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Air conditioner compressor load and idle up


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Can you explain why the engine RPM slows down so much before the AC clutch output turns on?  It looks like maybe the ecu is not controlling the clutch?  

The RPM falls about 300RPM (pink square) about 2 seconds before the AC clutch actually turns on (pink arrow)?  The problem is the extra AC throttle step isnt applied until the Inj 5 is active.

MhLzciQ.png

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16 hours ago, Adamw said:

ACクラッチ出力がオンになる前にエンジンRPMがそれほど遅くなる理由を説明できますか?多分ecuがクラッチを制御していないように見えますか?  

ACクラッチが実際にオンになる(ピンクの矢印)約2秒前にRPMが約300RPM(ピンクの四角)低下しますか?問題は、Inj5がアクティブになるまで追加のACスロットルステップが適用されないことです。

MhLzciQ.png

I checked and found that the AC clutch control wire on the factory ECU side was still connected.

It has been corrected to control the LINK ECU alone.

I have re-logged it again, please.

The engine is now stable, but when the air conditioner is switched off while the AC compressor is running, the idling speed drops dramatically.
It is better than before, but depending on the timing, the engine may stall.

 

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wgrJzbVjcwfXJ3xTTOPxA1Aa4kuRPJMC/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17SlkP-Q8WJELfj0MiBPPAIKHMPmf0jkn/view?usp=drivesdk

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Strange issue. Some of your settings for idle seem redundant, for example when you turn the AC request on the following things are happening:
 

- Idle base position table switching from 3.7% to 5.1%

- Engine Fan Offset adds + 1% 

- GP Idle Offset adds + 10% + 300RPM Idle Target

- AC Idle Up Offset adds +8% + 100RPM Idle Target

When AC request is turning on and off you have around 20% idle duty being added, which is crazy for ethrottle.

I can see you have set a maxmium idle clamp of 4.7% so the Ethrottle dosent go to 20%, but this combination of settings seems like it can be simplified. 

If I were in your position I would start again with basic idle settings, change AC Control to Basic so you don't have to worry about clutch delays and lockouts.

Spend some time dialing your idle base position target using Base Position target + AC offset, and get the engine to respond as you need with AC turning on & off with small changes. 

Once you have gotten reliable results like this, then turn AC control back to Full and continue tuning. 

If you cannot control AC & idle like you want to in basic mode, then maybe you have some other problem with wiring. Or maybe if the issues only occur whilst running in Full AC control, then that can be investigated further. 

 

One other thing I would change that is seperate to your AC control is your Idle Ignition Settings. 

image.png.a3ef8358498beda8eb9673f219d6ec79.png

Your ignition angle whilst idling is constantly changing from very low ignition angle to very high angle in a short space of time. This will not help with a stable idle in most cases. Reduce your idle ignition control proportional gain to something like 0.10 and tune this value until ignition angle is nice and smooth. 

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18 minutes ago, Adamw said:

アイドル設定の多くをより基本的な設定に戻しました。このマップを使用してログを作成できますか。これにより、何が起こっているのかをより正確に把握できます。  

27182750_LA400Kkurosiba20.pclx 429.23 kB・1ダウンロード

Good morning, sir.
I apologize for the early morning response on your day off.

I will get the logs and upload them as soon as possible.

Thank you very much.

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1 hour ago, Adamw said:

I have put many of your idle settings back to a more basic setup.  Can you do a log with this map, this will give me a better idea of what is going on.  

27182750_LA400Kkurosiba20.pclx 429.23 kB · 2 downloads

 

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tsW0xWKtrrVTOXNlc0PDUrgcXn4PpBAN/view?usp=drivesdk

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VXvoiCyT8XPjb2AKDeyYw06Nf2aG6L9-/view?usp=drivesdk

I logged it as soon as I could.

With the A/C off, the idle wobbles a bit and when I blip it, the rpm drop is so severe that it seems to stop.

With the A/C on, the car stalls completely.

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5 hours ago, Adamw said:

We still look a long way off but I have just made some small changes.  Can you do a log with this one.  

27182750_LA400Kkurosiba21.pclx 429.23 kB · 2 downloads

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sB7gLKkN9bq19sNI8gDJK0iaC7wsU29S/view?usp=drivesdk

Logged.
It was hunting right after starting the engine, but it settled down after a while.

There is almost no fluctuation when the air conditioner is turned on and off. It seems to be stable.

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For the start up rev & oscilation, try changing these in orange:

image.png.5247e8f08ade4a829e447da72e066e24.png

 

I think you could also try reducing the idle actuator integral gain further too.  This may improve the little oscilation you have when AC turns on/off.  Maybe try around 0.03

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On 4/18/2021 at 2:07 AM, 0x33 said:

Strange issue. Some of your settings for idle seem redundant, for example when you turn the AC request on the following things are happening:
 

- Idle base position table switching from 3.7% to 5.1%

- Engine Fan Offset adds + 1% 

- GP Idle Offset adds + 10% + 300RPM Idle Target

- AC Idle Up Offset adds +8% + 100RPM Idle Target

When AC request is turning on and off you have around 20% idle duty being added, which is crazy for ethrottle.

I can see you have set a maxmium idle clamp of 4.7% so the Ethrottle dosent go to 20%, but this combination of settings seems like it can be simplified. 

If I were in your position I would start again with basic idle settings, change AC Control to Basic so you don't have to worry about clutch delays and lockouts.

Spend some time dialing your idle base position target using Base Position target + AC offset, and get the engine to respond as you need with AC turning on & off with small changes. 

Once you have gotten reliable results like this, then turn AC control back to Full and continue tuning. 

If you cannot control AC & idle like you want to in basic mode, then maybe you have some other problem with wiring. Or maybe if the issues only occur whilst running in Full AC control, then that can be investigated further. 

 

One other thing I would change that is seperate to your AC control is your Idle Ignition Settings. 

image.png.a3ef8358498beda8eb9673f219d6ec79.png

Your ignition angle whilst idling is constantly changing from very low ignition angle to very high angle in a short space of time. This will not help with a stable idle in most cases. Reduce your idle ignition control proportional gain to something like 0.10 and tune this value until ignition angle is nice and smooth. 

Hello.
Thanks for the advice.

I followed your advice and tried to adjust the ignition timing gain, and the idling speed was indeed more stable when I reduced it.
I appreciate that I learned something.

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On 4/19/2021 at 6:54 AM, Adamw said:

For the start up rev & oscilation, try changing these in orange:

image.png.5247e8f08ade4a829e447da72e066e24.png

 

I think you could also try reducing the idle actuator integral gain further too.  This may improve the little oscilation you have when AC turns on/off.  Maybe try around 0.03

Logged again after the fix.

There is a symptom that the idling jumps up when the car is running with the air conditioner on and is about to stop.
After that, it seems to be fine.

 

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17AmM6lQaAcBK7uFW5BC2hQELum9B_8Ef/view?usp=drivesdk

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ql95Yf7F6Ns4cHq-bTrdJcO8fneGuu6z/view?usp=drivesdk

 

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It looks like it maybe the engine fan offset too big (the fan offset stays active for about 1.5 sec after the AC clutch turns off).  Try reducing that by about half and see if that helps.

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On 4/19/2021 at 6:56 PM, Adamw said:

エンジンのファンオフセットが大きすぎる可能性があります(ACクラッチがオフになった後、ファンオフセットは約1.5秒間アクティブのままです)。それを約半分に減らしてみて、それが役立つかどうかを確認してください。

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-XglfSqNTYSBNB3EIRGEkXEIpMpORyOT/view?usp=drivesdk

Good morning, sir.
Thanks to you, things seem to have finally settled down.

I tried to get the logs as a final confirmation.
Thank you very much for your help.
I can't thank you enough.

 

 

 

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