Dean Posted December 11, 2020 Report Share Posted December 11, 2020 Main ECU relay continues to hold roughly 5.6V after key off. This keeps the other relays on. I haven’t checked for an Aux back feed yet. Before I draw up my wiring diagram, can I first ask if it’s bad for the relays to have 12v to pin 87, and the load to pin 30? (I’ve noticed I’ve done them all this way, if it’s not a problem it means I don’t have to wire them all again) Resistor protected relays Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loca5790 Posted December 12, 2020 Report Share Posted December 12, 2020 87 and pin 30 don't matter which direction they are wired. 86 and 85... one should be to 12v ignition source and the other ground. I'm assuming you are using the ecu to ground control the relays. How and what is wired into the ecu for inputs/outputs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Posted December 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2020 G4+ Fury 370Z - 1.5JZ engine 6x Bosch injectors 6x Yaris coils 350Z throttle body Mac valve boost controller Astra electric power steering Standard in-tank pump, 2x Bosch 044 external accusump and IC spray not installed but wiring is in place Falcon thermos Flex fuel sensor Speed sensor 1x front 1x rear DI switches controlling - start, launch, traction, boost, logging Oil, water, air temp MAP, Oil, fuel pressures I wired the whole car (body, dash, ecu/engine), it’s basically identical to my car which i also wired and have been using in competition for 4 years. PROBLEM: The car starts and runs fine, currently untuned. If I press the ‘START/STOP’ button to kill the car it stops like normal. If I kill the motor with the ignition switch, the engine turns off but there’s still roughly 5.6v going to the relays, and the pumps etc continue to run. All of the relay switch powers (86) are provided by one main relay. I was hoping when that relay was off, they’d all be off. I hope ive just missed something really simple. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Posted December 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2020 I just had a thought. This issue wasn’t there during all of the basic circuit testing (when only the pumps, ignition, injection, triggers were connected). Mac valve was one of the last circuits I completed, and testing that was kind of weird. The valve wasn’t clicking loudly (should it?). It was very very soft and only possible to hear if I cranked it up to 400hz or so where you could just hear it hum if you put your ear close to it. I don’t have the car with me, but I’m guessing I’ll need to disconnect all of the aux’s until I find the one backfeeding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koracing Posted December 12, 2020 Report Share Posted December 12, 2020 The MAC valve should have pretty audible clicking at 20-32Hz and 20-65% duty cycle. 400Hz would unlikley make any noise at all... Something doesn't seem right there. Dean 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loca5790 Posted December 13, 2020 Report Share Posted December 13, 2020 I'd put money on the mac valve just ran through this issue and it was wired correctly. Unplug it and the issue should go away. It is backfeeding into the aux circuit. It should audibly click at the lower frequencies. I'm guessing you will need to take the boost solenoid off of the ignition key on switch and move it to it's own relay triggered by enabled conditions in the link to ensure it is not powering down at the same time the link is. I also think that the state hold would work if you put a delay on the link to shut down after the boost solenoid de-energized. The issue is that the magnetic field collapse of the solenoid is enough to spike the ecu through the aux circuit on key down. I bet if you unplugged all your injectors the voltage spike would have no where to go and the issue would also not be present. It spikes solenoids that then creates magnetic fields that collapse and induces power. Dean 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Posted December 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2020 Thanks for the tips! UPDATE: Removing the MAC valve solves the problem. It behaved the same way with another MAC valve too so I must be facing the issue in the wiring you mention loca5790. (I am getting audible clicks from the MAC now too) It has at least stopped the fuel pumps from running after IGN off, but I have a feeling a couple of relays are still staying on. Should I also check the other devices on the same 12v just in case? Ethanol sensor, p/s solenoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loca5790 Posted December 13, 2020 Report Share Posted December 13, 2020 Nope it’s the Mac valve 100%. You can check to reassure yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Posted December 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2020 I should also mention the problem only occurs after the car has started and I turn off IGN. I can flick the IGN on and off otherwise without issue. 21 hours ago, loca5790 said: move it to it's own relay triggered by enabled conditions in the link to ensure it is not powering down at the same time the link is. Won’t it always power down at the same time as the ECU if I kill the car with the ignition switch? Unless the MACs own relay is switched to constant 12v (which would make it run when ECU is off because the AUXs go to ground), or I put it on its own physical switch. eg. if I trigger the MAC relay by RPM > 250rpm, that sorts out turning it on. But when I turn off the IGN, all of the relays and ECU will power down at the same time. At the moment I can press the stop button, and then turn off the IGN. That’s one way to power the ECU down last, but there are times when you just need to flick the IGN off. (NB: I don’t have this problem with another car that’s wired almost identically) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loca5790 Posted December 14, 2020 Report Share Posted December 14, 2020 I set mine up to only enable above 1500 rpm and 50% tps or when I turn launch mode active and a timer associated with it. That way it’s never on when I turn car off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted December 14, 2020 Report Share Posted December 14, 2020 You guys are barking up the wrong tree. The boost valve output isnt even activated until you are above RPM and MAP activation points in the boost control menu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Posted December 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2020 14 minutes ago, Adamw said: You guys are barking up the wrong tree. The boost valve output isnt even activated until you are above RPM and MAP activation points in the boost control menu. Yes, the ground trigger isn't activated but the 12v to the boost valve is always there with key on. And roughly 5.6V is staying on my relays with key off. Is my wiring above satisfactory? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loca5790 Posted December 14, 2020 Report Share Posted December 14, 2020 Yea it’s not active but the power is and it floats high so it denergizes on power down. The activation control has nothing to do with how it’s powered up or down but ground control. The problem is the voltage spike on key down as the solenoids magnetic field collapses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted December 14, 2020 Report Share Posted December 14, 2020 1 minute ago, loca5790 said: The problem is the voltage spike on key down as the solenoids magnetic field collapses. Where does this magnetic field come from when the solenoid is already off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loca5790 Posted December 14, 2020 Report Share Posted December 14, 2020 The solenoid is not off. When the relay switches on the solenoid is energized and held at 12v the ground signal also floats high from the aux output. I’ve directly measured it. The ecu is grounding out the control circuit to activate it. This is why I hinted to a simple allocation to allow it to be power controlled via the output selection on a high side driver would correct this issue in my post. The solenoid is milliamps and well within capability of controlling via ecu Look at the diagram in the help menu and the diagram here. When the ignition is turned on the relay for the boost I control is energized and thus 12volts is directly applied to the solenoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted December 14, 2020 Report Share Posted December 14, 2020 This is effectively what you have when the boost control RPM and MAP conditions are not meet. ie, the aux driver is open, there is 12V on both sides of the solenoid, therefore no current flow and no "magnetic field" to collapse. When you turn off the ignition, the 12V on the aux pull-up and the 12V on the other side of the boost solenoid will disappear so again you have no magnetic field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Posted December 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Adamw said: This is effectively what you have when the boost control RPM and MAP conditions are not meet. ie, the aux driver is open, there is 12V on both sides of the solenoid, therefore no current flow and no "magnetic field" to collapse. When you turn off the ignition, the 12V on the aux pull-up and the 12V on the other side of the boost solenoid will disappear so again you have no magnetic field. That's what I assumed too. Do you have any hints for what I can try with my issue? Should I check all of my wiring in case I accidentally have voltage going into an aux? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loca5790 Posted December 14, 2020 Report Share Posted December 14, 2020 17 minutes ago, Adamw said: This is effectively what you have when the boost control RPM and MAP conditions are not meet. ie, the aux driver is open, there is 12V on both sides of the solenoid, therefore no current flow and no "magnetic field" to collapse. When you turn off the ignition, the 12V on the aux pull-up and the 12V on the other side of the boost solenoid will disappear so again you have no magnetic field. What happens when the relay shuts down a millisecond after the ecu does? I thought there was fly back diodes in the aux circuits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben C Posted December 14, 2020 Report Share Posted December 14, 2020 area all of the relays the same? Are you 100% sure the pins are correctly wired? You may not be aware that there are 2 wiring configuration of relay pins that fit the same base........ IF you mixed up a relay that will explain your issue. the Mac valve cant magically created an energy loop out of nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducie54 Posted December 14, 2020 Report Share Posted December 14, 2020 One of your relays is not accidentally a changeover relay. Should be all 87 pins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben C Posted December 14, 2020 Report Share Posted December 14, 2020 both fit the same base. Stupidest design ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Posted December 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2020 The 10 main relays are OEX (non fused picture attached) 3 fuel pump relays are the fused ones. wired as follows - 87 - all 12v constant 30 - all load 85 - ign switched 12v 86 - ecu ground or earth I’ve tried 2 sets of relays for the 10 main ones. Different brands. Same problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Posted December 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2020 I’ll go through every circuit to see if I’ve made a mistake somewhere. The car runs and drives normally, and also turns off normally if I press the stop button before ign off. I’ll attach my relay panel if any one can spot anything and might also do a video of the issue when I get a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Posted December 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2020 IGN off - ECU off , no power to any relays except for the constant 12v to pin 87 I probe the ECU aux output with 12v (hope that doesn’t wreck it) and all the relays turn on and stay on. This is with the MAC valve unplugged as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused Posted December 14, 2020 Report Share Posted December 14, 2020 Try the same test, but remove one additional relay at a time from the board, until you find out which one stops it from happening. Then, add the others back one at a time. That should narrow it down to one smaller circuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.