pics you sent and your description of what the bike is doing this is what is needed and it should fire up fine" that's it ,ain't nothing much to ask for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 I assume you are talking about this thread here: I look after the forum in mostly my own time, I try to get on here twice a day for half an hour so most posts get some sort of reply or a guide on the next steps to take within 12hrs. So my replies are usually pretty short and sweet and to the point. I dont give "by the book answers", I tell you what information is needed based on the symptoms to progress through a diagnosis. In your first post you mentioned there was no RPM showing which means the trigger signal doesnot match what the ECU is set to expect so I asked for a triggerscope and a copy of the tune. I would have solved the RPM problem that same day if you had followed my instruction and done the triggerscope. Instead of that you posted a series of irrelevant stuff over two days and 4 more posts before I got the triggerscope. Then you attached two further posts full of pictures of the trigger wheels and a whole lot of confusing requotes etc, stating that a wrench represents the sensor, but there wasnt really a question asked, or even an explanation of what the pictures were for. I never asked for pictures of the triggerwheel or sensor? In my last post I suggested you try some starting fluid as that would give some clues as to whether your short running problem was related to fuel or something else. You said you where going to do that but you have never posted the result so Im not sure how I can help further until you have confirmed that. Otherwise we are just shooting in the dark and it will take longer to solve. So my suggestion is to slow down, try to word your replies so that there is a clear question or statement of the problem, read my instructions carefully and reply with the info that is requested. Otherwise, if you want more direct help you can phone or email tech support for more instantaneous help. 9 hours ago, Camal said: on an ecu that 1 has a lot of bugs in the software What specific bug have you found? G4+ is pretty mature and stable now, there arent many major ones effecting a lot of users left. We are still releasing bug fixes for G4+ however so happy to take a look if you give more specific info. 9 hours ago, Camal said: and 2 since the release of the X no one seems to care which way you go from there if you have a earlier device We still support all users right back to our very first EMX ecu which is nearly 30years old now. Obviously we are not doing firmware updates for them anymore, but I dont think you will find better support for previous products anywhere. G4+ is still current and will be maintained for sometime yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camal Posted November 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 Ok let's start again .... Question... wouldn't your cal and log file say if the engine is receiving fuel according to battery compensation ,effective pulse width,and actual pulse width?...mind you the injector is new . Regarding bugs,why when the config is set to 1 cyl and ignition set to wasted spark as instructed ( even though you figure I am not following your instructions) the igniton driver turns off , I can't do a ignition test nor does the spark plugs fire at crank.... And second at the same single cyl config injector drivers get turned off when 1 tooth per TDC is chosen ( yes I know you said 1 tooth per TDC won't work without a cam pulse) but for my info I just wanted to know why it turns off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camal Posted November 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 With regards to the starter fluid instructions I found that null and void that's why I didn't bother to give a followup because at that point I felt as tho i was dumb ..... the stater fluid does exactly what the bike is doing but it's just not staying on as I expressed or explained initially and by the time of cranking my plug is wet with fuel so I know it's not a fuel issue and FYI starter fluid to find out if the issue is fuel related is a "by the book solution" Insteading of trying to make it seem as tho I was irrelevant and dumb not following instructions ,all that was needed is a simple can you send back your recent cal or log and let's if there is something there that is not correct , simple sorry to be an arse bit I'm upset son! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducie54 Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 Correct me if I have miss read but you were asked for a trigger scope file. Was that even done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregconboy158 Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 To jump in on this I've always felt the advice and guidance from the team (Adam) to be 2nd to none, I've always had the help and resolutions I've needed and would in turn recommend link to anyone. Ducie54, SchuKingR and hurtinit 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camal Posted November 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Ducie54 said: Correct me if I have miss read but you were asked for a trigger scope file. Was that even done? Yes it was done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducie54 Posted November 28, 2020 Report Share Posted November 28, 2020 35 minutes ago, Camal said: Yes it was done What was the out come in regards to the trigger pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted November 28, 2020 Report Share Posted November 28, 2020 10 hours ago, Camal said: With regards to the starter fluid instructions I found that null and void that's why I didn't bother to give a followup because at that point I felt as tho i was dumb ..... the stater fluid does exactly what the bike is doing but it's just not staying on as I expressed or explained initially and by the time of cranking my plug is wet with fuel so I know it's not a fuel issue and FYI starter fluid to find out if the issue is fuel related is a "by the book solution" An engine needs fuel, spark and compression to run. You said when it wont run the timing light still flashes, so that mostly eliminates spark as the problem. We can assume it has compression and is mechanically sound as you say it runs sometimes so we can cross that one off the list for now. So, the most obvious factor left is fuel. We can see in the log the ecu is commanding the injectors to fire, but this doesnt always mean there is fuel getting in to the combustion chamber. The commanded PW is very short in your log which is why I asked you to increase the master, not sure if you done that. I dont know what the injector size or the fuel pressure is in these bikes so I cant even guess how much PW it needs. But, there could also be any number of other fuel related problems that wont show in the log - for instance there may be no fuel pressure, or low voltage at the injectors, etc... The reason I asked you to do a test with starter fluid is it will quickly prove if it is a fuel problem or not and that gives you a direction to head based on the result of that test. The plugs being wet does not mean there is enough fuel for combustion - it just means there is no combustion. Camal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camal Posted November 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2020 12 hours ago, Ducie54 said: What was the out come in regards to the trigger pattern. I made it known to support ,that I have a 12-1 tooth setup , because it has 11 actual tooth and 1 missing and my understanding was the software won't accept odd numbers ,but I wasn't given a confirmation that the trig pattern was good and accepted and everything looks good there. But the reason for sending the trig at the time was because I stated that I wasn't getting engine speed ,however I later corrected that statement along with others eg. My map was reading wrong ,( because the wire wasn't properly crimp) and I had some settings that were not changed from a different cal file . So as I made corrections to what support said to do ,I would have expected a request for a second cal / log file ,as to verify I did what was asked and that everything looks good , After that request wasn't made I assumed that support was trying to recreate my situation , so to try and assist on my ends I sent ,two pics of what my trig setup looks like and what I did so far and what the bike engine is doing in accordance to what was put in the config file , " the bike would crank and combust a few times then halt from doing it ., The reason I did all that was because I was trying to be as transparent as possible with the vehicle at hand as I know because it doesn't have a cam sync makes it a bit more challenging to get things spot on , the reason for my rant is at one point I felt like I was a minority and it even made me more upset when support said to me I was incompetent in following instructions ( as tho I'm a child) over this period it's only one person showed interest in assisting over such a large forum probably that's how it's setup (idk). But anyways support responded again and I'm going to work at this again ,I like the ecu don't get me wrong ,I purchase it and I wired into my 4 cyl corolla 4agte 16/16 and I got it to run and boost etc etc , however I wanted to try it on my supermoto as that came with a burnt ecu . 4 hours ago, Adamw said: An engine needs fuel, spark and compression to run. You said when it wont run the timing light still flashes, so that mostly eliminates spark as the problem. We can assume it has compression and is mechanically sound as you say it runs sometimes so we can cross that one off the list for now. So, the most obvious factor left is fuel. We can see in the log the ecu is commanding the injectors to fire, but this doesnt always mean there is fuel getting in to the combustion chamber. The commanded PW is very short in your log which is why I asked you to increase the master, not sure if you done that. I dont know what the injector size or the fuel pressure is in these bikes so I cant even guess how much PW it needs. But, there could also be any number of other fuel related problems that wont show in the log - for instance there may be no fuel pressure, or low voltage at the injectors, etc... The reason I asked you to do a test with starter fluid is it will quickly prove if it is a fuel problem or not and that gives you a direction to head based on the result of that test. The plugs being wet does not mean there is enough fuel for combustion - it just means there is no combustion. Ok so today I did two things I just went and cranked the bike ,it bumped up twice to start and backfired then stopped I did the starter fluid it bumped up more and a massive backfire with flames shooting out of the exhaust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducie54 Posted November 28, 2020 Report Share Posted November 28, 2020 Could it be sparking on the exhaust stroke? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monsterbishi Posted November 28, 2020 Report Share Posted November 28, 2020 4 hours ago, Ducie54 said: Could it be sparking on the exhaust stroke? This would be my thought, if it's sparking, the timing is set and has fuel I'd pick it's trying to fire 360 degrees out of phase. I'd hazard it's one of the most common things that folk do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camal Posted November 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2020 14 hours ago, Adamw said: An engine needs fuel, spark and compression to run. You said when it wont run the timing light still flashes, so that mostly eliminates spark as the problem. We can assume it has compression and is mechanically sound as you say it runs sometimes so we can cross that one off the list for now. So, the most obvious factor left is fuel. We can see in the log the ecu is commanding the injectors to fire, but this doesnt always mean there is fuel getting in to the combustion chamber. The commanded PW is very short in your log which is why I asked you to increase the master, not sure if you done that. I dont know what the injector size or the fuel pressure is in these bikes so I cant even guess how much PW it needs. But, there could also be any number of other fuel related problems that wont show in the log - for instance there may be no fuel pressure, or low voltage at the injectors, etc... The reason I asked you to do a test with starter fluid is it will quickly prove if it is a fuel problem or not and that gives you a direction to head based on the result of that test. The plugs being wet does not mean there is enough fuel for combustion - it just means there is no combustion. Awesome !.....now I'm more a happy camper with explanations being sent from what you saw in the cal file and log ,ok progressing when I increase master fuel because I too thought fueling was an issue ,there was no combustion happening but the strong smell of fuel was evident with every exhaust stroke exiting the exhaust 4 hours ago, Monsterbishi said: This would be my thought, if it's sparking, the timing is set and has fuel I'd pick it's trying to fire 360 degrees out of phase. I'd hazard it's one of the most common things that folk do... That is correct , but what is confusing which bought me to this point is that it will not do this all the time and (2) on a random crank it will stumble on and fall out , this will happen two, three times and won't happen again ,not even the backfire , and another time a few stumbles and then a massive backfire . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monsterbishi Posted November 28, 2020 Report Share Posted November 28, 2020 45 minutes ago, Camal said: Awesome !.....now I'm more a happy camper with explanations being sent from what you saw in the cal file and log ,ok progressing when I increase master fuel because I too thought fueling was an issue ,there was no combustion happening but the strong smell of fuel was evident with every exhaust stroke exiting the exhaust That is correct , but what is confusing which bought me to this point is that it will not do this all the time and (2) on a random crank it will stumble on and fall out , this will happen two, three times and won't happen again ,not even the backfire , and another time a few stumbles and then a massive backfire . Have you tried adding/subtracting 360 degrees from the trigger offset? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camal Posted November 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 27 minutes ago, Monsterbishi said: Have you tried adding/subtracting 360 degrees from the trigger offset? No I have not my offset was at -170 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted November 29, 2020 Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 Can you attach your most recent tune. And a log of it cranking again. Camal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camal Posted November 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 bike cal that has bike coughin to start.pclr Just now, Camal said: bike cal that has bike coughin to start.pclr 162.06 kB · 0 downloads give me a few min ill send the log Just now, Camal said: bike cal that has bike coughin to start.pclr 162.06 kB · 0 downloads Just now, Adamw said: Can you attach your most recent tune. And a log of it cranking again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camal Posted November 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 Just now, Camal said: bike cal that has bike coughin to start.pclr give me a few min ill send the log Log 2020-11-28 8;34;47 am try to start.llg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camal Posted November 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 Just now, Camal said: Log 2020-11-28 8;34;47 am try to start.llg 400.02 kB · 0 downloads n that recent log starter fluid is also used ,i however noticed that i still have a ton of trig errors the only setting that doesnt give trigger errors are direct spark ignition and sequential fuel mode ,all other settings give trig errors ....please if you can give some clarification there would be much appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted November 29, 2020 Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 You dont have barely any fuel going in still. You master fuel is still only set to 2. Most likely it will need to be somewhere around 10-20. Also your fuel table just has a flat 7 in it. Typical fuel table numbers would be more like 30-100. Import the fuel table I have attached below. will be a closer starting point. And, as I have said earlier in your other post you need to increase the dwell, the MSD's dont work reliably with 1.0ms at low speeds. 2.0 would be the bare minimum I would use. The trigger errors are most likely due to the ecu having trouble detecting the missing tooth at uneven cranking speeds. It will probably improve as the tune gets better. Can you try changing the engine type to 2 stroke. Leave ignition as direct and fuel as sequential. This in theory will give you the same as 4 stroke with wasted spark(which seems to be a problem), so it will spark every TDC and give more reliable start up. You will get twice as much fuel so master will need to be half of whatever it needs in 4 stroke mode (probably something like 5-10ms is my guess). Fuel Table 1.lte Camal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camal Posted November 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 Just now, Adamw said: You dont have barely any fuel going in still. You master fuel is still only set to 2. Most likely it will need to be somewhere around 10-20. Also your fuel table just has a flat 7 in it. Typical fuel table numbers would be more like 30-100. Import the fuel table I have attached below. will be a closer starting point. And, as I have said earlier in your other post you need to increase the dwell, the MSD's dont work reliably with 1.0ms at low speeds. 2.0 would be the bare minimum I would use. The trigger errors are most likely due to the ecu having trouble detecting the missing tooth at uneven cranking speeds. It will probably improve as the tune gets better. Can you try changing the engine type to 2 stroke. Leave ignition as direct and fuel as sequential. This in theory will give you the same as 4 stroke with wasted spark(which seems to be a problem), so it will spark every TDC and give more reliable start up. You will get twice as much fuel so master will need to be half of whatever it needs in 4 stroke mode (probably something like 5-10ms is my guess). Fuel Table 1.lte1.64 kB · 0 downloads ok thanks for that info ,i actually did increase the dwell on the ignition to 3 which is max but on my log parameters it kept saying one , not until i changed it to duty cycle is when i saw like 14 and more ms dwell in my cranking log Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camal Posted November 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 good day adam , i did as you asked i will send you a log and cal file of the present set up , i can smell combustion , i am seeing puffs of smoke at some point in attempts at starting, no backfires , trig errors still, basically.... the engine still trying to catch to run but doesnt really hold it to stay running, im actually considering putting in a wideband lc1 for afr confirmation, but to do this il lhave to drill the manifold, let me know what you think.bike cal that has bike coughin to start.pclr Log 2020-11-28 6;37;28 pm attemp 2 @283deg offset.llg Log 2020-11-28 6;47;54 pm attempt 4.llg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camal Posted December 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2020 Ok ,@adamw guess you have not seen those files as yet or they probably don't make much sense but nevertheless I was adamant to still work at it ( as I did with the car) so I decided to do some research of my own with regard to how this bike trigger would work , now what I found out is that the dwell even tho I set it at 3 ms it was still registering 1 on the log parameter, second the trig offset according to theory should be 285dgre....yet all the start up logs I sent it was firing on the exhaust stroke , so I decide to remove degrees by lessening the tooth count and eventually I got the bike doing way better on cranks to start and the catch's were closer and consistent until it stayed on but only @WOT this was happening at 198degr offset so I then looked at my settings and made a switch on the dwell from ms to dutycyle and it fired right I was able to rev ,but i cant idle it will only stay on at 25% throttle, please advise if possible what can be done here regarding idle,so the settings so far are : single cylinder, 2 stroke,direct spark,duty cycle ,dwell @3.0ms 198dgr timing offset,0 on ign angle ,master fuel at 5ms sequential fuel mode. So just some final assistance with idle and I can send a cal that can me noted incase there is another person that may need your Assistance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.